Home » Old Game Forums » Bab5v2 team » Shadow alliance: communication
| Shadow alliance: communication |
Thu, 22 March 2007 01:56  |
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At the moment we believe the Shadow alliance to consist of:
- Shadows
- Dilgar
- Centauri
- Independent Mars
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2007 02:16] Report message to a moderator
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| 2451: Gaim to Independent Mars |
Thu, 22 March 2007 01:57  |
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<Gaim Translatronic 0.51 beta>
Dear Little Green Men,
the Gaim contact you as the current speaker for the League of Free Worlds alliance with an offer to join.
As you know through your scouting the Elders are moving out of their eon-long slumber and have started colonizing and recruiting their servants.
A league of free worlds has formed that wants to stay independant and not do the Elder´s bidding. We are currently a core of 5 races that have pledged to cooperate and not join an alliance of the elders even if offered membership later on. Efforts of tech exchange and co-habitation to make the most out of available planets has begun.
We think that the Martians would make an excellent addition to our team. If you decide to join we can offer you technology as well as the potential to intersettle peacefully with other alliance members, along with mutual defense treaties efforts of course.
You have a very good position in the NW corner with enough room to grow for now and should you join you´d have 2 edges and a secure southern border with only the eastern border towards the Shadows and the Dilgar to worry about and secure. As you know we are IS and would contribute speed trap minelayers to the defense of this border should it become neccessary.
Your neighbor the Dilgar have received technological aid by the Shadows but have not made firm commitment to an alliance according to our information network. But no matter what the Dilgar do, we firmly believe that we can forge a very strong, free alliance that might in the end even have more members than the minimum and leave the elders short of minions to do their bidding and serve as their proxies in their old conflict.
We apologise that we will not name the other alliance members for now until you give an indication whether you are interested in joining or not as we do not want to invite repercussions by the elders should you decide to be their servant and abuse the trust we place upon you. The Gaim feel entrenched enough to act as the spokespersons for now.
Gaim Council of Hive Queens
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| 2439-53: Shadow - Spoo communication |
Thu, 22 March 2007 02:15 |
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| 2439: Shadows to Spoo |
Greetings to SPOOmun Complat
Shadows view scouts scouting. The universe is large and distances great. Shadows wish you well and hope your species prosper.
If Centauri minerals may cause difficulties - Shadows will assist with Centauri negotiation.
Be advised and forwarned that there are Vorlons in this galaxy. Vorlons operate by adjusting the minds of other races to believe that Vorlons are Gods or Angels.
Should you wish to reject this mind control, Shadows may help.
Shadows...
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| 2439: Spoo answering Shadows |
> Be advised and forwarned that there are Vorlons in this galaxy.
O we are seeing them, so many ships, dozens. They must be very mighty. But we do not see any Shadows.
> Vorlons operate by adjusting the minds of other races to believe that Vorlons are Gods or Angels.
You say the Vorlons are no Gods but that we make them Gods through our minds?
SPOO says that everything there is, we can only understand through our mind and thus it is as if our mind creates all what is.
So, you, too, have learned the wisdom of SPOO?
> Should you wish to reject this mind control, Shadows may help.
Mind control is evil, so says SPOO.
But we don't know what to do against all those Vorlon ships. SPOO says we must arm ourselves. But SPOO has said so only recently and most of our time before was spent on meditating, not arming ourselves.
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No further message came from the Shadows. Thus SPOO decided, in 2450, to regain the attention of the Shadows by shooting down one of the Shadow FFs.
| 2451: Shadows to Spoo |
Greetings SPOOmun Coomplat,
Is there some specific reason that SPOOmun Complat is shooting at unarmed Shadow scout vessels in their errand of finding Vorlon outposts? - if so, please let us know.
Shadows...
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| 2451: Spoo answering Shadows |
> Is there some specific reason that SPOOmun Complat is shooting at unarmed Shadow scout vessels in their errand of finding Vorlon outposts?
The lingering FF wasn't meant as a friendly tech boost?
Oh... what a disappointing misinterpretation.
If you are looking for help finding Vorlon outposts, perhaps we can forge a kind of agreement? So far we have discovered 6 Vorlon planets...
Sigh,
SPOO (one of many)
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| 2451: Shadows to Spoo |
What type of agrement would SPOOmun Complat wish to form?
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Grrr, those stubborn bastards... for the moment I am out of words.
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| Re: Shadow alliance: communication |
Mon, 26 March 2007 14:07 |
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| 2456 from Shadows to SPOOmun Complat |
SPOOmun Complat vessels shall be destroyed should they enter Shadow Domains.
