Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game
Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Mon, 17 January 2011 00:03 |
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Celebrinbor1 | | Crewman 2nd Class | Messages: 11
Registered: January 2011 | |
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Hello. I am brand new to this game. I am very seriously considering (95% sure) joining the Fledgling Admirals VII game. I was wondering if I could get some help building a race that will be at least viable in that game. Forbidden races are AR and PP. Universe size: small packed (240 stars in a 800x800-ly-universe), distant starting positions
Starting conditions: ACC BBS
Victory conditions: Last Man/Last Team standing or consensus. Winning team mustn't exceed 2 players.
I would like my race to make me valuable in an alliance as this is my only hope of surviving. I would prefer to be either SS (yes I know that they are tough to use but I like stealth), IT, or CA although I would be more than happy to try another race. I am not good with micromanagement and as such I prefer quality to quantity in regards to planets and fleets.
I also need a suggestion for a good initial research order and a good default build order to use for my race. I've tried looking for various suggestions and am having a hard time finding them because so many links are now dead. I have read the Official Strategy Guide, all the resources I could find on SS, all the links on the Fledgling Admirals VII post, and many other articles however any suggestions would be great.
Thanks in advance.
PS: I used this race against the computer the other day and liked it a lot: LRTs - IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
Hab - Grav = 0.31g - 3.210g Temp = -124C - 124C Rad = 59mR - 99mR
Growth 17% 1 in 5 hab range
Pop resources 1/1000
Factories - 14/9/18
Mines - 10/3/18
Tech is all 75% starting at Level 3 except Electronics Normal.
PS: very important: where can I find a list of abbreviations?
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Mon, 17 January 2011 00:54 |
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Ron | | Commander Forum Administrator Stars! AutoHost Administrator | Messages: 1232
Registered: October 2002 Location: Collegedale, TN | |
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Many (all?) are here. http://starsfaq.com/abbreviations.htm
(edit: fixed url)
[Updated on: Mon, 17 January 2011 09:34]
Ron Miller
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Mon, 17 January 2011 07:00 |
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Yeah, I'd advise Weapons and Construction cheap as a general rule...
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Thu, 20 January 2011 04:37 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
I have a bit of time and am in a dissection mood, so let me pick your race apart :
Quote: | SS
LRTs - IFE, NRSE, OBRM, NAS
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So far so good.
Quote: | Hab - Grav = 0.31g - 3.210g Temp = -124C - 124C Rad = 59mR - 99mR
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You're losing a half of rad terra here. It isn't really much, but in the game that could make around 3 yellow planets less.
Quote: | Growth 17% 1 in 5 hab range
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A bit low growth for that kind of hab.
Quote: | Pop resources 1/1000
Factories - 14/9/18
Mines - 10/3/18
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Somewhat unusual factories. I'd rather go 12/9/16. Significantly less RW points spent for that.
Quote: | Tech is all 75% starting at Level 3 except Electronics Normal.
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Suicide.
Consider this: for the same tech one player has cheap, he will research it for 100 resources, but you with expensive tech will need to invest 350 resources. You'll be fighting wars with your pointed sticks, while your opponents will be using rifles. When you'll get rifles, they'll be already using tanks and jet-bombers. And you'll never get tanks, because you'll be eliminated from the game by those tanks and jet-bombers.
The rule of thumb for virtually any game is "weapons mandatory cheap, rest whatever one can afford". If you'll have strong econ, you could compensate for other expensive techs, since early warfaring techs aren't so expensive to get. But your race doesn't have neither good econ nor cheap techs. In a beginner game you could get away with it, but I wouldn't give you lots of chances.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Fri, 21 January 2011 04:47] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Fri, 21 January 2011 02:21 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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If you want to go with IFE and NRSE, I would recommend taking Grav Immune. Combined, these mean you can leave Prop expensive, as it will be a low priority until your economy hits its stride.
For best results with 1 Immune, try a 1/7 hab (with temp ~twice as wide as Rad (Temp at least 5 clicks from edge & Rad at least 7)) and consider 18 or 19% MPGR (each of those clicks are cheaper than the click to 20%). Take Weapons cheap, and the narrow Rad range will give you awesomely efficient terraforming. This will give you fewer but better planets early on (reducing both MM and places to defend, but will catch up to 1/5 in numbers with fast terraforming -3 yellows when it is time).
For factories, 12 eff is a good investment combined with OBRM and a minimum of 16 operated. If you choose 13 or more operated, you will want to check the less Germ box.
Definitely want Weapons cheap, and most probably want Con normal or better. This can still justify the start at 3 (at least three fields expensive for it to pay off at all).
Good luck.
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Fri, 21 January 2011 11:24 |
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Celebrinbor1 wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 06:03 | I would prefer to be either SS...
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Are you aware that all the other players from FAVII can and most likely will read this thread, too?
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Sun, 23 January 2011 17:25 |
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Would any of the gurus here try and dissect my suggestion here?
The Guild / Guildmen
SS
IFE, NRSE, ARM, NAS
G 0,33 t o4,40
T -72C to 136C
R 32mR to 84mR
PGR 16%, Hab 1 in 5 initially
Res 1/1100
Factories 15/8/17,G checked
Mines 5/15/5 (worst)
Weap/Con/Elec cheap, rest expensive and start at 3.
0 leftover.
This is basically an attempt to create a very HP-ish SS race out there (a fully settled 100% planet gives 3459 res in total). Minerals would be acquired by remote mining and theft.
Celebrinbor1, if you feel like it, why not test this one? My bro has recently set it up against my AR and 14 tough AIs and... well... it was fun
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Sun, 23 January 2011 19:19 |
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loucipher wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 14:25 |
Mines 5/15/5 (worst)
Minerals would be acquired by remote mining and theft.
