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Re: Best way to make a -F IS

Sat, 15 September 2007 00:08

Soobie

Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia

Dogthinkers wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 16:14

m-m-m-m-multi post Laughing

Had a bit of a silly idea for a race... I gotta try this in a test bed some time....

IS
CE,OBRM,NAS,RS
0.21g to 8.00g (76 clicks wide)
-144^C to 200^C (76 clicks wide)
57mR to 87mR (30 clicks wide)
20% PGR
1 per 800 pop eff
5/25/5/4g facs
10/3/10 mines
Prop, weap, con cheap; el normal; en, bio exp; no start@3 (could swap el and en around by preference, but prop really wants to be cheap)

I like this idea a lot - not to play in a game, but to see how it handles in a test. Anything different is good. Razz

So had a play with it. On the face of it 420 RW pts for 1/800 is A LOT; I found another 162 pts for TT. [Slightly less than it should be: RS COSTS 10 points since you are otherwise taking 4 bad LRTs - TT *kind of* reduces that penalty to the usual -7 pts for 5 LRTs as far as I can tell] Yes, TT is not listed there, but no immune and no TT for a -f seemed tough - in hindsight, probably a mistaken perception. ISB was probably more important. So, narrowed hab and left shifted it a bit to 1 in 5 (almost 1 in 6, but 1in4 almost 1in3 with starting TT) and reduced the number of mines a bit. Ran 2 tests in same seeded universe small/dense (won't do that again - too many planets) 1 with LSP, 1 with CE - CE was painful because of the extra MM to get ships to max out <warp6 travel potential.
C8/P9/En3 in 2414 for both and 1 large green, 1 small green and 2 x -1/-2 yellows within 2 warp9 jumps. No ISB was not hard, but hurt psychologically. Built a grand total of 4 Pvts and no FTs. I would consistently put ~15% pop on new planets (or around 100K on yellows and small greens) as that seemed to be the breakpoint for completing terraforming and hitting 25% capacity at full-terra. Tended to leave the freighter and escorts there for later pop export (other than occsasionally taking some minerals back to bases if they were short and mineral freighters were still a bit far away). Typically ran the Q at Auto10% terra/auto 10 mines (inverted for high conc worlds) - terra was Fastttttt, and it was rare for a planet not to be building mines within about 5 turns, until I started taking deep yellows around the 30s.

So, Small/dense, same scouting, *very* similar colonising: 21K at 2450 with LSP. 22K at 2450 with CE. Tech: 10/16/12/13/11/7 for LSP and 10/17/12/13/11/4 made a mistake on Bio with LSP, wasn't concentrating for a couple of turns - I would call tech even, slightly in favour of the CE - probably a reflection of the CE cheapness. Took con early to get supers and prop 12 early (if I'm going P10 for terra, I may as well go P12), W hung around 12 for quite a while (from early 30s to mid 40s) til near the end. But it did mean the race came out with the potential (unutilised by me) for BB Jihad with TGFS from early 30s and BB Jihad with TGSS from v.late 30s.

Had plenty of ships floating around, mainly freighters of course, but also 100 or so FFs [sidenote: FFs with mvmt 1.5 is nice.] and a few CCs, but was using only lightly defended SBs (a few sappers and jihads and croby shields) and only built a few (well, 10 - should've build more). Kept the builds and scouting the same for both races. Colonising was slightly different because of the mildly different habs (1 click wider and 1 left shift for the CE). Must admit I found it difficult to keep up the build of escorts for the freighters because of no ISB. Add warfighting and it would be very painful - particular since even those smaller planets are actually quite productive with the 1/800 - on the flipside, it means you never really turn off your research, which can have some advantages?

