gible, not exactly what I had in mind, like this only you can edit the message and add new bugs. Other people will only be able to add bugs when replying to your message, bringing a lot of other comments and questions into the thread (that's why I'm starting a new one, also not an optimal idea, but trying not to polute the original thread).
Anyway all the new replies with some off topic comments would make it a real mess and hard to find out where the new added bugs are, unless other posters are very clear about this (which I doubt, sorry guys!).

I've seen this in the SEIV forum (the sticky threads for newbies), all the experts posting new stuff, losing the order, not knowing who is replying to who, as a newbie you get lost and can't see the forest because of all the trees blocking the view! Very discouraging to try to find your way through such a mess. One of the few things which I gave up trying, but main reason because the game is not nearly as good as Stars! so why invest all that energy when you are already playing something better? ...

I wouldn't want to see that happening here. Best in _my_humble_ opinion is that only ONE person can add/edit to always the _same_ posting, or that one person replying to the original post (the copy from the Stars!FAQ) so you can see when a new bug is added and which one ...
Very clear, very simple, no confusion.
Hm, maybe even a seperate bugs forum where people can post and discuss new bugs while one message still remains the sticky and gets regular updates (edit or reply).

That one person would probably be Ron, and this is his forum so I guess we'll have to say what he thinks about it (if he has time to be bothered with it, I would understand if this is something that is too much to take with all the good work he is already doing)

kind regards,
mch

[Edit: mis-spelled gibles name fixed now!]

[Updated on: Sat, 22 February 2003 19:22]

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[Updated on: Sat, 22 February 2003 22:39]

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Ron wrote on Sun, 23 February 2003 04:38

Remember, you can always check out 'tree' view mode, which should show you a threaded tree structure, to see who is replying to whom. (thread mode in the current version (2.3.5) of this forum software does have a few bugs, so I wouldn't stay in thread mode)

I'm always using that but still find it doesn't work like it should. Replies still seem a little off, but maybe that's because people are replying to the first post but their message is actually a reply to a post further in the thread

Quote:

Quoting can help a lot when replying so people know who and what part of their message you are replying to.

Sure if people would do that with a little discipline ... but this is not always the case, and without quotes I've seen several replies in which I had no clue to what the person was replying
Mabye that's just me, maybe because I'm not English and miss some of the finer reference details ... but there are a lot of non-English Stars! players out there.

A thread purely listing the bugs used in the way it is set up now should be clear of any polution like off topic remarks, people asking questions about the bugs already in the list or endless discussion about if something is a new bug or not will make the final exact bug description disappear somewhere within 30 posts
Like I said the I found the same setup on the SEIV forum and it was a complete mess ... scaring away the newbies
Discussions should take please in another thread and when done the result placed with the other bugs in the original list (edit or reply, and done by ONE person).

Well, maybe I'm just a seeing things too dark, I just would hate to see such a helpfull item go to waste ...
And there are probably not too many other bugs to add anyway ... so the mess might not be that big

Another thing that might be interesting to add to a more of a "cheat" list are the cheats that have nothing to do with the game engine itself.
I recently met someone who believes that if something is not explicitly forbidden by the host it is allowed, he would join a game with two races or a pre-game alliance if the host didn't said up front it was forbidden. Now things like that scare me! He felt he was in his absolute right while this is _to_me_ definately cheating!
This would mean that hosts would have to list each and every possible situation over and over again, having it here to refer to would be a great help, especially since it wouldn't be the individual host making up that list but the whole Stars! community (or at least the part that reads the forum).

With "list all possible situations" I mean for example: two players in an alliance, one player decide to drop, he gives his password to his ally who either plays the race to the end instead of looking for a replacement (having an unfair advantage over a normal alliance between two players which has to deal with all possible miscommunications and other sort of stuff), or in _my_ opinion worse: lift all pop of the drop-out race and have a friendly take-over of the planets, denying the other players to take their share of the drop-out!

One player = one race (unless temporary absence of an ally), this is to me the standard of Stars! games UNLESS the hosts says otherwise before the game starts, and NOT the other way around ...

regards,
mch

[Updated on: Sun, 23 February 2003 05:59]

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Ron wrote on Sat, 22 February 2003 21:38

Remember, you can always check out 'tree' view mode, which should show you a threaded tree structure, to see who is replying to whom. (thread mode in the current version (2.3.5) of this forum software does have a few bugs, so I wouldn't stay in thread mode)

Yes if people would use the forum different. But as Micha said later, people are apparently replying to the last message in the thread, not the one they are answering.
Therefore we are left in a tree dilemma of sorts and sorting here. Kind of like the little tree that popped up between the birch tree and the beech tree. Is the little tree a son of a birch or a son of a beech?