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| 2456 from Shadows to all |
... Due to recent events, all SPOOmun Complat ships must be destroyed on entering Shadow areas. SPOOmun Complat has agressively destroyed Shadow vessels on peaceful duties and, we note that this has been assisted by Vorlons.
Shadows will defend Shadow space - All races are advised to push down SPOOmun Complat vessels and, Shadows will help were help is available.
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| 2456 from Shadows to all |
Galactic Transmission:
SPOOmun Complat regularly destroys Shadow scouting vessels. Shadows will now destroy any SPOOmun Complat vessels around the Shadow sector in response.
Shadows certainly have the right to defend themselves.
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I have the impression that, after carfully analysing those messages, it's possible to detect a hidden undertone of aggressiveness against the SPOOmun Complat.
[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2007 09:55] Report message to a moderator
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| 2456: from SPOOmun Complat to Shadows |
Mon, 26 March 2007 15:54 |
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I am thinking about sending the following message to the Shadows, 2456:
| Quote: |
> SPOOmun Complat vessels shall be destroyed should they enter Shadow Domains.
SPOO does not want to see the galaxy taken over by the Vorlons... nor probably by the Shadows since they seem not to care about us. We are also surprised about the conclusions the Shadows draw by seeing the Vorlons passing tech to SPOO. SPOO always thought that the Shadows were aware who are the real allies of the Vorlons.
SPOO thinks the Shadows are too busy seeing the enemy in the young and weak races instead of discovering that those could be also temporary allies and even willing to help the weaker side... which SPOO, so far, sees rather in the Shadows.
SPOO repeatedly tried to get in contact with the Shadows but they seem to be stubborn and when we try to form agreements, they aren't interested.
SPOO doesn't know how to react and thinks it's best to mediate what can be still done to save the galaxy from the Vorlons without the help of the Shadows.
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Comments?
[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2007 18:36] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Shadow alliance: communication |
Mon, 26 March 2007 20:31 |
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I am about to write a new major strategy paper. Who knows, maybe we can actually increase our chances in this game.
The suggested message to the Shadows is good but I'd like you to consider what I have to say before sending it.
PS This may take an hour or two for me to fully formulate the suggested strategy.
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| 2457 from Centauri to SPOOmun Complat |
Tue, 27 March 2007 09:54 |
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| 2457: from Centauri to SPOOmun Complat |
Since you were not content to wait for the Shadow ship to be scrapped you have killed 120,000 Centauri. This means war, of course, and we will begin preparations to destroy your worlds forthwith. Expect no mercy, only genocide.
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| Re: 2457 from Centauri to SPOOmun Complat |
Tue, 27 March 2007 15:14 |
|
 Skaffen |
 | Senior Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 90
Registered: December 2006
Location: Germany | |
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Just sent this to the Shadows and the Martians:
btw., Martians sent an in-game message that they never received any shadow tech, har har... 
<Gaim Translatronic 1.57>
Dear Ptolemy, Emperor of a Thousand Suns,
allow us to include the Martians in this conversation, in the hope that they receive it as we never got a reply to previous communications through this channel, even though we explicitly asked for confirmation of receipt.
12 years ago you told us that at some point you will ask "What do you want?". At that time, we were not sure of ourselves and of the destiny that we were aiming for. Time has passed, and we have come up with an answer: To be left alone.
The recent unfortunate skirmishes with the Martians showed us the senselessness of fighting it out in the North. We still maintain that the Martians were waiting only for an excuse to start shooting, but as we said publically and in messages to them (to which we never got an answer...) we are interested in talking and having a peaceful, if probably never really comfortable border. If only they had answered to our enquiries about arrangements for settlements more than a decade ago... but we digress:
It is of course no secret that we will remain independent, masters of our own destinies. Our Queen of Swords together with our Queen of Secrets have made a strategic assessment of the situation, and we have concluded that the Vorlon alliance with their so-called lightbringers are a much greater threat than you are at the moment. They have gathered very strong allies to their cause, not only the infamous claim adjuster but also others of skill and strong economy.
So we think it would be beneficial to all of us if we could come to some arrangement with regards to borders and non-aggression in the north, so that you can concentrate on your real enemy while we gather some strength to maybe fight against them as well before the day is out. Needless to say, the arrogant do-goody-two-shoe Vorlons have not made any friends with our people in recent years. We will not repeat their words, but let´s just say that we did not part on good terms...
What do you say? What do YOU want? Can we come to some arrangement? Can the LGM let bygones be bygones?
Gaim Council of Hive Queens
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| Re: 2457 from Centauri to SPOOmun Complat |
Tue, 27 March 2007 16:03 |
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| Skaffen wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 21:14 |
Can the LGM let bygones be bygones?
