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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Fri, 15 June 2012 23:36   |
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Could I have a look at the game files?
If it's a running game, confidentiality is of-course assured.
edit - if it's been multiple turns, have you seen what the "total res spent on research last year" was in the current year?
Did it match the "next year's projected..." amount from the previous year (when there were these phantom resources going into R&D).
[Updated on: Fri, 15 June 2012 23:40]
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I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Sat, 16 June 2012 21:36 |
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| neilhoward | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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| craebild wrote on Sat, 16 June 2012 07:38 |
Try reading my question. And none of your suggestion can account for the resources that went to research.
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That is especially harsh, considering the fact that I was responding to your request for help. I guess I should thank you for not spitting on me.  I will just chalk it up to cultural differences.
I am afraid you misunderstand my comment. Iff your tech levels haven't changed during the years in question  , you are the only player in the game , you never used WP0 orders , you are not playing an IS , you operate zero mines/ remote miners , didn't upgrade any SBs , or build any ships , then you very well could say that none of my suggestion [sic] *can* account for resources being diverted to research. If that is the case, you must have a very interesting game on your hands.
I did read your claim that you had plenty of minerals, but it was sitting next to am apparent expectation that the production queue *should* with 100% accuracy predict production for the following turn. The latter indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of the Stars! Order of Events, casting some doubt on the veracity of the former. Perhaps trying M.A's suggestion will help.
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Sun, 17 June 2012 01:02 |
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 Marduk |
 | Ensign |
Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH | |
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What about fractional resources from partially-completed production? When you build something across multiple turns, it can cost more than the listed build cost. I have seen this happen frequently; I used to count on my production costs being completely accurate, but would often be off a little for things that weren't completed in a single turn.
My theory is that the amount spent is saved, but that the amount still required to complete an item is calculated from the % complete value with rounding errors leading to occasional excess resources dedicated. When the item is moved from the queue to a fleet or planet, the cost of the item is deducted from the amount spent and excess resources go to research.
Similarly for base upgrades the actual cost seems to be based on a truncated value for the credit from the current base (not giving you credit for any fractional resources or minerals), and the estimated cost on a rounded value. So even if an upgrade is done in a single turn it can still fail to complete if you have exactly enough to pay the estimated cost. Do an upgrade over multiple turns and it just gets worse.
To make matters even more ugly, when tech levels change costs it seems that the amounts already spent get recalculated based on % complete compared to the new cost and you can lose credit for resources spent due to rounding errors or truncated values.
Unfortunately I never bothered to test my theory; I came up with it, it matched what I was seeing, and I got a good feel for how much of a safety margin I needed, which was enough for me at the time. If someone does want to test it, I recommend a 1/1000 race using a red world with no mines or factories, and population in orbit to keep the system topped up to whatever consistent amount of pop. No mines means no worries about tracking mineral production; just put a nice even amount of each mineral on the surface.
And if you do decide to test, you might see if there is such a thing as fractional resources from population (like 1.7 resources from 1700 pop for a 1/1000). I am pretty sure the resources get truncated, but I haven't checked. Can 20,900 people build a 41 resource item in two turns, or will it take three? OCD MMers demand to know!
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Sun, 17 June 2012 05:12 |
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| craebild |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 568
Registered: December 2003
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark | |
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Neil, it might seem harsh to you, but I was asking why the research dialogue showed resources allocated to research before turn generation, and you "answered" be giving possible reasons actual production costs might be different from listed production costs. Your points might explain actual research being different from expected research, but not why resources are allocated to research before turn generation.
As for my saying that none of your suggestions can account for what happened, what I meant was that none of those things happened during that turn, not that they could not happen in that game.
Marduk, you seem to be assuming that the production queued is exactly the expected resources available, and most of what you are saying is about possible differences between expected and actual costs like what Neil wrote about, which does not explain why the "expected" allocation to research is higher than the zero value it should be.
Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Mon, 18 June 2012 19:25 |
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Hi ,
hope I could help you craebild.
ccmaster
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Tue, 19 June 2012 00:23 |
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heh.. I just think craebild hasn't been online yet.
I came up with a possible explanation, but am waiting for one of the missing year turns to confirm my hypothesis.
Regards,
Nmid.
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Tue, 19 June 2012 06:51 |
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Hi ,
the resources come from different worlds and it is normal nothing new.
Happen to every player when he has building Orders like he has.
I could not say more as it is a running game.
But there is no hypothesis needed and it has nothing to do with the years before.
ccmaster
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Tue, 19 June 2012 15:29 |
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Hi,
I say that it is not a bug. As faf as i know it. And that i could not say more because the game is runnuing.
Ccmaster
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| Re: Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ? |
Wed, 20 June 2012 08:07 |
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| ccmaster wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 16:21 |
Hi ,
the resources come from different worlds and it is normal nothing new.
Happen to every player when he has building Orders like he has.
I could not say more as it is a running game.
But there is no hypothesis needed and it has nothing to do with the years before.
ccmaster
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Hi CC,
Ah, that's why you pinged me the other night.
Let's compare notes. I thought differently as I saw resources affecting R&D coming from planets that had full queues.
Regards,
Nmid.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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Why are resources allocated to research when the planets can use all available resources ?
Most likely cause would be a mineral shortage somewhere. Try adding "Alchemy (as needed)" to the top (or the bottom) of some Queues, and see if there's changes. Once the "leaky" place(s) are found, it should be easier to find the cause(s). 
