Home » Primary Racial Traits » HE » -f HE
-f HE |
Mon, 27 January 2003 18:40 |
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is this really a good idea to try?? as you can boost up the growth rate to really obscene levels and get even more than a normal HE... although you might only ever be able to build chaff effectively lol
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 27 January 2003 19:35 |
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hmmmm
im @ 2431 in my testbed, i have 41 planets and a whopping 849 resources... /me guesses this aint good lolol
Aragh!Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 27 January 2003 19:42 |
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4500k by 2450
nothing special, but better than an AR race i once made..
on another note, i accidently de-popped my HW when i did a 10gen skip because i had too many spore clout freighters RAPEING it lol!.. oops
race peramiters :-
HE ( duh.. )
IS NRSE OBRM RS
grav max wide
temp centered -164 to 164
rad immune
7% ( 14% )
1/700
-f facts
10/5/25 mines
nrg const weap cheap
elec prop normal
bio exp
points left 62
to surface minerals
[Updated on: Mon, 27 January 2003 19:47]
Aragh!Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 27 January 2003 21:19 |
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regiss | | Petty Officer 1st Class | Messages: 65
Registered: November 2002 | |
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7(14)% is too low for -f, as You've noticed.
I once did a test-bed on -f HE. Found that 2i ~15(30)% works
best for me. It was something like:
NRSE, OBRM, ISB, NAS, LSP
i|i|72-92
15(30)%
1/1000
-f
10/3/20
weap, const cheap
Don't remember the results, but it needs tweaking anyway.
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Re: -f HE |
Fri, 31 January 2003 17:01 |
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alter the growth rate to 10% and you get 20% growth from the HW... in other words you can grow as much as any other -F race. This is a good start.
IFE, ORBM (duh), ISB and wait for it..... TT for LRTs....
IFE - another cheap engine for shipping people around.
ORBM - why would you even WANT remote miners?
ISB - why not? cheap space dock good for any -F
TT - better, cheaper terraforming to a greater level... every -F's dream.
All hab ranges are maxed to the edges and then taken in 1 point. This is because no planet has the max and min values.
-F factories
3 cost per mine
18 mines per 10,000 people - about standard for a -F
all tech is standard... make whatever you want cheap/expensive.
3 points left over.
I figured this race would be a good idea for a -F because it'll grow as fast as any -F. It's got some GOOD lrt's and the tech aint too bad either.
downside is you're a HE and you're -F.
You've got no gates and you'll ammass a huge empire... MM like you've never seen and will never want to ever again.
Your resources are totally pop dependant... and you can only get 1/2 the pop per planet of any other race... but on the up side with a hab range like this you'll have lots of planets and quite good values for them too!!
I managed 19k by 2450.... which is good for a -F. But just getting to 2450 took nearly 2 hours.
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Re: -f HE |
Fri, 31 January 2003 23:33 |
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Sotek | | Chief Warrant Officer 2 | Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002 | |
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And why, by the gods, are you taking 10/3/18 mines?
Even an HG doesn't go past 10/3/15, oftimes.
And a -f will /never/ use all those minerals unless they're throwing fifty gazillion packets. You can easily improve your tech or growth (because that 10%-20% is not going to help once your worlds are hitting 25% cap, and it only gives you as many people as everyone else's planets would at 10% growth.)
Drop to 10/3/12 mines at /most/, spend that on growth or tech, you'll be better off, and you'll still have too many minerals.
Heck, I've played 10/4/7 mine races, and /still/ get too many mins.
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Re: -f HE |
Sat, 01 February 2003 03:52 |
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zoid | | Ensign | Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002 Location: Murray, KY - USA | |
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Hetzer wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 18:19 | Why take IFE when you can make speed 6 ramscoop freighters by:
minicol hull/cargo pod x 3
minicol hull/fuel tank x 6
(or any variation in a 1/2 ratio)
This will give you a cargo ship that can go warp 9 for 3 turns loaded.
