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 Creating StarCraft Races in Stars! |
Fri, 22 March 2024 19:08  |
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 k10forgotten |
 | Civilian |
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2024 | |
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I've come and gone to Stars! many times over the years as mostly a single-player game, although a friend of mine introduced me to the game and we did play in LAN for a time with his brothers. Now I've found the files and went straight ahead messing with races so I can create a StarCraft-based game, with Protoss, Terran, and Zerg. I started with Zerg as it seemed quite simple with Stars!, and it's my most liked race. Then I tried to create Protoss, and got stuck because I don't know how to create HP races... ç__ç
Zerg are quite straight-forward: HE -f. Rapidly reproducing race, and coined the term zerg rush, so the PGR should be super high. Later I found that I've come up with a race that is not legal for duels. haha
Zerg
- HE
- IS, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
- Full gravity (not immune)
- 76-wide temperature (-152°C to 152°C)
- 76-wide radiation (12mR to 88mR)
- 17% PGR (34%)
- 1:800
- 5/25/5/4g
- 9/3/9
- All expensive
- Tech 3
The habitability calculator gave me the following stats:
| No TF | 7% TF | 15% TF
----------------+--------+--------+--------
livable planets | 66.5% | 89.9% | 100%
51%+ value | 21.56% | 47.62% | 81.92%
I've found that with a 34% PGR I don't really care for immunity, as a 55% value planet would still give me 19% growth rate, which is bonkers to me haha and 1:800 gave me something like a turn of difference when compared to 1:1000. Same with 30% vs 34%.
Protoss in the game have a unique feature to them: they have regenerating shields (so that LRT is a must have for the "feel" of the race). They also have more expensive units, ultimately leading to a slower expansion rate than Zerg, at least. Protoss also have two different types in the game: High Templar and Dark Templar. High Templar technology has the stargate, and they had their home world destroyed, while the Dark Templar live on a single planet as exiles, while operating in the shadows.
So I tried to make them both hyperproducers with Low Starting Population, and Regenerating Shield. Their habitability should be the same, although I guess PGR may change. High Templars would be either Interstellar Travelers or Inner Strength (shielded armors, and armored shields), while Dark Templars would be Super Stealth.
High Templar (Khalai)
- IT
- NRSE, OBRM, LSP, RS
- Gravity immune
- 30-wide temperature (20°C to 140g)
- 30-wide radiation (55mR to 85mR)
- 18% PGR
- 1:2500
- 15/7/25/3g
- 7/3/23
- All expensive, but weapons cheap
- Tech 3
The habitability calculator gave me the following stats:
| No TF | 7% TF | 15% TF
----------------+--------+--------+--------
livable planets | 10.8% | 22.6% | 37.4%
51%+ value | 6.03% | 16.72% | 32.63%
I don't know if it's because I got too used to playing with Zerg, but either I can't play this race right or it really doesn't make the cut. And I don't know how to fix it. I also chose IT over IS, because the whole "space orgy" thing didn't really suit the race, but all the other stuff does align...
And then there's the Dark Templar's Super Stealth race, which I've never played, but at least I have a start (and I don't know how to make a HP ç__ç).
Dark Templar (Nezarim)
- SS
- IFE, OBRM, NAS, LSP, RS
- Gravity immune
- 30-wide temperature (20°C to 140g)
- 30-wide radiation (55mR to 85mR)
- 18% PGR
- 1:2500
- 15/7/25/3g
- 7/3/18
- All expensive, but weapons cheap
- Tech 3
Well, I didn't get very far with my testing ahaha only got to actually test Zerg and High Templar. IMO, Terran is just a JOAT HG, so I have more or less in mind that it'll be JOAT + NAS, OBRM with 19% PGR, at least.
--k10forgottenReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Creating StarCraft Races in Stars! |
Mon, 25 March 2024 12:37  |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1206
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
Database Mangenent lesson over. Stars! lesson starting. 
I've looked at your races WRT their playability. Don't have working Stars! at hand, so working from memory. Here are some comments.
> Zerg
> - HE
> ...
> - 9/3/9
Um, low mine settings. It's true Zerg can live and mine almost everywhere, but in my games with HE I often felt they're not mining fast enough. OTOH never played the -F HE, so I'm not qualified to comment this.
