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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Mon, 17 September 2012 22:55 |
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Mark Hewitt | | Master Chief Petty Officer | Messages: 105
Registered: June 2006 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada | |
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LittleEddie wrote on Mon, 17 September 2012 18:32RS is not an option! It's a must have.
You can question that as much as you want, but without RS, you are going to lose.
Hear, hear!
And -f is a subset of QS.
QS with factories usually means pop 1/1000, factories 12/8/x/3 or 4; or 1/2500 and 15/6/x/3, with mines 10/3/y, where x and y are around 17 or so. Mines have to be cheap and factories have to pay back their cost quickly, with 12/8 that's under 7 years and with 15/6 that's in 4 years. Techs are usually all exp, exp start at 3 (or 4 for JOAT), except Weapons is as cheap as the game allows.
With both QS -f and +f you send out a lot of scouts early, 10+, and grab as much real estate as possible. And you plan to hold on to it.
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Mon, 17 September 2012 23:12 |
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Mark Hewitt wrote on Tue, 18 September 2012 04:55LittleEddie wrote on Mon, 17 September 2012 18:32RS is not an option! It's a must have.
You can question that as much as you want, but without RS, you are going to lose.
Hear, hear!
Hehe, I do like RS and mostly I take it but I never knew I'd be doomed not taking it.
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Tue, 18 September 2012 01:54 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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http://www.starsfaq.com/articles/sru/art226.htm
"QS - Quick start races are a special type of HG race, best used in small and tiny universe. They take very inexpensive factory settings of seven or less. QS races typically have poorer maximum growth potential than a normal HG."
QS takes narrow hab to pay for the quick factories. As such, it's almost the opposite paradigm to -f. Both are fast, but they're fast in very different ways.
[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2012 02:13] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Tue, 18 September 2012 01:56 |
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I wouldn't necessarily say that you'd lose without RS, but I would say that it's easily worth 100 RW points.
[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2012 02:04] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Tue, 18 September 2012 06:16 |
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XAPBob | | Lt. Commander | Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012 | |
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Coyote wrote on Tue, 18 September 2012 01:56I wouldn't necessarily say that you'd lose without RS, but I would say that it's easily worth 100 RW points.
Where from?
And add in the extra research needed as well - so you need to find the 100 points for that, and either alot MORE economy, or more economy and points for a cheaper tech.
[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2012 06:17] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Tue, 18 September 2012 12:35 |
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Coyote wrote on Tue, 18 September 2012 07:56I wouldn't necessarily say that you'd lose without RS, but I would say that it's easily worth 100 RW points.
Luckily RS doesn't cost 100 pts but mostly +/- 10 to 20 pts depending on the number of chosen LRTs.
And I have to admit that I usually take it even with energy expensive. The first CC equipped with bazookas and 4 shields, even with the lowest shields, just looks so much better with RS. And armour is just too expensive and too heavy. The weight leads to 3 disadvantages:
* higher fuel usage
* moving first on the battle board and thus in danger of getting outmanoeuvred
* too heavy for gates (not really an IT-problem, though)
While shields are great: low cost, lowest weight, allows stacked shields, amd damage taken often enough is completly gone after the battle or at least a lot lower than without (stacked) shields.
Early on forts and especially docks rule for defense, they can fence off quite a lot (until fleets get bigger and even stations play only a minor role for defense). RS comes with a mixed blessing early on: absolutely great vs attacks with lasers but with a serious drawback vs torps. Torps are the Achilles' heel of forts and even docks have problems fencing off, let's say, 10 DD with beta-torps (especially when equipped with a RS-shield *grin). But for the fort/dock defense vs torps gets even more problematic with RS.
So, no doubt about RS being a great thing and usually I take it. But I can't remember a game of which I'd say that I had lost it without RS. And if RS would cost 100pts, I'd choose RS only in special cases and nolonger almost always.
Addon: I do like it to play with RS and energy expensive but when other players take it cheap. Just looked it up: My last game I finished with en9 (3 starting techs, 5 conquered, 1 researched).
[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2012 12:44] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Tue, 18 September 2012 18:38 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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[XAPBob wrote on Wed, 19 September 2012 00:32]With CW cheap, rest expensive I'm not researching shields early - I start with the cow, that's it for a long while (of course that is excluding trade/conquest of tech).
RS do look good - with protection, assuming they're not completely disabled in a given round, all through a fight.
But are they worth 100 points on the hab page? And another line of research (or just stick with Cows?)? And losing armour (when I'll have higher armours pretty fast, and no trouble gating it.
What are you going to put that armour *on*?
(Also, IIRC RS shields continue to regenerate even if they're broken.)
[Updated on: Tue, 18 September 2012 18:39] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Wed, 19 September 2012 06:15 |
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magic9mushroom | | Commander | Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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Well, basically, what are you going to be attacking with early? Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers. Only Destroyers have a dedicated armour slot, and if you're using beams (which, pre-Jihads, you are) it's still going to slow them down unacceptably if you use it. And if you're not using armour slabs, then RS is an extra 40% shields for no downside. For cruisers and especially frigates, that's also known as "frigging awesome".
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Re: -f benchmarks (IT or ithers) |
Wed, 19 September 2012 13:51 |
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[XAP[mines:] 10/3/10
To lower the number of mines isn't a good idea. 13 was on the edge. 10 results in mineral shortage early on... probably you will have problems to build bombers.
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