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Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 05:00 Go to next message
Abaddon is currently offline Abaddon

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 25
Registered: May 2003
Location: London, England

Is mining to remote for you?[ 28 votes ]
1. Yes I love to remote mine! 7 / 25%
2. Waste of a lesser racial trait? 9 / 32%
3. Just too much damn effort? 3 / 11%
4. Its a waste of effort AND an LRT 9 / 32%

I love to remote mine! I love the thought of all those little robots slaving away on remote worlds to give me minerals for warships so I can kill! maim! destroy! Ha Ha, ahem, (cough cough)
Sorry, got carried away there.... Embarassed

Anyway, when designing races I like to save a few points on the habitability settings (always useful!) and sacrifice some of the mining settings to boost the factory settings. The upshoot of that is that while there are quite a few planets my dark hordes can't survive on I can always remote mine for what I need.

The lesser racial trait 'Advanced remote mining' is relatively cheap and saves so much manufacturing power and minerals I don't like to go without it but I'd like some other opinions on this matter.....


[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2003 06:58]




-------------------------------------------------
Revelation 9
verse 10: They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sinla is currently offline Sinla

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 132
Registered: February 2003
Location: the Netherlands
IMO:
it's a waste of an LRT
AND
too much damn effort

Could you make a fourth with these 2 are combined, I'll vote then Cool



If you can't beat me... Run away...

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
djhakase is currently offline djhakase

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 119
Registered: March 2003
Location: Australia

I always try to design so that I can intercolonise with people. No better way to secure an alliance! In that case, there isn't really much place for remote miners.

I am beginning to learn the importance of mining, thanks to my current MP games - maybe something I could go for?

Still, it's pretty much either/or - ARM or OBRM. Having neither just seems too expensive for those mining robots.

It'd be interesting if ARM & OBRM together would just take away the standard mining robots & hulls - kind of like IFE & NRSE takes away the Galaxy Scoop - leaving only the Midget Miner, Robo-Midget Miner, and Robo-Ultra-Miner.

What if one takes neither ARM or OBRM and takes BET instead? Does the miniturisation make those mining robots more affordable?


[Updated on: Tue, 24 June 2003 10:07]




they made me do it

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve is currently offline Steve

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 217
Registered: November 2002
Location: 40 deg N, 90 deg W
Unless you are playing AR, someone is allways colonizing your mining planets!

Besides, I like the extra 10% population and extra 10% mines.



No trees were harmed in the making of this sig. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Taubat is currently offline The Taubat

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002
IMO, its a wast of points AND rescources, unless you are an AR in wich case you kinda need to, further detracting from the AR attractiveness as a viable PRT.


Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat people

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sinla is currently offline Sinla

 
Warrant Officer

Messages: 132
Registered: February 2003
Location: the Netherlands
thanks for option 4... Now I could vote Wink

My reasons are pretty summed up above.
But ofcourse I forgot that AR is broken w/o ARM.
But then again, never tried that (I will very soon!).

Cheers



If you can't beat me... Run away...

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Oh my! What well-respected, sentient being doesn't like to remote mine?

Who the heck can design a competitive race that includes affordable remote mining?

Trade-offs! Trade-offs! It's all about trade-offs! (Hmmm, catchy tune there somewheres)

As I once't mentioned, one of my funnest games was playing a SS HP with ARM. If you can understand that sentence, then we both need to get a life! Laughing All those resources and minerals during the end game that I even gave the winning AR next door a really hard time. If the game had not shut down due to a loss of player and a replacement that did not understand me Twisted Evil , I would have clearly won that game. (Clearly, a statement based on OPINION and not necessarily fact, but then I don't have a problem expressing, or showing, mine now do I?)

However, to be very fair, it is much easier to up the mine settings to a minimum of 10/3/15 and set the hab range wide and just create a HG fool of a planet colonizer. My problem is that I never like doing things the easy way.

That's just not the cowboy way! Nana nana bubu my 2 cents

With respectful, kind regards ...

The Crusader Angel



Nothing for now.

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Tue, 24 June 2003 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hatterson is currently offline Hatterson

 
Warrant Officer
Past Weekly Puzzle Master

Messages: 121
Registered: May 2003
Location: NY, USA

I find that if you take OBRM and then get lucky and have the MT give you alien-miners early, remote mining is incredible. Not only are those little alien minning ships nice and cheap (on well developed planets you can produce 30-40 in one year), they are also gateable. This means that if you have mined out one section of your empire you can gate all of your ships to a different section in a matter of years.

