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-f Benchmark Sat, 06 December 2003 23:29 Go to next message
oblivion is currently offline oblivion

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 7
Registered: December 2003
So, I was contemplating creating a -f race (a -f PP, specifically, by the PRT isn't the issue, really). I was curious what are some reasonable benchmark for a -f economy? I've heard of various "x resourced by 2450", and several different "100 BBs by x year" standards, and I was wondering if those still apply, or if there is a slightly different measurement.

[Updated on: Sat, 06 December 2003 23:32]

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Re: -f Benchmark Sun, 07 December 2003 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

I expect the same benchmarks still apply, since the -f race still has to complete with other races in a real game. Not counting err "measuring" contests of course. Wink

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Re: -f Benchmark Sun, 07 December 2003 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oblivion is currently offline oblivion

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 7
Registered: December 2003
Well, but from what I gather, a -f race needs to be very much quicker out of the gate than other races, and has to be reasonably war-ready in short order. So I wasn't sure if there were other goals that would more accurately reflect what one should tune a -f race towards.

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Re: -f Benchmark Sun, 07 December 2003 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Well the easiest way to do this is to split CA from other PRT's.

Personally the resources by 2450 benchmark is fine and dandy... but it is just a measuring contest.

I stick to using a small dense galaxy with accel bbs and no random events.

-F CA

I have 2 of these.
With TT: meets the 100 BB mark in 2452
Without TT: meets the 100 BB mark in 2457

without TT starts to build the BB's earlier (since it wastes no time researching bio) but on the other hand it's resource output is significantly lower. Both of these races can acheive AMP Nubian technology before 2465 (TT: 2461, no TT: 2465).


-F IT

100 BB benchmark in 2463.


The reason why I stick to the BB benchmark is because it tests a race properly....

mineral output, weapons research, general research, AND production are all measured effectively.

Since it's very easy to build up high resource output just by taking all expensive technology and minimal mining settings anyone who can claim over 35k of resources by 2450 should be taken with a pinch of salt.


ccmaster has a non-CA -F race that can manage the BB benchmarch by 2454.....

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Re: -f Benchmark Sun, 07 December 2003 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sotek is currently offline Sotek

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 167
Registered: November 2002
If I were testbedding a -f, I'd try for a frigate horde and a cruiser fleet benchmark more than the BBs.

Seems more relevant.

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Re: -f Benchmark Mon, 08 December 2003 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
oblivion wrote on Sun, 07 December 2003 05:29

I was curious what are some reasonable benchmark for a -f economy?

By JC at RGCS:
Another useful war-like benchmark for -f races in the year you can make mark
IV blaster cruisers. A typical early -f war machine can be built around ISB,
tech targets 10/14/12/9/10/4+ - with 11 elec better but not essential; then
you build the cheaper mark IV blaster cruisers, shielded and in a "horde" and
with some jamming, with cherry mini-bombers for the planet-killing and chaff
to help deal with missles as needed. Those ships are cheap, fit through
150/600 gates, build at spacedocks, and are efficient for their role of
throwing resources at the enemy in militarily effective form, quickly. (In
your IT case, you might be able to settle for prop 9 and will want con 10,
naturally). That sort of war-economy is capable of killing whole races if
the attack launches quickly enough, even if the race isn't "crippled" earlier
by blockade strategy interference with its pop-movements. You should be able
to run such a war economy in the 40s in an Acc BBS start - having everything
in place for it by year 40 is a good result (the tech, the docks, the gates,
mines mostly done to support it, minelayers working already on the defense
side to suppliment as- needed jihad bases to let the fleet mostly attack,
etc).

HTH.
BR, Iztok

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Re: -f Benchmark Mon, 15 December 2003 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
oblivion wrote on Sun, 07 December 2003 06:29

I was curious what are some reasonable benchmark for a -f economy?


I have testbedded -f:
small dense distant
Acc BBS
public scores
AI form alliances

my -f against 4 expert AIs - 2 x SS and 2 x PP.

The sooner their territories are "slaved" (no planets with orbitals), the better... if i cannot make it by 2450 the race is junk.

This testbed takes a bit more time than usual but then again -f needs a bit unusual training too... -f strategy is far from the usual "be frendly with everyone and wait nubs".

Keep in mind that it does not matter what econ you have. Matters what econ you have compared to your opponents. Something like 16k i usually have by 2450 but that against 0 from my opponents by then is not so bad. Wink

Do it with CA first then switch to others. Wink My conclusions so far are that one needs at least ISB, OBRM, construction cheap and immunity to build a -f. Secondary value are NAS (dont take with PP) and RS. NRSE and IFE do not help. CE improves the results against AI (cheaper fleet and RW points) but i am not sure about real players. my 2 cents



[Updated on: Wed, 17 December 2003 04:32]

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Re: -f Benchmark Tue, 16 December 2003 17:55 Go to previous message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Quote:

Something like 16k i usually have by 2425

Huh?! 16k is my usual result with -f at about 2445. Is your a typo or are you talking about some other game than Stars!?
BR, Iztok

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