- All expensive
Ouch! -F races should look at 2+ cheap tech, one of them Weapons. Or you risk being contained with Jihad CCs and removed from the game with Jugg BBs.
---
> High Templar (Khalai)
> - IT
> - NRSE, OBRM, LSP, RS
Expansion will be problematic due to the lack of fuel. It's true the PRT is IT, but with the pop eff 1:2500 it will not be able to put up gates in a decent time. So no fuel and SFX gating to far-flung colonies.
> - 15/7/25/3g
Lots of factories, that will need LOTS of germanium. In game terms those factories'll "eat" a half of all mined germ.
-> - 7/3/23
Double OUCH! Mine eff 7 means you'll get from an average planet 11Mt germ instead of 15Mt. And only 70% of iron and bora too. With 25 factories operated and no remote mining you'll be left with 4Mt germ for shipbuilding. Please listen to old gurus: "Don't touch the mine efficiency!" ... checking calendar ... Err, I may be in that category nowadays. 
If I'd redesign the race I'd go with 21 factories operated and put points to mine eff. The HP with OBRM needs more minerals, so I'd try to get mine eff over 10, paying with a bit less pop growth and less mines operated.
---
> Dark Templar (Nezarim)
> - SS
> - IFE, OBRM, NAS, LSP, RS
IIRC SS actually PAYS for the NAS as 5th LRT.
To check race performance, there's the "100 ARM BBs" benchmark test. Please search for it.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Mon, 25 March 2024 12:43] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Creating StarCraft Races in Stars! |
Mon, 25 March 2024 14:15 |
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| k10forgotten |
| Civilian |
Messages: 3
Registered: March 2024 | |
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iztok wrote on Mon, 25 March 2024 13:37
Ouch! -F races should look at 2+ cheap tech, one of them Weapons. Or you risk being contained with Jihad CCs and removed from the game with Jugg BBs.
I'm always testing with these settings:
- Small Dense
- No Random Events, Public Player Scores
- 4 random expert AI
- 1 of: (owns 30%) OR (exceeds score by 40%), at least 40 years
(based on this https://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=msg&th=5 646&start=0&rid=1927)
So the game ends rather quickly with AI.
iztok wrote on Mon, 25 March 2024 13:37
Expansion will be problematic due to the lack of fuel. It's true the PRT is IT, but with the pop eff 1:2500 it will not be able to put up gates in a decent time. So no fuel and SFX gating to far-flung colonies.
That's one of my main struggles. That, not knowing when is the right time to expand, and how few planets I can expand into early in the game. I played a couple of games with this race and every time I got a HE in the game, I couldn't stop it colonizing that 30% in time...
iztok wrote on Mon, 25 March 2024 13:37
If I'd redesign the race I'd go with 21 factories operated and put points to mine eff. The HP with OBRM needs more minerals, so I'd try to get mine eff over 10, paying with a bit less pop growth and less mines operated.
Yeah, OBRM was a disaster. I redesigned it to not have OBRM and put IFE... These are the changes to the race:
- IFE, NRSE, LSP, RS
- 15/8/25/3g
- 11/3/23
- All expensive
I still couldn't stop HE, but it certainly got better. Still learning how to play with this style, like when to produce destroyers, or what is the counterplay to spore clouds everywhere, when to build miner ships...
iztok wrote on Mon, 25 March 2024 13:37
To check race performance, there's the "100 ARM BBs" benchmark test. Please search for it.
Noted!
--k10forgottenReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Creating StarCraft Races in Stars! |
Wed, 27 March 2024 23:48 |
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| Braindead |
 | Officer Cadet 2nd Year |
Messages: 238
Registered: April 2005
Location: Ohio | |
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Here's an example: https://starsautohost.org/sahforum2/index.php?t=tree&th= 1081&mid=9251&rid=0&rev=&reveal=#page_top This is VERY hard to achieve by mid 50s.
There is also a similar benchmark with a "less advanced" design
20x armageddon missiles
6x organic armor
8x bear neutrino shields
3x battle super computer
3x jammer 20
1x over thruster
4x interspace 10
Most PRT designs can crank 100 of these BBs by mid-to-late 50s.
These tests are a relatively good representation of how you design can fare in a real game because they test all aspects of the game that impact your economy and war fighting capabilities - resources, minerals, tech.
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