Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Bar » Playing two races in one game?
Playing two races in one game? |
Tue, 12 March 2013 21:27 |
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LittleEddie | | | Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011 Location: Delaware | |
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The Game: Lowtek
Rules:
Game setup:
- Large Normal
- Distant starting positions
- No AccBBS
- No PPS
- Random events on
- Slow tech
Racial restrictions:
- JoAT (100) and CA (200) take (points) penalties - to be set to defences (unless penalty exceeded by 50 points)
- Weapons tech must be expensive
- No pre-game alliances
Playing rules:
- "Kill Starbase" battle order is banned
- Standard cheat disclaimer:
- - Split fleet/chaff/heal after gate all allowed
- - Min damage not allowed
- - - No building* alpha/beta ships after 2450, or your race has jihad tech. whichever is earlier
- - - To start a second torpedo slot on a SB the first slot must be full
* You don't have to scrap what you already have
Communications:
- In game meeting before communications allowed
- Victory conditions have not been discussed either, so we will use the 2 player victory condition common to most stars games.
The facts as I now know them.
In about 2439 one player decided to quit playing, he gave his race and upload password to his ally and with the OK of the host played both turns.
In about 2457 a new player took over for the lost player.
None of this was made known to the other players in the game until after the new player took over. We did not know of the alliance or that One player was playing two races.
My question for the bar is:
Don't I as a player have the right to know who I'm playing against?
There are a lot of side issues that the players will bring up. But for me it's about TRUST! I'm I playing on a level field?
[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2013 21:28] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Tue, 12 March 2013 22:50 |
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I've said everything I needed to in support of XapBob, in the sub forum thread.
Edit - slight correction in eddie's narrative, which is incorrect in its basic description.
Magic did not quit the game in 2441, with the intent of not wanting to come back again.
He would have come back once RL issues were resolved. The situation still holds true.
A very short summary is:
Team victory is allowed.
Magicmushroom and XapBob allied as end-game allies in 2417.
Magic faced RL problems so bob played on behalf of magic, for 15 odd years, which would be around the average time cycle expected for the RL issue to have been resolved, from 2441 to 2456/57.
(Having seen the files, no race gutting or pumping took place during said period.)
After it was became evident that magic was unable to come back for a longer time, a replacement was found.
Basically, from what I understand, littleeddie is saying he doesn't trust XapBob.
Not sure how that matters as they are at war and have been with no agreement between them in the past 40 years, if not longer.
In said war, Magicmushroom or his fleets did not provide major help... XapBob might detail any minor help recd, if so reqd.
Also not sure what exactly littleeddie is looking for here... as arguably, he never was playing against Magicmushroom's race, so to speak.
Thus there was no in-game dynamic shift / psychological impact that changed from 2417-2440 or 2441-2556.
Is he looking for confirmation, punishment or does he just want to have a general discussion, ignoring specific game conditions in this case....?
[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2013 23:05]
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Wed, 13 March 2013 07:50 |
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So you mean a player should reveal secret alliances to other players, when they are taking over a race TEMPORARILY?
Or if a player is housekeeping an ally's turn for a week, while said ally has gone on a business trip / vacation, the player should tell others?
So that other players know how close the 2 players are working? That they are working that closely, that they are sharing files and passwords?
You really like your world in black and white, Eddie.
Let's talk SPECIFICS. Not generally.
Was THIS situation a problem in ANY way?
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Wed, 13 March 2013 12:10 |
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LittleEddie wrote on Wed, 13 March 2013 20:20This is not a team game
(snip)
Hmmm, so the game doesn't have a 2 player victory condition?
You might not want to play as a team, but others are most definitely going to.
Hell, last I checked there was a tri-alliance in the very same game.
It also has brothers playing who are actively trading + allied with each other.
I'm amazed no one has a problem with that.
Anyway, before I'm accused of going OT, I'll restate
Nmid
Hmmm, so the game doesn't have a 2 player victory condition?
You might not want to play as a team, but others are most definitely going to.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------
LittleEddie asked on Wed, 13 March 2013 20:20 But it is done in the open so everyone knows what's going on.
This was done behind closed doors, out of view of the other 8 players for at least 20 turns.
XapBob replied in the previous post to the question
No.
Certainly not in the case of a temporary takeover (which initially was only due to be a couple of turns) by an ally when the alliance is unknown to the rest of the universe (and had been for decades).
Using LittleEddie's own post to explain something to him, in his language.. slight grammar corrections
If you read (THE PREVIOUS) post you will see that (THIS WAS) point(ED) out.
(snip)
*ps, why do I waste my breath?
And finally...
nmid asks
Let's talk SPECIFICS. Not generally.
Was THIS situation a problem in ANY way?
[Updated on: Wed, 13 March 2013 12:32]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Wed, 13 March 2013 13:39 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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LittleEddie wrote on Wed, 13 March 2013 13:33Don't I as a player have the right to know who I'm playing against?
That's a very old question, actually. And the usual answer is "no".
Even here in SAH, some games/Hosts arrange for players' true identities and/or emails to be unknown.
As for the other issue, yes, it's not so uncommon for players to ask their friends or allies for help, always in the understanding that it's temporary and no "funny business" will happen.
Replacement by unknown players isn't that much better, as many replacements have trouble unearthing/maintaining the Diplomatic relationships, the econ, and even the race's basic workings.
The interesting side question would be what would you have done differently if you had known what was happening "behind the screens"?
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Thu, 14 March 2013 21:59 |
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LittleEddie | | | Messages: 517
Registered: February 2011 Location: Delaware | |
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Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Thu, 14 March 2013 23:03 |
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LittleEddie wrote on Fri, 15 March 2013 07:18BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
The three of you are posting 6 post to every one of mine, your using close to 10 words to one of my words.
That doesn't make you right.
Your only thinking about this game, I'm thinking about Stars! & AutoHost.
Magic is posting about this game, but hasn't played a turn in the last 30 or more. WHY.
In the next game I'm just going to be one half of all the players, Nmid knows I can play in 6 different games at the same time. So I should just play 5 players in the same game. That should be fair(by your definition).
Please think about the next game you want to play.
Little Eddie
Ed.
Listen carefully.
I have liked my games I have played against you, I really have.
You have a unique play style that is quite a change to play against.
That's why I always make the effort to reach out to you, which ever game I play where you are also present.
But decide what the problem is here.
If you are talking generally, then I don't care. I can let the community answer you... and I'll possibly be in the line supporting you. Yes. I might.
But when you are raising fingers against Bob/Mushroom in the specific circumstances that occurred in lowtech, then I'll tell you that you are not looking at the whole darn picture.
Stop looking at it in black and white.
You want to talk about the text book definiation of integrity? Ok.
Tell me who took an undue advantage here?
Bob or Magic?
I wasn't even in the picture, but when I took over, I sent out emails and in-game messages.
I'm telling you that when I took over, Bob had not mis-used the shofixti race.
If he wanted to, he could have ended the war or really pumped his race up.
If you want, once this game is over... (because you aren't ready to listen to me saying so, nor will you listen to sprocket), you can have a look at the game files and see for yourself.
Just chill, Eddie.... think about it and let me know man.
[Updated on: Thu, 14 March 2013 23:05]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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Re: Playing two races in one game? |
Fri, 15 March 2013 05:02 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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LittleEddie wrote on Fri, 15 March 2013 02:59Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions. Integrity can be regarded as the opposite of hypocrisy,[1] in that integrity regards internal consistency as a virtue, and suggests that parties holding apparently conflicting values should account for the discrepancy or alter their beliefs.
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