 Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Wed, 05 November 2003 13:00  |
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Had a discussion the other day with Leit about sweeping minefields. So I of course made the "sweeping"  generalization that there were four general sweeping tactics.
Term "sweeper" can refer to a single ship or a group of ships that can be of similar or mixed designs.
(1) Slow or "safe" sweeping
Sweeper is entering the minefield at a safe speed with no chance of a hit being generated.
(2) Infiltration sweeping
Sweeper moves into the field with special orders *not* to actually sweep mines. Generally done with a heavily cloaked ship at a speed that is safe or close to safe. Upon reaching the center, or at the appropriate time, the sweeper changes orders and clears the field - and possibly "clearing" the minelayer as well.
(3) Penetration sweeping
Sweeper sent into the field at an unsafe speed with the intention of hopefully transiting close enough to the center (or target waypoint) to clear the field. Using multiple separate sweepers per field is more efficient since it increases the chance at least one sweeper making it to the desired waypoint. This differs from "crash" sweeping since mine hits by the sweeper(s) are usually *not* a desirable outcome.
(4) Crash sweeping
Sweeper sent into the field at an unsafe speed with the intention and desire to reduce the field by obtaining an actual mine collisions. Obviously more efficient when a single field is "attacked" by many ships at once. Classic case is the well-described "chaff sweeping" tactic.
Feel free to discuss. One reason I put this up is to see whether or not these terms are worthy and capable of becoming "common" terminology.
[Adding a few historical notes from a Google search of the rec.games.computer.stars archive.
Art Lathrop's "Tricks of the Trade" article in August, 1999 lists an equivalent of "Penetration Sweeping" as an intermediate level tactic. Referred to as "Rapid Sweeping".
"Crash Sweeping" is there as well as "Chaff Mine Sweeping". Defined as an advanced tactic.
First reference I found to the tactic itself was a posted message by Martin Demody in February of 1999.
William Bulter posted some numbers on how many collisions were required to clear a field in 1999 as well in a thread titled "Collision Sweeping". <I think there's been some later testing of this that refined the calculations - the revised numbers are the basis of the calculation utility that's available.]
Looking at this information I still think "Penetration Sweeping" is an accurate term for tactic #3 above. "Chaff Sweeping" is in fairly common use for #4; though "Crash" or "Collision" sweeping is perhaps a more accurate term to use.
- Kurt
[Updated on: Thu, 06 November 2003 14:25] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Wed, 05 November 2003 13:48  |
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 LEit |
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT | |
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I think of Penetration when I hear Crash sweeping (you're crashing the field, knowing you'll take some hits). And I use Chaff sweeping for what you call Crash sweeping, even if the ships involved arn't chaff (I've used mini bombers to do it once or twice - not really with the intention of sweeping the field, just making sure most of them make it - warp 6 through a std field for example).
I'd prefer that Crash sweeping be called Chaff sweeping. I do like the term Penetration, it is pretty clear what you're doing from the term.
One thing to note, is that mine field damage to mixed stacks is odd. According to the FAQ, it'll do the most damage to the top ship in the stack (top being lowest design slot) it might be a good idea to make your chaff the lowest design slot, and then group a sweeper with a single chaff, if you hit a mine, the chaff will die, but the sweeper will take a lot less damage.
- LEitReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Thu, 06 November 2003 13:52 |
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| LEit wrote on Thu, 06 November 2003 12:51 |
I would consider that a variant of Penetration sweeping. I acually use it a lot, if you only need to shrink a field, and/or you have a lot of fields but not a lot of sweepers, it makes sense. Although, having more fields then sweepers is a bad sign.
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I think I'll edit the original to specify a single sweeper - then point out that it's more efficient to use multiple sweepers per field due to the chance of a single sweeper being stopped earlier than you wish.
- Kurt
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| Re: Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Thu, 06 November 2003 13:58 |
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| LEit wrote on Wed, 05 November 2003 13:48 |
I
I'd prefer that Crash sweeping be called Chaff sweeping. I do like the term Penetration, it is pretty clear what you're doing from the term.
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I've seen it referred to both ways. Might have to Google the newsgroup and see how old a reference to either name I can find.
I selected "Crash" since the tactic doesn't always use "chaff".
- Kurt "off to run a search"
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| Re: Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Fri, 07 November 2003 02:44 |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1207
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| Quote: |
The difference between "penetration" sweeping is that they send only one sweeper fleet per minefield. It may hit the mine for minor damage but it usually gets lot farther than at warp 4 and so it is far more efficient than "safe" sweeping. 
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From my experience I'd say sending only one fleet is sufficient only for short travels in normal fields. I'm just fighting an advanced SD, that uses a SML with normal and heavy layers almost exclusively. I have developed a tactic that may be of some use to others.
- I don't sweep every field, just those that are in my direct path of attack. He may run out of minefield slots at some time.
- I'm using 2 sweepers: cheap DD: 2 miniguns, crobby, FM; and CC with 4 megaD and 2 tech 21 sappers speed 2.5. The first one is used for most sweeping, usually with speeds from 6 to 8 (remember, normal AND heavy minefields), sometimes as crash sweepers in groups of 15+ with speed of 9 for crash sweeping of large well defended fields. The CC design is used with chicken order when opponent doesn't have R3 2.5 speed interceptors close, and goes in with speed of 6; and to keep fields down. I use that design also as an interceptor for super minelayers my opponent has. Recently he abandoned his 2.5 speed SML design for 1.75. That allowed me to use my standard AMP nub for that purpose too, and to send only one CC instead of 2.
- I just started using AMP nubs in pairs as crash sweepers for his minefields around his core worlds. I have a big fleet there, but without sweepers, and want to kill as much of his planets ASAP, so the main requirement is bringing down his minefields fast.
- For critical minefields I usually check the probability of safe arrival (have a spreadsheet for that) of enough fleets to sweep most/all of the field, and send so many fleets to make sum of all probabilities more than 1.
- Each destroyed planet I secure with a minefield, to shrink his available free-movement space.
- All this requires a lot of MM. I'm pulling out of this game. With changed RL demands I don't have enough free time to play it in the described way. To play it different is not an option for me.
BR, Iztok
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| Re: Mine Sweeping: Methods and Terminology |
Thu, 12 March 2009 14:08 |
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| Eagle of Fire wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 16:39 |
I am curious, how does one make it so his own ships can't sweep a minefield? I always thought that sweeping mines was an automatic action for any beamer in range of mines...
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You don't sweep automatically:
* your own mines
* minefields of allies
And then there are your ships' battleorders due to which each ship can act differently towards minefields. If you specify "Nobody" as "Attack who", then your ship will not sweep any mines. Vice versa if you specify "Enemy", minefields of neutrals won't be swept.
And if you want to sweep the minefield of an ally, just specify this ally as "Attack who" and the ships will start sweeping your ally's minefields.
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