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What's LGM?
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| Re: 2457 from Centauri to SPOOmun Complat |
Tue, 27 March 2007 16:08 |
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As I said in my email: the Shadows will provide tech to a limited number of the alliance with minimal cost (just the maintaining of "reasonable relationships"). They also talk about limiting or banning their allies re. attacks against
us. I intend to ask for weapons for Gaim & Llort - any objections?
This is the Shadow message: | Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 12:19 AM |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 - game balance
Greetings Llort Mi-Ma-Ti,
The Shadows do understand that there is every likelihood some of races are weaker species than others. 15k resources over 3 decades is a standard benchmark of the potential of a species.
Shadows do indeed recognize the benefits of intervention assistance to the Interstellar Alliance – especially in its early, formative stages. Additionally, the Shadows alliance has no desire to destroy the Interstellar Alliance – it would be better to enlist their help in removing the Vorlons. Therefore, given the situation in this galaxy, Shadows do understand the benefits limiting or prohibiting potential damage done by Shadow alliance species to those of the Interstellar Alliance and vice versa. The human Morden may be useful with these negotiations if we can locate him again.
Shadows can indeed provide technology to some species – though not to all – the cost would simply be too high. Species receiving assistance would have to be relied on to pass the technological advancements along.
The Shadows only ask in return is the commitment to have reasonable relations with the friends of the Shadows. Non-agression treaties between various species would be a useful median for this.
Which technologies are most needed and by whom?
Shadows
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I will write a response shortly.
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| Re: 2457 from Shadows to Llort |
Tue, 27 March 2007 16:47 |
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| AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 22:08 |
I intend to ask for weapons for Gaim & Llort - any objections?
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| Micha wrote on Tue, 27 March 2007 22:14 |
No objections, I actually prefer it like this.
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Same here.
And I doubt that mentioning the mere name SPOOmun Complat would really favour our cause here.
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| Re: 2457 Reply from Llort to Shadows |
Tue, 27 March 2007 17:25 |
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This is my intended reply to the Shadows. I think the Shadows are refering, in part, to the Centauri/SPOO dispute & we would have to stop killing Shadow scouts but I think he would accept an offer to do that.
I'd like to get this in place asap so opinions soon please.| Re: Babylon5 - game balance |
Hail to the Wise Shadows,
I welcome your offer of tech exchange and I am confident you will be repaid many times over. Now that you have made this offer I will reject the weap12 offer we received elsewhere As I said, we in the IA recognise the strength of the Vorlon alliance - we welcome the opportunity to escape their yolks.
Weapons is our priority. The Vorlons have recently completed weap12 transfer to their allies & we feel rather naked. The Llort & Gaim are the most needy. What method will be used? W-L?
I know for a fact that the Gaim would welcome peace with the Free Martians & I'm confident that the SPOO would welcome peace with the Centauris. Can I suggest a short NAP to start with just to get the agreements in principal in place (we haven't yet conferred &, fortunately or unfortunately depending in your view, we are a democracy). Let's say 10 years - the Martians/Gaim & Centauris/SPOO can then negotiate under your supervision.
We will certainly maintain reasonable relationships with your friends at a minimum & I expect our relationships to strengthen further as the Vorlon threat grows.
Regards,
Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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| Re: 2457 Reply from Llort to Shadows |
Tue, 27 March 2007 17:45 |
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I would leave out everything refering to Pak'ma'ra and SPOOmun Complat. So far I've worked hard for a trigger-happy-mad single player reputation. And I do need at least a chance to go for Foch and Franklin, otherwise my flank will be wide open to the Centauri mineral packets. Additionally... look what course the MT has changed to.
In general it seems wise to split up relations with the Elders:
Pak'ma'ra/SPOO: Vorlons
Gaim/Llort: Shadows
And it's only good if we look like a confused, split apart and not well cooperating group.
Thus my suggestion of a slightly changed message would be:
| Re: Babylon5 - game balance |
Hail to the Wise Shadows,
I welcome your offer of tech exchange and I am confident you will be repaid many times over. Now that you have made this offer I will reject the weap12 offer we received elsewhere As I said, we in the IA recognise the strength of the Vorlon alliance - we welcome the opportunity to escape their yolks.
Weapons is our priority. The Vorlons have recently completed weap12 transfer to their allies & we feel rather naked. What method will be used? W-L?
I know for a fact that the Gaim would welcome peace with the Free Martians. Can I suggest a short NAP to start with just to get the agreements in principal in place (we haven't yet conferred &, fortunately or unfortunately depending in your view, we are a democracy). Let's say 10 years - the Martians/Gaim can then negotiate under your supervision.
