Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Population death rate question - rounding
Population death rate question - rounding |
Mon, 26 February 2007 17:38 |
|
|
I have the formula for calculating the death rate on a red/yellow world, but I don't understand the rounding.
Is it
a) Always round up to next 100?
b) Randomize chance of extra 100 based on fraction of 100 that was calculated?
c) Something that remembers when the last time it rounded up was?
For a concrete example, consider 5000 colonists on a -10% world. That would be 50 deaths/year. Does it actually kill
a) 100/year,
b) have a 50% chance of killing 100 each year,
c) go 100, 0,100, 0, etc.
Thanks in advance!
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | | |
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Mon, 26 February 2007 20:22 |
|
m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
|
Iconian wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 02:04 | I did a test on this using Battlesim, colonizing all the reds in the galaxy. This wasn't pop-drop tech trading, but from what I found, even on a -45% world, 100 pop should survive 24 years. On a -15% planet, they survived 98 years. I don't know about the formulas and such, but I can send the chart I made if anyone would like.
|
So, it would seem it is deterministic, and not random at all?
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Mon, 26 February 2007 21:16 |
|
|
Correct. IIRC, I read Stars keeps track of the population on a world right down to the individual. Which seems borne out by the results above.
Supposing deaths are rounded to the nearest individual, then after 98 years starting with 100 pop on a -15% world you would expect 1 person remaining (2 dead in first year with 1.5 rounded up, then 1 per year.)
If that was actually WP0 colonise, rather than a WP1, that would explain the 1 year/1 colonist discrepancy, as the colonisation year would actually be the 99th year.
This also demonstrates that it appears stars rounds the population UP to the nearest 100 for purposes of resources etc, not DOWN.
...
That 1 last colonist must be very lonely... Also very busy - not only does he get rounded up to display as 100 people, if he was part of a HP race, he would even be doing as much work as 2500 people! He also operates one factory and one mine all by himself! 3 resources from 1 colonist! Poor little thing probably dies of stress, not from poor hab.
If he was a late game low-divisor AR he could be even busier - he could produce roundup(sqrt(100*26/7))=20 resources all by himself! Uber-Colonist!
EDIT: Well... He is on a red, so actually that'd only be 5 resources... 20 if you shipped him to a 100% green
[Updated on: Mon, 26 February 2007 21:29] Report message to a moderator
|
|
| |
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Tue, 27 February 2007 02:24 |
|
|
Thanks for the details, but I'm still confused as to what this means for tech trading via a planet that is yellow/red for both players.
If you really can have less than 100 pop on the planet but it shows up as 100, then one should be able to tech trade on a yellow/red with the exact same numbers that you'd use for a green - except once in a long while you'd have to drop an extra 100.
E.g. say it's a -10% world
turn 0, waypoint 1, player 1 colonizes with 100.
turn 1, waypoint 0, player 2 invades with 200. Result pop 100.
turn 1, pop/grow die, one dies. 99 left (reported as 100).
turn 1, waypoint 1, player 1 invades with 200. Result pop 101 (reported as ?)
turn 2 waypoint 0, player 2 invades with 200. Result pop 99 (reported as 100).
turn 2, pop/grow die, one dies. 98 left (reported as 100).
turn 2, waypoint 1, player 1 invades with 200. Result pop 102 (reported as ?)
So, you could go 50 turns before player 2 would need to put an extra 100 down. Or does each sucessful invasion round off to an even 100? (In which case you'd never have to add extra.)
Now this has me wondering about even greens - if one player grows a little, even a single person, each time, then eventually they will have 200, and the next waypoint 1 invasion will fail. Again, only if sucessful invasions don't round off.
Is this known behavior?
Thanks!
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| |
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Tue, 27 February 2007 06:09 |
|
m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
|
gwellman wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 08:24 | Thanks for the details, but I'm still confused as to what this means for tech trading via a planet that is yellow/red for both players.
|
Well, yes, your example more or less jibes with my experience...
If the yellow is a bit too red (say, -10% or more) the 100 pop will certainly die before long, perhaps as soon as within 20 turns.
OTOH, if you use a green, the 100 pop will grow too, perhaps as much as another 100 in just 20 turns...
All of the above with regular popdrops, of course.
So, you gotta be careful, and if possible testbed beforehand, and even so, things with techtrading are scarcely deterministic anyway.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Tue, 27 February 2007 11:16 |
|
LEit | | Lt. Commander | Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003 Location: CT | |
|
My solution to avoid losing the colony is to drop 300 pop, if you're doing both waypoint 0 and waypoint 1 drops, the owner at the end of each turn should make sure there are only 100 pop on the surface. Then the waypoint 0 drops 300, leaving 200 (approximately), and then 100 may die off. Then the waypoint 1 drops 300, leaving 100 (although sometimes they end up with 200, and have to manually lift 100).
If either is IS or WM things get a little more complex, but not too bad for the IS cases:
IS and IS the waypoint 0 drops 400, leaving 200 on the ground, the waypoint 1 needs to drop 500.
IS and another PRT (non-WM) should have the IS doing waypoint 1 drops, the waypoint 0 dropper needs to drop 400.
I'm not sure about WM pop dropping, the 1.65 attacker bonus is complex to figure out and it needs testing before use, but this is what I think should happen. I've been proven wrong many times before, so test before you try:
IS and WM: WM drops 300 at waypoint 0, leaving 200, IS drops 300 at waypoint 1. The WM bonus might leave 300, which would mean the IS drop would kill the colony, I'd want to test this more before actually doing it. If that happens, the IS should drop 400, and will have to manually lift pop a lot of the time.
WM and WM: waypoint 0 drops 300 leaving 200, waypoint 1 drops 300, leaving 200.
WM and another PRT should have the WM doing waypoint 1 drops with 300 pop. (200 might be enough)
- LEitReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Tue, 27 February 2007 14:28 |
|
iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
|
Hi!
LEit wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 17:16 | ... the owner at the end of each turn should make sure there are only 100 pop on the surface.
|
Not necessary. The owner of the planet can "WP-0 by hand" lift ALL population (0 left), the other party drops "WP-0 by hand" 100, and the ground combat occurs with 100 survivors.
've done such a tech-trading with a 3-immune HE as a second party, so never lost a planet by pop dieing off.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Tue, 27 February 2007 14:32] Report message to a moderator
|
|
| | | |
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Thu, 01 March 2007 00:22 |
|
|
Hmm, although I think those saw tooths are not quite as real as they at first appear - because Stars is tracking the exact population at the colony, not by the 100.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
| |
Re: Population death rate question - rounding |
Thu, 01 March 2007 13:00 |
|
Iconian | | Officer Cadet 2nd Year | Messages: 233
Registered: January 2006 Location: Nevada, USA | |
|
Quote: | If someone loves the nano management pain then they (even 5% HE) can handcraft all over 25% hold colonies to grow ~200 pop more by hitting the tips of the pop-growth saw-tooth.
|
Yes, I used to do that. Now I just use a calculator and don't worry about the little randomness involved.
Yeah, bread too.
Don't Let the Stars! Fade AwayReport message to a moderator
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Sun Jun 16 10:21:44 EDT 2024
|