I find that the extra minerals produced and shiped by remote-mining are indespensible in the late game when you are trying to produce as many warships as possible as quick as possible.



"Don't be so humble - you are not that great. " - Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Wed, 25 June 2003 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
I didn't see "sometimes" listed as an option, so I didn't vote.

I RARELY pass on the OBRM lrt, and I despise the OBRM miners, so I rarely remote mine. I never rule out remote mining at the beginning of race creation - I just can never afford it in the end. I only rule it out once I go into the game with an OBRM race. There's no way I'm going to invest all the minerals and resources required to produce a fleet of OBRM miners who will need roughly what? about 800 years to pay for theirselves? (Freestyle Math)

However, I took over a race created by someone else not long ago that had neither OBRM or ARM selected, and when I could build the best remote mining robots and the best mining hull, I did. I found them very useful for mineral extraction (I easily had far more minerals than the limited production of my planets could use) and the ships were highly valuable to some other players. Now I better understand the benefit of NOT taking OBRM. When building these monster-sized remote miners, one can fully appreciate the oft-ignored, cheapo radscoop engine.

ARM, on the other hand, is an LRT that I've never appreciated - except with the AR prt. It doesn't cost a lot, the miners are more efficient, smaller, and cheaper to build, but most importantly, you begin with two free miners. That in itself is a godsend for the poor AR, whose idea of remoteless mining seems to include the use of fingernails, or maybe blowing on the ground, then catching and sifting the dust that arises for mineral content.

I havn't checked the poll results yet, but I'm going to venture a guess and then check to see if the results support my belief. I'm guessing most people prefer HG and -f economic models, making the +10% pop capacity of OBRM attractive, the RW points (needed for habitat) gained from OBRM attractive, therefore reducing remote mining to a waste of effort, minerals and resources by most counts. ARM might be an attractive lrt, but most prefer the extra capacity and the points from OBRM, and you can't have both, so ARM is an extravagance that few think they can afford. If ARM was a free lrt gained only by not taking OBRM, my opinion is that more than a few players would probably still opt for OBRM instead. That certainly sums up my own sentiments, and I'm an HG player (albeit a lousy one). Wink

I suspect HP's, on the other hand, are more evenly split on the issue of remote mining. My guess is that players who play AR's and HP economies will be the overwhelming majority of users who use remote mining. This is not me. But if I WERE an HP player, I wouldn't rule out remote mining.

As for that MT fella (HATTERSON!).... Grrrr! I don't even want to hear about the MT. The MT frees everyone of their PRT & LRT burdens, except for the HE. You don't see the MT handing out the "Super-Duper-Trans-Galactic-Ship-Whoosher" Any/Any Gate so the HE can overcome his sacrifices for a paltry 5k boranium, do ya? Twisted Evil It's not fair and I hate him. Unfortunately, a game without random events seems like heresy. I stand alone on this one as the lone heretic, I'm convinced.

Editting - The following addition:
Okay, checked the count and it's 13 against and 5 for remote mining atm. I think that's an indication that maybe Shocked my opinion is right for once. Probably 1 or 2 who voted for will build remote miners even with OBRM selected, and the other 3-4 who play AR's and HP's. Whaddaya say, guys? You who voted for remote mining, want to tell me your favored economic model?


[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2003 01:11]




I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Wed, 25 June 2003 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 906
Registered: November 2002
Location: Pacific NW

Advanced Remote mining, imho, is generally a waste of resources -the main benefit it gives you is gateable miners, the increased efficiency of the bots isn't worth the cost, better to buy some planetary mines.
If I plan on remote mining, I generally will take neither OBRM or ARM. Usually I play races that are meant to be either winning or dead before remote mining begins to pay off in any case, but if I need an HP then I'll put it on the short list.
If you have the capability to remote mine then by all means do so. It may be more micromanagement, but if you're going to spend the RW points for it you'd better get to using them, you'll be more powerful for it.


[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2003 02:13]

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Wed, 25 June 2003 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paladin is currently offline Paladin

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2003
Location: Kentucky

Remote mining is OK sometimes but ARM is too costly so if I remote mine, it will be with neither ARM or OBRM checked. Now I have have on occasion taken an IT race with a narrow far shifted hab in a game with lots of planets per person, with the strategy of inter populated with just about everybody and buying my way into territory with miners/minerals. In the end I colonized virtually every planet in the galaxy that was good for me and once I had any/any gates started picking off the other races. It was amazing the amount of minerals I had to use. However, this strategy would not work frequently.