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Sotek wrote on Fri, 31 January 2003 20:33 | And why, by the gods, are you taking 10/3/18 mines? Even an HG doesn't go past 10/3/15, oftimes. And a -f will /never/ use all those minerals unless they're throwing fifty gazillion packets. You can easily improve your tech or growth (because that 10%-20% is not going to help once your worlds are hitting 25% cap, and it only gives you as many people as everyone else's planets would at 10% growth.) Drop to 10/3/12 mines at /most/, spend that on growth or tech, you'll be better off, and you'll still have too many minerals. Heck, I've played 10/4/7 mine races, and /still/ get too many mins.
| I can't speak from experience (having never played a -f HE and having no inclination to) but it looks to me like freakyboy is talking about a playable race and you two are talking about a max testbed race.
Personally I don't think there's any such thing as too many minerals, even with my 25/2/25 mine HE race where the minerals quickly amass in the tens of thousands.
As for IFE, well, I've noticed it's a cast-iron b_tch trying to fit the settlers delight engine onto warships, or weapons onto the mini-colonizer. The fuel mizer ramscoop at P2 can fulfill all your propulsion needs better than any other engine for a long time without propulsion research. And as for the mini-colonizer hull, some HE's would rather keep their prt a secret.
There's my two cents worth. Coming from me, you better hope you're not getting ripped off.
...
[Updated on: Sat, 01 February 2003 03:59]
I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Ummm, sure! I do FREESTYLE math.Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f HE |
Sat, 01 February 2003 14:36 |
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Sotek | | Chief Warrant Officer 2 | Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002 | |
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No, no, I'm not talking about a testbed race by any means. I'm talking about actual races in actual games. No, they're not HE, but they /are/ -f.
In one game, I've got gigantic stocks of all minerals that I can't use up as fast as I continue to mine, and my mine settings are, I kid you not, 11/3/7. Now, that's an IT, but it certainly works.
10/3/12 is what I've got for another race: This one SS, and which just threw packets big enough to kill several worlds with maximal defenses, and hasn't used the robber baron yet...
...and still has enough minerals on the ground to build lots and lots of ships.
10/4/7 is certainly extreme, but it'd also be playable; I've done it.
Now, I just made an HE... compare this one to the previous one:
NRSE, OBRM, ISB, TT. Reasonable LRTs, although I'd tend to want to take NAS as well.
Hab: All bars full width, then in one.
PGR: 12% (the NAS version can go up to 13%.)
Econ:
Pop: 1/1000 efficiency, the only setting worth the cost.
Factories: 5/25/5, no g box. Standard -f.
Mines: 10/3/13 (NAS version might drop to 10/3/12 for that extra point or two to get the 13% PGR.)
Tech: Weap, Const, Bio cheap and Ener, Elect, Prop expensive.
Obviously you can toy with those (I might want ener and bio both std, but that's a non-certain thing.) but they're the same settings as Freakyboy proposed, more or less.
The minerals won't be a problem, and the extra growth will /really/ help.
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Re: -f HE |
Sun, 02 February 2003 08:31 |
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Minerals are a point of choice.
My initial point remained the same...
with maxed out (and then in one) hab range with 10% growth you can grow as quick as anyone else until the 25% cap.
But you can colonise EVERYTHING!! So is it better to have 20 HE worlds at 25% cap or say 10 IT worlds at 25% cap?
The only race that can for 1/2 the planets with a 20% growth rate out breed the 10% HE is a JOAT. And a JOAT can out breed anything (bar AR who don't really count).
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 09 June 2003 19:41 |
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boneandrew | | Crewman 1st Class | Messages: 35
Registered: June 2003 Location: Detroit | |
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The total resources per planet of a -f HE really makes 'em tough for quality games. But, the -f HE can really be fun if all you want to do is make a pain in the *** out of yourself for the first 30 turns or so.
