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Re: Known Cheats

Fri, 11 April 2014 04:48

m.a@stars

Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left

Since thoughts were asked for, I'll start by stating the obvious: Stars! is nowadays a pretty balanced game in that for every effective tactic there's an equivalent countertactic that takes similar effort and resources to deploy and use effectively. Cool

Chaff-sweeping would be a borderline case of that, since it lowers the cost of nullifying a rival's minefields. But it does so at a cost significantly higher than that of "allocating" mine damage. It also relies on the Order of Events as published and explained in the helpfile, not on a bug of the game's engine. Sherlock

Those thinking that a stopped fleet is a useless fleet should ask themselves what is then the benefit of a cheap trick that accomplishes nothing of real value? The answer is of course that it is not "nothing". A stopped but alive ship still gets in range to do something of value, like scanning, laying its own mines, sweeping enemy mines, or threatening a planet. And since many of these functions need to be done cheaply hence the need for a cheap trick to enable them. Hit over head

Now it's always been assumed that the "real" way to ensure a cheap fleet did the trick was sending several of them and hope some survived. For more expensive fleets there was chaff-sweeping or just plain absorbing the damage with sturdy designs. Of course these tactics had a cost, more or less directly related to the effort the defender(s) had put in the minefields themselves. Stopping a spy ship? Cheap if it was a cheap design, costlier for a sturdier ship or if several were sent. Stopping a cloaked heavy minelayer? Harder, even more if the "attacker" was careful and their designs of high quality. Stopping a half-baked warfleet? Not so easy, unless there was a costly network of overlapping minefields at the ready. Stopping a top-of-the-line warfleet with every trick of the book at its disposal? You better had something more than mines, then. See the trend? Fortune favored the prepared and those willing to spend enough to get their plan working. Whip

But there's a new trick, one that significantly alters the equation, and not in a balanced way. That's why so many start by saying a ban is unenforceable or too costly. When the alternative is throwing the game down the drains, there's no such thing as "too costly", and many players and hosts have proven it. Rolling Eyes

Then there's those who say it's a "new" or "more balancing" tactic. It's not new, as it doesn't enable anything that wasn't previously possible, and it is vastly unbalancing in that it renders an already weak minefield defense worthless. Confused

Now I hate minefields as much as everybody, but I don't see any reason to allow such tricks to proliferate, and every reason to ban them. Lurking

So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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[Message index]

		Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 12 February 2014 05:19
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 12 February 2014 09:39
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 18 February 2014 04:32
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 12 February 2014 09:45
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 18 February 2014 04:38
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 18 February 2014 06:36
		Re: Known Cheats By: craebild on Tue, 18 February 2014 12:27
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 12 February 2014 12:06
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 12 February 2014 12:17
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 12 February 2014 12:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 12 February 2014 13:13
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Thu, 13 February 2014 07:19
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 18 February 2014 20:45
		Re: Known Cheats By: Altruist on Thu, 20 February 2014 13:34
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 20 February 2014 17:19
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Fri, 21 February 2014 02:01
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 25 February 2014 05:52
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 25 February 2014 06:55
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 26 February 2014 14:05
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Wed, 26 February 2014 07:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 26 February 2014 14:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Wed, 26 February 2014 17:44
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 21 March 2014 08:08
		Re: Known Cheats By: Altruist on Fri, 21 February 2014 09:09
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 21 February 2014 11:09
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 25 February 2014 05:42
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 23 May 2014 05:18
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 23 May 2014 06:07
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 23 May 2014 06:49
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 23 May 2014 06:51
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 23 May 2014 07:07
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Fri, 23 May 2014 16:23
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 24 May 2014 15:18
		Re: Known Cheats By: Coyote on Thu, 10 April 2014 20:20
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Thu, 10 April 2014 21:04
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 April 2014 05:03
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 11 April 2014 13:28
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 11 April 2014 15:25
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 11 April 2014 16:33
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 11 April 2014 17:38
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 11 April 2014 22:18
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sat, 12 April 2014 02:07
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Sat, 12 April 2014 07:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 12 April 2014 16:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 12 April 2014 16:17
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 April 2014 16:02
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Sun, 13 April 2014 20:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Mon, 14 April 2014 13:54
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Mon, 14 April 2014 15:45
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 15 April 2014 04:48
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:11
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:25
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 18 April 2014 13:07
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Fri, 18 April 2014 19:57
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 19 April 2014 05:30
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 15 April 2014 00:03
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Tue, 15 April 2014 04:57
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 15 April 2014 06:42
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 13:05
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 17 April 2014 01:56
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:13
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 10 April 2014 21:36
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 April 2014 04:56
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 11 April 2014 02:08
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 April 2014 04:48
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 11 April 2014 10:06
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 11 April 2014 13:38
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 11 April 2014 16:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 15 April 2014 06:24
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 12:44
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:07
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:36
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 18 April 2014 05:45
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 13:26
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Tue, 15 April 2014 14:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 15 April 2014 18:02
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 12:56
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 13:08
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 13:30
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 13:47
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 14:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 15:13
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 15:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:15
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 16 April 2014 15:15
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 15:24
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:23
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Thu, 17 April 2014 06:11
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:38
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 16 April 2014 18:08
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 16 April 2014 20:15
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Thu, 17 April 2014 04:24
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:40
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Thu, 17 April 2014 22:55
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 11:58
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:01
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:06
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 12:55
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:49
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Thu, 17 April 2014 06:14
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 11:10
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Thu, 17 April 2014 11:58
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 13:04
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Thu, 17 April 2014 04:12
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 17 April 2014 05:03
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Thu, 17 April 2014 17:04
		Re: Known Cheats By: ccmaster on Thu, 17 April 2014 21:32
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 18 April 2014 11:08
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 18 April 2014 05:59
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 18 April 2014 06:51
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 18 April 2014 13:12
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 18 April 2014 13:16
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 18 April 2014 13:58
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 18 April 2014 16:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 19 April 2014 05:12
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sat, 19 April 2014 13:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sun, 20 April 2014 06:40
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sun, 20 April 2014 09:19
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sun, 20 April 2014 14:06
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Fri, 18 April 2014 21:56
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Sat, 19 April 2014 03:42
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Sat, 19 April 2014 19:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sun, 20 April 2014 06:42
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 19 April 2014 05:33
		. By: XAPBob on Sun, 20 April 2014 14:23
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Sun, 20 April 2014 15:02
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Sun, 20 April 2014 15:17
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Sun, 20 April 2014 17:45
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 22 April 2014 05:36
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sun, 20 April 2014 17:43
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Tue, 22 April 2014 17:41
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 22 May 2014 07:32
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Thu, 22 May 2014 15:17
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 22 May 2014 18:31
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 23 May 2014 06:54
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 23 May 2014 07:02
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 23 May 2014 07:10
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Fri, 23 May 2014 17:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 24 May 2014 15:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: dlrichert on Thu, 22 May 2014 16:31
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Thu, 22 May 2014 17:17
		Re: Known Cheats By: dlrichert on Sun, 25 May 2014 00:52
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Sun, 25 May 2014 06:30
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Mon, 26 May 2014 17:34
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11
		Re: Known Cheats By: dlrichert on Tue, 27 May 2014 02:40
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Tue, 27 May 2014 11:12
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 27 May 2014 11:32
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Tue, 27 May 2014 18:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Tue, 27 May 2014 12:33
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Wed, 28 May 2014 02:50
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 28 May 2014 06:35
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Wed, 28 May 2014 08:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Wed, 28 May 2014 14:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 28 May 2014 16:40
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 23 May 2014 05:04
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Sat, 24 May 2014 01:40
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Thu, 22 May 2014 16:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Mon, 26 May 2014 18:06
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Tue, 27 May 2014 21:52
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 28 May 2014 13:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Fri, 30 May 2014 07:10
		Re: Known Cheats By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 29 May 2014 08:16
		Re: Known Cheats By: Asmodai on Fri, 30 May 2014 05:15
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Fri, 30 May 2014 06:04
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 30 May 2014 12:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: Asmodai on Fri, 30 May 2014 08:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 30 May 2014 09:03
		Re: Known Cheats By: Asmodai on Fri, 30 May 2014 09:36
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 30 May 2014 11:50
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 30 May 2014 12:51
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Fri, 30 May 2014 18:41
		Re: Known Cheats By: nmid on Fri, 30 May 2014 18:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 31 May 2014 03:24
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Sat, 31 May 2014 09:39
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sat, 31 May 2014 11:52
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Sat, 31 May 2014 20:31
		Re: Known Cheats By: mrvan on Sun, 01 June 2014 06:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: neilhoward on Sat, 31 May 2014 05:10
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sat, 31 May 2014 06:32
		Re: Known Cheats By: m.a@stars on Sat, 31 May 2014 14:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: Asmodai on Tue, 03 June 2014 09:16
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Tue, 03 June 2014 17:37
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Mon, 16 June 2014 16:21
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Mon, 16 June 2014 23:58
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Tue, 17 June 2014 02:50
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Wed, 18 June 2014 09:22
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 18 June 2014 10:00
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Wed, 18 June 2014 16:46
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Wed, 18 June 2014 17:34
		Re: Known Cheats By: Anonymous Coward on Fri, 20 June 2014 17:38
		Re: Known Cheats By: skoormit on Fri, 20 June 2014 20:03
		Re: Known Cheats By: XAPBob on Sat, 21 June 2014 02:32

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