Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp.
A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Fri, 13 May 2005 05:03 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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Hi,
Has anyone ever seen this beastie?
Quote: | There isn't enough fuel available at Space (xcoord, ycoord) to allow FuelMizerPrivateer #x to get to the next waypoint. Your fleet will wait for more fuel. You need about 4mg more fuel.
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This happened in a force-generated game, where my ship (loaded) had about 65mg fuel left, lacking a few drops to complete a W6 hop. Almost all other ships got their "fuel has run out, dropping to w4" messages and coasted along, but this one just stopped and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited, and waited for about 80 turns.
This is almost as bad and unfathomable as the infamous "merge with moving target" bug that simply makes the target fleet stop dead in its tracks until the pursuer arrives.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Sat, 18 March 2006 07:50 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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wumpus wrote on Sat, 18 March 2006 13:20 |
m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 13 May 2005 11:03 | Hi,
Has anyone ever seen this beastie?
Quote: | There isn't enough fuel available at Space (xcoord, ycoord) to allow FuelMizerPrivateer #x to get to the next waypoint. Your fleet will wait for more fuel. You need about 4mg more fuel.
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Hmm, no idea... is it reproducable? And do you still have an M file with it? I'd like message for my "collection", if nothing else ,-)
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I don't know how (or if) it can be reproduced, as I cannot even understand what triggers it, or in fact, what it means.
Trouble is, it is in the middle of a 100-yr-forced-gen m file of almost 3 megs.
Now that multi-turn splitting tool of yours would be very handy.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Sat, 18 March 2006 09:52 |
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Perhaps something to do with orders? You may have had load orders somewheres and then after adding waypoints the load orders were carried over to the new location (space). From help file:
Quote: | Load Optimal
Transport order. Load no more fuel than you need to reach the next waypoint. This option can only calculate the
amount of fuel required for one waypoint. It will not attempt to load enough fuel to get you beyond your next waypoint.
If each of your waypoints has a fuel reserve you can give Load Optimal Fuel orders at each waypoint to minimize the
fuel useage for the whole journey.
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[Updated on: Sat, 18 March 2006 10:02] Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Sat, 18 March 2006 13:31 |
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wumpus | | | Messages: 114
Registered: September 2004 | |
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m.a@stars wrote on Sat, 18 March 2006 13:50 |
wumpus wrote on Sat, 18 March 2006 13:20 |
[email | m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Fri, 13 May 2005 11:03]Hi,
Has anyone ever seen this beastie?
Quote: | There isn't enough fuel available at Space (xcoord, ycoord) to allow FuelMizerPrivateer #x to get to the next waypoint. Your fleet will wait for more fuel. You need about 4mg more fuel.
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Hmm, no idea... is it reproducable? And do you still have an M file with it? I'd like message for my "collection", if nothing else ,-)
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I don't know how (or if) it can be reproduced, as I cannot even understand what triggers it, or in fact, what it means.
Trouble is, it is in the middle of a 100-yr-forced-gen m file of almost 3 megs.
Now that multi-turn splitting tool of yours would be very handy.
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Oh, if you have the M file, just send it to me as is It'll be easy to recognise - it'll be the bit of the X file where my program goes "HEY LOOK, I FOUND SOMETHING STRANGE!"
Michael "Wumpus" Zinn
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Mon, 20 March 2006 12:34 |
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wumpus | | | Messages: 114
Registered: September 2004 | |
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[email | m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Mon, 20 March 2006 17:10]wumpus wrote on Sun, 19 March 2006 20:46 | Err... I wasn't trying to work out *why* it happened; I'm just filing that under "stars! weirdness", with the presumed semi-explanation being what I mentioned earlier in the thread. I just wanted an M file with the exotic message in it so I could add it to my "messages" data file
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I see. But perhaps you can glean enough info to at least hint what to do to avoid it in the future?
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Well... not from this ;P It's only clear that what I said previously is true; the "load optimal fuel" somehow wound up as a WP0 order in deep space, and from there on in you were screwed, since the circumstances dictated that you were stuck with an unfulfillable WP0 order which just sat there. The last part is not a bug - the fact that it became a WP0 order in the first place *might* be a bug, hmm.
With the *starting* M and X files I might be able to discover something interesting, but I have my doubts it would be all that illuminating; still, if you feel like sending them to me, I might get a chance to look at it some time.
[Mod edit: fixed quote]
[Updated on: Mon, 27 March 2006 07:33] by Moderator
Michael "Wumpus" Zinn
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Mon, 20 March 2006 13:49 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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wumpus wrote on Mon, 20 March 2006 18:34 | Well... not from this ;P It's only clear that what I said previously is true; the "load optimal fuel" somehow wound up as a WP0 order in deep space, and from there on in you were screwed, since the circumstances dictated that you were stuck with an unfulfillable WP0 order which just sat there. The last part is not a bug - the fact that it became a WP0 order in the first place *might* be a bug, hmm.
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So, it can only become a problem during a force-gen. Phew.
Quote: | With the *starting* M and X files I might be able to discover something interesting, but I have my doubts it would be all that illuminating; still, if you feel like sending them to me, I might get a chance to look at it some time.
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I'll see if I can dig them out.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Mon, 20 March 2006 22:24 |
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Actually, since the ship had waypoint 1 load fuel orders, when it ran out of fuel in the middle of the transit the waypoint 1 fuel load order 'may' have been transferred to a waypoint 0 fuel load order. This should be easy enough to test and/or reprodcue if this is the case. I'll see what I come up with.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Tue, 21 March 2006 09:52 |
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Yes, I'm aware of that. However, when a fleet doesn't have enough fuel to get to the next location it won't move. That's a known condition. Take a fuel mizer minelayer with about 15mg of fuel and try sending it warp 9 to a location in space. The fleet waypoint tile will show red for the amount of fuel needed since there isn't enough fuel. Next turn, the fleet hasn't moved and the 15mg of fuel is still on board. Incidently, any ships targeting that minelayer will end up where the minelayer would have ended up if it had the fuel.
The condition being described is part of that same movement behavior.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Tue, 21 March 2006 10:36 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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Ptolemy wrote on Tue, 21 March 2006 15:52 | Yes, I'm aware of that. However, when a fleet doesn't have enough fuel to get to the next location it won't move. That's a known condition.
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But most of the time the afflicted ship just reduces its speed to one of 0 fuel usage, even all the way to warp 1, and coasts along. Happens all the time!
Quote: | Take a fuel mizer minelayer with about 15mg of fuel and try sending it warp 9 to a location in space. The fleet waypoint tile will show red for the amount of fuel needed since there isn't enough fuel. Next turn, the fleet hasn't moved and the 15mg of fuel is still on board. Incidently, any ships targeting that minelayer will end up where the minelayer would have ended up if it had the fuel.
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If memory serves, that ship won't stop w/out having moved. It will travel as much as it can with the fuel is has at the set speed, and for the remainder of the trip it'll get its speed changed to the highest fuel-free available one.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Re: A new bug? Ramscoop refusing to coast at free warp. |
Tue, 21 March 2006 11:11 |
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Which exact version of Stars! was this seen in? So far, using only 2.6jrc4 I haven't been able to make it happen. Is it possible this is in 2.7 (there isn't supposed to be any difference but there may be), or, perhaps jrc3 and not jrc4. Could you guys send me the entire file set .m .x .h and .xy - I'ld like to look into it from that angle.
Ptolemy
Though we often ask how and why, we must also do to get the answers to the questions.Report message to a moderator
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