Basically, remote mining goes well with hab setting below 1 in 5 so you can get use of all the planets in your territory.

Paladin my 2 cents


[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2003 08:32]




"There is no substitute for Integrity"

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Wed, 25 June 2003 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Abaddon is currently offline Abaddon

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 25
Registered: May 2003
Location: London, England
I tend to go for a hp strategy with slightly lower hab settings so I find the ARM option saves a lot of expense getting the minerals you need to feed my core production worlds. You know the ones... cheap starbases that churn out warships... Twisted Evil

Without ARM, RM is too expensive to bother with despite the obvious benefits (You know you want those lovely minerals! Very Happy )
And ARM isn't that expensive.

I was suprised to see I'm out voted on this one... Do you suppose it all boils down to Hp versus HG tactics?



-------------------------------------------------
Revelation 9
verse 10: They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. 11 They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Wed, 25 June 2003 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
boneandrew is currently offline boneandrew

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 35
Registered: June 2003
Location: Detroit
I like to remote mine. It's the only place in the game where I can get mines that are recyclable - moving to fresh souces instead of having 'em stuck at that planet with all 1 concentrations.

Perhaps a lot of people don't like 'em because miners cost a LOT of ironium and a bit of germanium. And the reason most people really need hordes of minerals to build those missile ships. So, a lot of people just don't build miners to save some short-term ironium. But, a game example for me: a mini-miner hull with 2 maxi-miners, fuel mizer, and fuel pod costs 87kt iromium, and mines 17kt of ironium per turn from a planet with 49 concentration. This is 5.1 turns to pay it back - usually, I'm mining planets with a higher concentration than this if I can help it, and of course we all like to use those higher tech miners. After that, free minerals. In the long term, remote mining certainly does help out the mineral supply. It's better than colonizing those -4.5% worlds and waiting for the population to feebly squeeze the minerals out of the planet.

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Fri, 27 June 2003 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deuce is currently offline Deuce

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 94
Registered: June 2003
I'm playing a game now (around 2440) where a huge comet hit a planet near my homeworld. (oh those poor colonists...)
It rendered the planet uninhabitable, but pushed the mineral concentrations to something like 170/120/150

Even with OBRM, I've sent some miners thataway Very Happy

With these concentrations, it only takes 5 years for the miners to pay for themselves. Woohoo!

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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Fri, 27 June 2003 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
If the game is smaller and does not last any longer than 90 turns then taking 10/3/17 mines will give you *all* the minerals that you ever need. OBRM will give 85 whopping points and make your pop levels 10% higher.

Remote mining may be useful sometimes. In large/huge universes, where most people avoid serious fighting until 2460 anyway. Have 10/3/14 mines (you need to build the factories) and drop the OBRM. That gives decent remote mining ability at the battleship era. Still the "mine" at miner costs you 4 resources + 2 minerals + ship design. Your neighbours build them for 3 resources and no minerals. I prefer 11/3/17 mines (read to swim in minerals anyway) + 10% higher pop levels and bye bye to the remote mining until MT gives me alien miners.

As for ARM... it costs 50 points as sole lrt but people usually take lots of LRT-s so for example as 5th LRT it costs 70 points.

Even with AR prt the ARM can be a waste of points. You can make one tech half cheaper with these points instead. With ARM-less AR you can build the mini-miner with qj5 and one construction 7 miner quite early, starting from turn 15-20 it is almost gateable when you get 300/500 gate and you do not need these miners in huge numbers. About 10 fleets of 223 ships can keep your mineral output better than that of your neighbours until turn 80 or so. Late in game the miner will cost you 40 resources, you double your mineral output with 2 years whenever needed.


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Re: Remote mining.... Do you? Sun, 06 July 2003 12:53 Go to previous message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

I'll keep my post short and sweet...

remote mining like all things in stars... depends on the situation/race/game.

If i'm desperate for minerals... bugger it.. i'll do anything.

If I have a wide hab band i'll take ORBM and get 10% extra resources + minerals from the worlds I can take and bugger the ones I can't.

Remote mining is required for AR... so don't take ORBM.

but lets ignore AR because thats a different thread.


If I get the alien miner I'll do it. If I don't and I have wide hab... I wont. If I have small hab, I will remote mine. If I'm SS bugger mining... I'll steal it.

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