Try out something like this: 1 in 2 or 3 pop range, 19% (38%!!)growth, mediocre mines, expensive tech except for weapons and maybe con, IFE/NRSE, NAS, LSP, ISB (for space docks, as low mass ships are all you're likely to be able to build efficiently). If you have ANY close neighbors, you will be the DEVIL INCARNATE, and then you will see a united assault on you like you've never seen. Quite fun!
I bet a setup like this would be murder in tiny-universe blitz games, though!
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Re: -f HE |
Thu, 06 November 2003 18:10 |
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I wasn't sure if I should post this little one on here or in the duelling forum...
Here's the idea a -f HE race USED FOR DUELLING.
I'll justify everything I've taken here too...
Energy/weapons/construction cheap.
basically you can chuck out frigate hordes really early with this. Bazooka, mizer, wolverine standard design. If you can't topple the bad guys at this stage, you're totally buggered.
-f factories.
1/1000 pop resources
10/3/15 mines.
This is -F (duh) and the mines are plenty enough in the event that this goes into a long haul duel.
0.31g to 3.20g
-120c to 120c
rad immune
12% gr
1/2 hab.
rad immune because of the planet distibution curve, and because there's no way you're gonna want to waste time terraforming.
IFE (for the frigate hordes)
ISB (space dock is cheap and REQUIRED)
ORBM (10% mean alot)
RS (did I mention frigate hordes?)
and......
UR.
The reason I put emphasis on UR is because it's something I've grown to love thanks to Zoid. Should the game go long haul, UR makes a MASSIVE difference. I'd recomend UR to every SD player anywhere, UR allows you to sit back and defend until your enemy runs out of minerals or at least runs low enough to be restricted. You can just keep recycling. The added bonus of saving resources is also wonderful for this race.
PRT: HE.
Basically don't let any planets go beyond the 25% cap. Colonise everything with those mini colonisers, don't bother scouting really - you can if you want, but it's resources taken away from frigate horde R & D.
This race is like the Duracel Bunny on Sunny Delight. Keep pumping out those little colony hulls and throw as much as you dare into getting those frigate hordes researched and built asap. If your enemy isn't a CA or SD you could be laughing all the way.
It's really weak economics, it's a bloody quick starter, but in a small galaxy, with little room, and low planetary population - this is going to be tough.
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41 |
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freakyboy wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 14:31 | Minerals are a point of choice.
My initial point remained the same...
with maxed out (and then in one) hab range with 10% growth you can grow as quick as anyone else until the 25% cap.
But you can colonise EVERYTHING!! So is it better to have 20 HE worlds at 25% cap or say 10 IT worlds at 25% cap?
The only race that can for 1/2 the planets with a 20% growth rate out breed the 10% HE is a JOAT. And a JOAT can out breed anything (bar AR who don't really count).
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JOAT can outbreed a HE 10 % yes but not a HE 20% (40 % )
ccmaster
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 15 December 2003 02:42 |
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timmy | | Crewman 1st Class | Messages: 21
Registered: October 2003 | |
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ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41 |
freakyboy wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 14:31 |
The only race that can for 1/2 the planets with a 20% growth rate out breed the 10% HE is a JOAT. And a JOAT can out breed anything (bar AR who don't really count).
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JOAT can outbreed a HE 10 % yes but not a HE 20% (40 % )
ccmaster
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You're forgetting the 25% growth cap and HE's 1/2 size worlds. An HE hits the cap at 125k pop. This means the *max* pop it can grow a turn, with 20(40)% growth, is 56k. An OBRM Joat, on the other hand, has 330k pop at 25% cap (all these numbers assuming a 100% value). That yields 66k pop growth a year w/ 20%, and 63k with the more common 19%. So the OBRM Joat outbreeds the HE.
Also keep in mind that the 40% HE will hit pop caps too fast for you to effectively manage pop, which means that your net pop growth will be poor. That's why the race points are better spent elsewhere.
