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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Tue, 24 June 2008 15:48 |
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vonKreedon | | Lieutenant | Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003 Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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There are simply too many variables to baldly state that one will win over the other.
The most basic is how much time and space will each race have before having to switch over to a war economy. In a small galaxy with lots of races then a well played -f will likely win because the other two will be too busy building factories to be able compete when the -f comes at them with Weap10 DDs/CCs. OTOH, in a large galaxy with just a few races then the HP will likely win because of all the time and planets available to build factories and then fund research.
[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2008 15:49] Report message to a moderator
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Tue, 24 June 2008 19:53 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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In a small universe where conflict will be happening fast, -fs will walk over the others. In a larger universe, HGs are often the best because they're more powerful after 2450, and they're still capable of stomping HPs before they get up to speed. In a ridiculously uncrowded environment, like the one I'm hosting (5 players in a large packed) HPs and ARs start to come into the mix (in fact, I'm playing as a TT AR). They are viable in the second case though, you just need luck and diplomacy to protect yourself until you're invincible. (ARs can be considered the ultimate HP, due to the mineral fountain)
[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2008 19:54] Report message to a moderator
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Wed, 25 June 2008 18:57 |
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Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
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Quote: | ... ARs can be considered the ultimate HP, due to the mineral fountain
| I'd be vaguely more inclined to say ultimate -f or HG. Iirc, planetary res is usually closer to HG than HP, but with the -f advantage of no factory headaches. Also, my experience is that -f tends (I say tends) to have excess mins by about the time AR starts pulling plenty of mins and I've used excess -f mins to support other mineral greedy races in the past (not multiple races at the same time, the way AR can). Also, the couple of time I've played HP AND had excess minerals it really hasn't felt like AR at all - AR has a real mobility edge later in the game that HP lacks.
Just my observation.
Who is going to win?
HG is a pretty good all-rounder, -f and HP are a bit specialised. There are universe, game, diplomatic and racial traits to think about, amongst other things. Generally speaking I'd say HP is the least likely to win where there is decent player density.
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Thu, 26 June 2008 05:36 |
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Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 11:02 | I agree with you utterly there, they're very mobile and don't have min problems, but my point is that they're lategamers, like HP. On that point, would an AR therefore be good against an HP TT 1 in 21 CA?
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Sure, in tiny normal with the usual 200 pt CA penalty I'd have a crack at that.
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Thu, 26 June 2008 08:25 |
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Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 21:11 | What about in a large packed with 5 players, no BMM, no AccBBS, and no PPS? And no CA penalty?
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182 stars per player? Pointless.
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Thu, 26 June 2008 15:48 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 13:41 | What about in a large packed with 5 players, no BMM, no AccBBS, and no PPS? And no CA penalty?
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I suggest you to try the TT CA (19%PGR, HG econ, about 1-in-15 hab centered) once in a small packed uni. You'll be shocked at the sheer speed and amount of resources. If the "monster" test is over 25k resources at 2450, will such a CA beat it three to five times in 95% of testbeds. Now a question for you: what race can fight AMP and Armag Nubs with Jugg and HeavyBlaster BBs?
BR, Iztok
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Tue, 01 July 2008 18:03 |
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Soobie | | Officer Cadet 3rd Year | Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007 Location: Australia | |
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I think m9m is talking about a 5 player situation, not 1 on 1. CA should still win if he's good on the diplo.
But with 182 stars per player, the CA will probably have the choice of max tech and 100% hab on most planets before serious encounters commence or going hunting early. Obviously the preference is early hunting or you would go mad with boredom.
[Updated on: Tue, 01 July 2008 18:07] Report message to a moderator
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Thu, 03 July 2008 08:28 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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Ok, more extensive summary:
5 players, large packed, Farther positions, no special options. He's new to Stars, so am I, but I went to the trouble of reading strategy guides and practicing.
His race I would call noobtarded. He's a TT CA with expensive bio, and he made the mistake of telling everyone that. (The game is still in very early stages (~2405) btw.) I'm a TT nonimmune AR with 3.5 cheap including cheap bio, set up for complete hab late game. Given that it takes 16 years to get from one side of the galaxy to the other, I can safely say that there won't be much serious combat before 2440 (agreed?). AFAIK he took some rather idiotic race shoices like MA, so I should have the equivalent of at least 100 RW points over him anyway. I also have the advantage of never tiring of Stars micro .
1) Is it possible for me to take him without an ally, and
2) If he gangs up with a CA player with a nonretarded race (one of the others in the game, but still a beginner) will I be totally obliterated or would I have a chance?
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Thu, 03 July 2008 08:52 |
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Hi M9M ,
the Informations you give us are not real much so we could not answere your Questions real good . But I will try it :
1) To take out other players witout an ally is always possible, but with an ally it is much easier , special if you want to win the game not only to take out 1 player .
2) depend on the players and special on the race desine .
An AR could make it in this game , but it will be real hard you will fight later against double or tribble resources and of course better tech .
But if you could expand fast enouth you could do it , special with an ally .
ccmaster
PS : if you send me your race i could take a look at it , PM it if you want
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Re: F- Vs HP Vs HG who's gonna win? |
Fri, 04 July 2008 07:22 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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My race is in the TT AR thread in the AR forum, I think it's my second post.
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