We will certainly maintain reasonable relationships with your friends at a minimum & I expect our relationships to strengthen further as the Vorlon threat grows.
Regards,
Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2007 17:47] Report message to a moderator
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| 2458: from Shadows to SPOOmun Complat |
Wed, 28 March 2007 18:35 |
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Shadows response to 2456: from SPOOmun Complat to Shadows (see above):
| 2458: from Shadows to SPOOmun Complat |
Shadows find SPOO explanations superfluous due to the intentional, repeated destruction of Shadow unarmed vessels. Shadows standing directive is that SPOO scoutships be treated as SPOO treats Shadows vessels.
Shadows ability to send tecnology to SPOO is limited due to distance. The Shadow home planet is off limits - No-one returns from ZhahaDum.
In the course of time as more stargates become available in the Galaxy, Shadows are willing to send assistance - however, we note that by then, our assistance may be of little value. Recommend SPOOmun Complat initiates discussions with the Llort.
Shadows.
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[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2007 18:43] Report message to a moderator
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| 2460: Ptolemy's response to Steve (host) |
Fri, 30 March 2007 18:18 |
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Steve got in contact with Ptolemy about shooting down Spoo vessels:
| Ptolemy: |
Tell Alturist that his ships simply 'happened' to end up in the same space as mine - battle is permitted under that circumstance. Two of the battles happened at 'Shadow' gates - ALL non Shadow alliance ships are automatically destroyed on arrival. The scout that was destroyed in space was very close to a Shadow colony near the HW. IF he doesn't like it, tough #### - and you can forward this message to him. IF he didn't want a war, he shouldn't have started one.
Kind Regards,
Ptolemy
Emperor of a Thousand Suns
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| Spoo answere to Steve (host) |
Hi Steve.
And this year another ship had the "bad luck" to be in the same space like a ship of his... in orbit of Centauri planet Franklin. The Spoo vessel was unarmed, no armed Centauri ships were there, so we can rule out the help-ally-Stars-feature.
He is quite an annoying stubborn bastard, isn't he? Especially if he is loosing.
So he is basically turning the rules around to:
for whoever dares to shoot down one of his scouts, the rules of the games are void and he can hunt those player's ships as he likes to.
> He also complained that the rules are unfair because he can't retaliate against your attack on him or an ally.
Poor guy. He thinks having 30 years development ahead, time to scan the whole galaxy and free level-10-tech is... unfair as soon as one of his scouts gets shot down? Calling it even a war as soon as he looses a 2nd scout?
I thought it was part of the scenario
* that the Elders have to move cautiously in phase II
* carefully expanding while being VULNERABLE
Only relatively vulnerable, of course, since their superiour tech easily enables them to protect their expansion. Thus it was obvious that they SHOULD have used the settings:
# everybody on neutral
# allies however they like to
# other elder on enemy
And battleorders targetting only enemies.
With the exception when being in orbit of their own planets where they can shoot at whomever they want to. And when getting attacked, Stars overrules every setting anyway.
Perhaps I should had suggested the above right from the beginning instead of asking pointed questions to clarify the rules of engagement but I didn't want to interfere in your scenario-setting.
> The game is close to phase 3 and the lose of a scout or 2 should not have a huge impact on the game.
True.
Giving high-stealth LFs and sfx to the Centauri was worse... and enabled them to set up huge colonies without anybody having the chance to notice other than by chance. Quite a handy thing in a large universe with galaxy clumping.
I am just angry how he bends the rules and the scenario. If he don't like it and deems it unfair, he shouldn't be playing this game and especially not as one of the Elders.
So, what have I got to expect for the last years of phase II? Whereever the Shadows see Spoo-ships, Shadow ships happen to occupy the same space?
I've ceased my attacks on the Centauri anyway and there are only 2 more years of phase II left. From Ptolemy's response it's obvious that it is in vain trying to talk to him.
So, just forget about it. And if Ptolemy hopefully keeps targetting ONLY scouts, I'll keep quite from now on, I don't want to spoil the game and the athmospere. If the Vorlons won't make a big mistake, they'll win anyway. At least if the Shadows don't manage to win against the odds by surprising the Vorlons with a high-stealth-fleet at their HW.
2 suggestions for bab5v3 (if there ever will be a v3):
1) Obviously it is of advantage to clearly define the rules of engagement.