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Critique, short version:
Long version:
Without an immediate, cost-effective source of minerals, you won't be able to build any factories or mining ships to get more minerals, to say nothing of the actual transports and warships you'll need in droves too. This race would be dead on arrival.
Go for something like 11/3/16 mines - tone down the factories and up the growth for a HG, or bring the population efficiency to 1/2500 for HP to pay for useable mine settings. This should get you enough minerals to get started so you can actually put ARM to use. However... since you shouldn't be relying on remote mining too heavily, and aren't AR, you would probably do better to dump ARM and use the normal miners.
If you're used to playing the AI, you can learn some bad habits due to never having to face a real military threat or aggressive expansionism. That's probably a big factor here. Playing against people with a couple MP games under their belt will give you a new perspective.
[Updated on: Sun, 23 January 2011 19:25] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Sun, 23 January 2011 19:28 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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loucipher wrote on Sun, 23 January 2011 14:25 |
The Guild / Guildmen
SS
IFE, NRSE, ARM, NAS
G 0,33 t o4,40
T -72C to 136C
R 32mR to 84mR
PGR 16%, Hab 1 in 5 initially
Res 1/1100
Factories 15/8/17,G checked
Mines 5/15/5 (worst)
Weap/Con/Elec cheap, rest expensive and start at 3.
0 leftover.
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With only a cursory examination, I would recommend:
Narrower Rad band (this will make terraforming more efficient),
Narrower overall hab (1/5 is high for an HP),
Colonist efficiency: 1/1000 or 1/2500 (imo, the points in between are not worth it),
Factory efficiency above 12 is not usually justified unless # operated is at least 19 (You might better use the points elsewhere),
I would not recommend taking mines worse than 10/3/12 (even w/ ARM, you need minerals to build miners).
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Wed, 09 February 2011 06:12 |
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iztok | | Commander | Messages: 1210
Registered: April 2003 Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
Celebrinbor1 wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 05:28 | ...Generalized Research
| This is a very special trait. In short games it prevents you to get to needed techs fast. In long games its benfits are wasted on all tech-26 fields. It comes handy only in quite special circumstances, like games with several 10 forced-gen turns.
Quote: | Gravity: 1.00-8.00
Temp: -24-200
Rad: 66-100
| Silly hab. You're losing all terra on the right side. As a rule of thumb you set all habs at least 15 "clicks" from the edge, and grav and temp more than 15, because first and last 10 "clicks" there are less likely to be generated.
Quote: | 15/8/12
factories cost 1kt less is checked
| Way too efficient factories for the number you can operate. This settings would be good for a QuickStart race, that intends to go on rampage very eary. Also, for 12 factories operated is the "cost 3 germ checked" only marginally usefull.
Mines cost 3, period. Only when you'll really know what you're doing, you may change that number.
Quote: | ...I then build about 10-12 scouts with the warp 4 engan and two chameleon scanners and have them explore the galixy.
| ... or just give your neighbours, that will be shooting down those scouts, some free levels in elec.
Quote: | My plan is that in a multiplayer game, this will give me an advantage because I can sell this info to other players.
| You know, most players are intersted only in planets, close to them, and will not pay for the info on planets 500 LY far. And close planets they can scout for themself. A better bet for trade would be those pen-scanning scouts of yours.
I'd suggest you for a start to try a fairly simple HG design with decent econ and speed, that will live by trading tech, pen scanners and SS toys, and will also allow some intersettling if needed:
SS
IFE, NRSE, OBRM, RS (no NAS, it gives only 25 points)
grav 0.31 to 3.20
temp -120 to 120
rad 16 to 46 (1-in-7, with terra-11 in all 3 fields 1-in-2)
PGR 18%
factories 12/9/13/4
mines 10/3/14 (1 more mine to compensate a bit for 4g/factory)
weap and con cheap,
en and elec normal,
prop and bio expensive
15 remaining points to mineral concentrations.
I'd suggest you to testbed it with at least one AI, so you'll see the impact of the SS tech-steal bonus, then change some settings a bit (~50 RW points changes) and testbed some more, so you get the feeling for race behaviour. It would be good to test in the same universe, so you'd eliminate the impact of random planet draw.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2011 06:56] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Wed, 09 February 2011 09:30 |
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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 05:05 |
Another point to consider is that good heavy production races usually compare themselves by the amount of resources they can produce by 2450... And not early 3000. I think the median is 50k by 2450.
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Well, the game has already started, so I'm guessing your advise will go in making his race for the next game.
I did want to ask.. 50k by 2450?????? In a tiny, packed universe?
Just asking because I could get to only 30-35k
Even if it's a pure HP race, won't that mean a really slow start for the beginning 30 years? Seeing this is a tiny packed universe with NINE players, isn't it going to see some action from 2420-25 itself?
This type of pure HP race will have a really tough time, methinks.
Please teach me, oh grand masters, so I can become better.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
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Re: Help me choose and design a race for the Fledgling Admirals VII game |
Wed, 09 February 2011 10:21 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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Eagle of Fire wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 11:05 | other player who picked CON and WEP cheap and everything else expensive will have battleships with weapons almost twice the power of yours knocking at your door by the time you begin to toy with cruisers. And probably Nubians by the time you are beginning to be comfortable with battleships.
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Don't underestimate the power or lower hulls against bigger but less tech-balanced hulls! Shields, Comps, and even Engines count, and many's the BB that's been killed by a few well-designed CCs, particularly if its debris yielded useful new tech.
Nub fleets can be beaten by BB fleets, even if it's not a proposition for the faint of heart. Nubians aren't the be-all and end-all, particularly if most of their tech isn't as developed as Weaponry.
Been there, done that, got the tech boost.
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