Gave up managing pop and orgies at around 2440 for both, other than building freighters for growing the orgies in the sky and some mineral balancing. Had roughly the same pop in the sky as on the ground by 2450 but never dropped the pop - would have had about 45K res for both if I had. -- Sorry, just checked - I ballsed up the pop with one world with the CE - had about 3mill on the ground and about 5mil in the air at that planet. Oops - was trying to avoid overpop. Razz

Planet count at 2450:
LSP: 57 (15 yellow - 6 @ -1% and about to flip. 7 greens and lots of yellows (over 40) not taken and 46 planets not scanned).
CE: 58 (15 yellow - 7 @ -1%. 7 greens and lots of yellows not colonised and 46 planets not scanned)

Yes, I'm lazy. It was interesting to see an 8% starting green go quickly to 78% for a non immune. Also, my worst planet was a yellow that terraformed to from -10% to 39%. At that point, there were a few yellows that, if terraformed, would be worse than that, but not many. Ultimately, with TT all starting greens would be 99% or better, and most up to -15% on rad as well, making about 85% of all planets eventually habitable as far as I could tell.

On the whole, it was an extremely easy non-immune -f to test bed, with either LSP or CE. Others may put mines in front of terra, but even with an average conc draw, I found minerals were abundant with a small amount of balancing. By the end, I had too much minerals, but in a game this would have been sucked up in warship building of course.

There was a real threat of overcrowding in the early run to TGFS and LF which had to be managed quite carefully, and probably could have been done better by someone other than me, so I had to plan out the start a bit further than normal. I would say both races could cope well with light skirmishing from ~2416 to around 2420, heavy skirmishing to 2425 and full on war from around 2425. [Very early pressure (like <2410) would probably be quite painful]. A better player than I could bring that all forward about a decade of course. Smile

In a war or skirmishing, I felt it would be very susceptible to logistics disruption, as I had lots of automated (escorted) freighter runs taking minerals to bases.

To keep the 1/800 theme, in hindsight I would perhaps drop the CE/LSP and TT so that I could take ISB, centre the hab fully on Temp and Grav, and widen the hab slightly. Alternatively, I'd contemplate dropping PGR to 19%, keeping TT dropping CE (and narrow hab a click) or drop LSP) and also take ISB - the reduced PGR perhaps meaning slighly less pressure on spreading, so the reduced hab OK? Finally, it would have been nice to not have NAS, but that is a common problem and usually quite liveable, albeit expensive and painful in-game.

Cheers,
S.

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[Message index]

		Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 31 July 2007 22:05
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Wed, 01 August 2007 01:10
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 01 August 2007 02:31
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Wed, 01 August 2007 12:34
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Wed, 01 August 2007 03:57
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: joseph on Wed, 01 August 2007 09:25
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Wed, 01 August 2007 10:50
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Thu, 02 August 2007 07:32
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Thu, 02 August 2007 11:40
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 02 August 2007 01:37
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Thu, 02 August 2007 07:42
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Thu, 02 August 2007 10:38
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 02 August 2007 03:11
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Thu, 02 August 2007 08:07
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 02 August 2007 19:42
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Thu, 02 August 2007 20:43
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Skaffen on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:25
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:30
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Sat, 04 August 2007 16:23
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Thu, 02 August 2007 21:23
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sat, 04 August 2007 13:13
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:05
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:23
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Skaffen on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:35
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: mazda on Wed, 15 August 2007 08:24
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Fri, 03 August 2007 01:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 03 August 2007 02:58
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Fri, 03 August 2007 09:02
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 03 August 2007 19:36
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Skaffen on Sat, 04 August 2007 12:52
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sat, 04 August 2007 12:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Skaffen on Sat, 04 August 2007 13:01
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:11
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sat, 04 August 2007 14:14
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Sat, 04 August 2007 19:20
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Sat, 04 August 2007 22:40
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Sun, 05 August 2007 04:39
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 05 August 2007 19:28
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Sun, 05 August 2007 20:11
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 05 August 2007 21:02
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Mon, 06 August 2007 04:56
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Mon, 06 August 2007 22:23
		Where do you hold By: joseph on Wed, 08 August 2007 17:56
		Above 50% By: joseph on Wed, 08 August 2007 18:01
		Re: Where do you hold By: velvetthroat57 on Wed, 08 August 2007 22:37
		Re: Where do you hold By: joseph on Thu, 09 August 2007 11:31
		Re: Where do you hold By: velvetthroat57 on Fri, 10 August 2007 15:59
		Re: Where do you hold By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 12 August 2007 21:31
		Re: Where do you hold By: Captain Maim on Mon, 13 August 2007 01:28
		Re: Where do you hold By: joseph on Tue, 14 August 2007 06:50
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Mon, 06 August 2007 03:35
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 09 August 2007 19:33
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Thu, 09 August 2007 20:29
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: mlaub on Thu, 09 August 2007 20:52
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: joseph on Fri, 10 August 2007 10:39
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 14 August 2007 22:00
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Tue, 14 August 2007 23:54
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 15 August 2007 01:10
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: joseph on Wed, 15 August 2007 04:07
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Mon, 10 September 2007 13:49
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Bystander on Mon, 10 September 2007 16:28
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Mon, 10 September 2007 18:24
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Mon, 10 September 2007 22:52
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Mon, 10 September 2007 23:03
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Tue, 11 September 2007 02:44
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Tue, 11 September 2007 03:06
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Tue, 11 September 2007 04:08
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Sat, 15 September 2007 00:08
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 11 September 2007 12:39
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Wed, 12 September 2007 02:21
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 12 September 2007 11:48
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 13 September 2007 03:49
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Thu, 13 September 2007 04:11
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 13 September 2007 04:49
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Thu, 13 September 2007 11:11
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Thu, 13 September 2007 17:54
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Sun, 16 September 2007 03:33
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Sun, 16 September 2007 05:54
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Sun, 16 September 2007 10:17
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Sun, 16 September 2007 10:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Mon, 17 September 2007 06:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Mon, 17 September 2007 13:56
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Mon, 17 September 2007 22:06
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Mon, 17 September 2007 23:37
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 25 September 2007 13:05
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Tue, 25 September 2007 13:25
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Tue, 25 September 2007 22:12
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Wed, 26 September 2007 01:47
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: scottrick49 on Thu, 12 March 2009 08:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Altruist on Thu, 12 March 2009 14:14
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: scottrick49 on Thu, 12 March 2009 16:28
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Wed, 02 September 2009 08:56
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Wed, 02 September 2009 10:59
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Wed, 02 September 2009 22:07
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Sat, 05 September 2009 07:15
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 25 September 2007 22:21
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 26 September 2007 03:21
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: AlexTheGreat on Wed, 26 September 2007 03:23
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 26 September 2007 04:39
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: AlexTheGreat on Wed, 26 September 2007 09:10
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 26 September 2007 13:06
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 23 November 2007 06:07
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Fri, 23 November 2007 09:03
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 23 November 2007 09:17
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Fri, 23 November 2007 10:44
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 23 November 2007 11:10
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Fri, 23 November 2007 12:09
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Mon, 26 November 2007 01:27
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: velvetthroat57 on Mon, 26 November 2007 09:15
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Mon, 26 November 2007 22:31
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 27 November 2007 03:29
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Tue, 27 November 2007 05:35
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: iztok on Tue, 27 November 2007 09:16
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Fri, 23 November 2007 14:31
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Mon, 26 November 2007 03:40
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Tue, 27 November 2007 11:08
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Micha on Tue, 27 November 2007 14:31
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Wed, 28 November 2007 02:14
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 20 January 2008 18:57
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Dogthinkers on Sun, 20 January 2008 22:12
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Soobie on Mon, 21 January 2008 03:17
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Captain Maim on Mon, 21 January 2008 03:33
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: magic9mushroom on Thu, 16 June 2011 08:36
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: Greenstink on Tue, 21 June 2011 22:05
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: magic9mushroom on Tue, 21 June 2011 23:45
		Re: Best way to make a -F IS By: neilhoward on Tue, 21 June 2011 21:50

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