Regards,
Tim
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 15 December 2003 03:28 |
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timmy wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 08:42 |
ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41 |
freakyboy wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 14:31 |
The only race that can for 1/2 the planets with a 20% growth rate out breed the 10% HE is a JOAT. And a JOAT can out breed anything (bar AR who don't really count).
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JOAT can outbreed a HE 10 % yes but not a HE 20% (40 % )
ccmaster
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You're forgetting the 25% growth cap and HE's 1/2 size worlds. An HE hits the cap at 125k pop. This means the *max* pop it can grow a turn, with 20(40)% growth, is 56k. An OBRM Joat, on the other hand, has 330k pop at 25% cap (all these numbers assuming a 100% value). That yields 66k pop growth a year w/ 20%, and 63k with the more common 19%. So the OBRM Joat outbreeds the HE.
Also keep in mind that the 40% HE will hit pop caps too fast for you to effectively manage pop, which means that your net pop growth will be poor. That's why the race points are better spent elsewhere.
Regards,
Tim
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You make one mistake .
In a normal game ( witout BBS ) the HE ( 40 % ) have in year 2406 170k+ grow 56k a year the Joat only 74k on his HW . The Joat needs unitll year 2414 then he have 320k and a grow of 64 k.
So if the HE has Planet around him and send his kolonists away in the time 2406 - 14 lets say only 2 Planets 50 % he wills grow in year with about 112k . This is a "week " example normaly a He have more hen 2 50 % Planets around . Max grow would be if 100% Planets in year 2414 235k . So no Race can beat the grow of a HE ( 40 % ) .
But sure noone plays a 40 % He
ccmaster
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Re: -f HE |
Mon, 15 December 2003 04:14 |
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timmy | | Crewman 1st Class | Messages: 21
Registered: October 2003 | |
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[quote title=ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 03:28][quote title=timmy wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 08:42]ccmaster wrote on Mon, 15 December 2003 00:41 |
You make one mistake .
In a normal game ( witout BBS ) the HE ( 40 % ) have in year 2406 170k+ grow 56k a year the Joat only 74k on his HW . The Joat needs unitll year 2414 then he have 320k and a grow of 64 k.
So if the HE has Planet around him and send his kolonists away in the time 2406 - 14 lets say only 2 Planets 50 % he wills grow in year with about 112k . This is a "week " example normaly a He have more hen 2 50 % Planets around . Max grow would be if 100% Planets in year 2414 235k . So no Race can beat the grow of a HE ( 40 % ) .
But sure noone plays a 40 % He
ccmaster
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You are right that initially, in the first few years of a game, the HE will grow more pop. But my point was that the max pop growth a year achievable is greater for an OBRM Joat than for any other race, including 40% HE. Also, if you want to point to growth attainable in the course of a real game, then I'd expect that an OBRM JoaT would be able to grow more pop by 2410 than your HE (in Acc BBS, which is more common). This because the HE will hit the pop cap too fast and its extremely poor transport ability (low tech, poor freighters) means that it won't be able to ship out the pop fast enough. The JoaT will be able to spread its pop faster, and therefore will grow faster. As the game progresses the JoaT will outbreed the HE more and more. It might take slightly longer to overtake the HE in total pop with Acc BBS off, but it will still happen. All this means the OBRM JoaT breeds better than the 40% HE.
[Updated on: Mon, 15 December 2003 04:15] Report message to a moderator
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Re: -f HE |
Wed, 17 December 2003 08:49 |
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I will lay down the gauntlet here a little (kind of)
if ccmaster doesn't mind of course.....
I'm talking about playing a full open to everyone game.
I shall play a bog standard 19% -F JOAT, ccmaster with his -f HE.
Small, dense, no accell bbs galaxy.
We'll play to turn 2450 (which my ccmasters claims... i should only have my HW left).
Whoever hosts will back up every single turn. The whole game will be zipped up and passwords provided in a text file and then place a link on this thread to look at the overall effect.
You game cc???
(the reason why this wont be entered as a duel is because I have already seen his race and I wont be designing a counter-design, only a bog standard -f JOAT.)
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