2) Elders may pass tech only after the 15th year of phase II (2445). Balancing things a bit out to make it look not as worse for the Interstellar Alliance. Getting tech right from the beginning like eg the Vorlon allies, those become nearly untouchable. As an interesting side effect, alliance alignment becomes less obvious and raises the paranoia level *grin
Regards,
Patrick (SPOOmun Complat)
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| Re: Shadow alliance: communication |
Fri, 30 March 2007 18:25 |
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| Quote: |
IF he doesn't like it, tough ####
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I don't believe it!
There is a filter in this forum to prevent people from writing s h i t???
The morale standards of the USA... unbelievable.
Kill, blood, rape, murder, genocide, nuke them, nigger... just a test what's approbate for kids and what's not.
Yeah, I thought so.
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| Re: Shadow alliance: communication |
Sat, 31 March 2007 03:40 |
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I understand your frustration Patrick. You're perfectly right. He does seem to be doing almost as he likes.
Having said that, weapons tech is about to start flowing. See this exchange between Llort & Shadows:| Llort wrote on Fri, Mar 30, 2007 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 - game balance
Greetings to the Shadows,
I assume that you are aware of the Vorlon fleet headed for Smorgasbord (Drakh HW). It is comprised of beam & missile BBs, B-17 bombers, beam CCs, chaff, colonisers, LFs, SFXs & chaff. I'm sure that the Drakh do not have the capability to repulse it.
My HW is only 220ly from Smorgasbord & I too would have great trouble in defeating that fleet. If I don't get weapons soon I will be unable to help you or myself in any great way.
Will I get weapons asap or will my Yak/Beta frigates/cruisers be facing battleships?
Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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| Shadows wrote on Sat, Mar 31, 2007 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 - game balance
Even Shadows would not currently be able to defeat such a fleet. The Vorlon edge is way too great.
Shadows will transfer 6 destroyers at planets in the Shadow sector next cycle and begin supplying weapons technology. We shall encourage Free Mars to accept the NAP with the planet offer.
Kind Regards,
Shadows…
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| 2461: Shadows to SPOOmun Complat |
Mon, 02 April 2007 20:34 |
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| 2461: Shadows to Spoo via ingame message |
SPOO attacks Shadow ships, Shadow ships defend, ALL SOO ships are attacking. ALL Shadow ships are defending. SPOO scouts are simply stupid. SPOO is simply stupid for attacking an Elder. Elders defend - it is their right. SPOO scouts attack as spies in space or in orbit. ALL SPOO ships attack - it seems to be SPOO nature. ALL Shadows defend and kill attackers. Why is SPOO so stupid?
Shadows...
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Unarmed scouts attacking the Shadows who need to shoot them down in self-defence... sigh, I won't bother to communicate with the Shadows anylonger.
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| Re: 2461/2: Shadows/Llort |
Wed, 04 April 2007 21:42 |
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I think I might have missed passing this on yet - too much email, not enough time. Note particularly the 2nd message - looks like I will have to pass weapons on even for Gaim.
I thought I saw a reference to the Shadows coming to Smorgasbord must must have misread it - it was actually about taking down the Pisces gate.| Llort wrote on Tue, 03 April 2007 16:00 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 - game balance
As you saw I tried to take down the gate at Pisces (which I commissioned) because I see more danger than help in it. You inadvertantly killed my scout before it could finish the job - unless you would find it useful could you take the gate down for me? As you know my planet of Silver is adjacent as is the Drakh planet Cassiopeia + a fair bit of my empire is within easy reach.
John/Llort
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| Shadows wrote on Wed, 04 April 2007 05:26 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 2461
The Shadows will supply weapons tech as agreed. The gift is to the Llort since the status of Gaim is in flux. It has taken some time to assemble the ships at locations that are suitable for transfer but, this is now a possible situation. The first location ships shall transfer next cycle (year we believe in your scale). The condition on this transfer is that the ships MUST remain in the orbits they are placed unless specific instructions are received for them to be moved. Initially, 2 administrative locations must be used for Wolves – one will then be replaced.
Shadows...
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| Shadows wrote on Wed, 04 April 2007 05:32 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 - game balance
Hmm – the Shadow scout has orders not to attack anyone. The Llort must have fired on it and it’s automated defense mechanism activated.. Shadows will send something to take the gate for the Llort. This will probably require 2 space jumps.
Regards,
Shadows
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| Llort wrote on Wed, 04 April 2007 08:30 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 - game balance
Sure, the Llort attacked the gate. Since we are friends with the gate you protected the gate - np.
Can't you use the ship you killed my ship with to take the gate down? The fort is unarmed with only 38dp armour left so any armed ship would do.
Cheers,
Llort
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]| Shadows wrote on Thu, 05 April 2007 03:10 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 - game balance
OK – I’ll have the scout go after it.
Regards,
Ptolemy
Emperor of a Thousand Suns
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