Quote:

Quoting can help a lot when replying so people know who and what part of their message you are replying to.

Yep, except, don't you really love it when people quote the whole message. Maybe the quote can be limited to like the first three pages? I am looking forward to more postings from Stalwart so I can quote a couple of his chapters. And then someone can quote my quote.
But alas, since Stalwart has turned moderatabubble he has given up writing for editing. Of course this does save me many hours a week reading the messages. I love this galaxy.

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BlueTurbit wrote on Sun, 23 February 2003 09:01

But alas, since Stalwart has turned moderatabubble he has given up writing for editing. Of course this does save me many hours a week reading the messages. I love this galaxy.

I just heard from him yesterday. He's ill at the moment, and is having trouble with work, among other things.

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Ron wrote on Sat, 22 February 2003 21:44

Someone should post a list of known JRC4 bugs. 1. SS can only steal minerals manually, not by giving advance orders.

In tests advance orders work as long as the fuel and colonist parts of transfer are set to 'no action'. Auto transfer minerals only.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2003 22:02]

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BlueTurbit wrote on Thu, 27 February 2003 21:19

Ron wrote on Sat, 22 February 2003 21:44 Someone should post a list of known JRC4 bugs. 1. SS can only steal minerals manually, not by giving advance orders. In tests advance orders work as long as the fuel and colonist parts of transfer are set to 'no action'. Auto transfer minerals only.

Are you sure you are generating the turn with JRC4?

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Ron wrote on Fri, 28 February 2003 09:13

Are you sure you are generating the turn with JRC4?

When it comes to Stars! patches I am never sure about anything as they seem to be constantly evolving. I downloaded the JRC4 patch from AutoHost and ran it, it comes up with a different startup screen, 2.6j? Using testbed races I tried stealing minerals and pop in every way imaginable from planets and ships using pickpocket and robber baron ships. I was unsuccessful in all cases except where I had both fuel and colonist transfer set to null. Never could do a colonist transfer as can be done in the JRC3 patch. I also e-mailed you some testbed files earlier using several methods for you to run and verify JRC4 with SS and AR bombing. However, you replied via e-mail and asked me if I had tried using JRC4, so... I did. Am I sure yet, no? If it is more complicated than this then I give up because I haven't got a raise in a long time and the pay really ain't that good.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 February 2003 10:35]

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I received your files, and will look at them later this week after my folks leave. I'm helping my dad move stuff from his old computer to his new one.

Quote:

If it is more complicated than this then I give up because I haven't got a raise in a long time and the pay really ain't that good.

Amen to that brother! The pay is lousy, but I'll keep running this site anyway.

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Ron wrote on Sun, 02 March 2003 01:12

I received your files, and will look at them later this week after my folks leave. I'm helping my dad move stuff from his old computer to his new one.

Tell him I send my regrets, er regards. Does he know what happened when you moved the forum?

Quote:

Amen to that brother! The pay is lousy, but I'll keep running this site anyway.

You don't fool me. I know you got pay pal.

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I am curious about one thing. If somebody created patches (JRC3, JRC4 for example), so this guy must have known the code to patch it, right? So why other bugs were still not corrected?
I guess it would be pretty difficult to correct Split Fleet Dodge logic, but Cheap Starbase or N-S, E-W minefields immunity bugs for example should be easy to correct if some one knows the code.

Hmm...

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Nexus One wrote on Tue, 25 March 2003 16:18

I am curious about one thing. If somebody created patches (JRC3, JRC4 for example), so this guy must have known the code to patch it, right? So why other bugs were still not corrected? I guess it would be pretty difficult to correct Split Fleet Dodge logic, but Cheap Starbase or N-S, E-W minefields immunity bugs for example should be easy to correct if some one knows the code. Hmm...

The code itself has not been published an never will be ...
"This guy" is JeffMC himself And IIRC he said that trying to fix bugs will make new ones ...

regards,
mch

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Micha wrote on Tue, 25 March 2003 17:04

"This guy" is JeffMC himself And IIRC he said that trying to fix bugs will make new ones ... regards, mch

Thanks for info.

I suspected "the guy" must be someone either of good code hacking skills or from Stars! makers crew.

Well, I think that debugging Cheap Starbase would be worth trying (IMHO, the most tricky one due to poor detectability and game spoiling feature - I know some will disagree ). With the little help of volunteer army of us all we could perform betatesting of the patch for potencial bugs inflicted, before make it public offically.
Just a thought.

BTW, Did JRC4 patch create more bugs? Anyone knows?

Regarsd,
Feliks

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