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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Sun, 18 March 2007 17:26   |
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I think it's already been broken by a number of people, but so far all have decided to keep the technical details under wraps. Which incidentally was my vote, although I don't know quite how much scope for abuse the knowledge makes available. I do hear that there is information in the m files that players aren't supposed to know, so making the encryption public might grant the ability to extract that information to more people (not sure if that is a better or worse situation.)
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Mon, 19 March 2007 13:29 |
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I'm against publishing it widely but it might possibly help the FreeStars/Nova project if only the people involved are informed and you can believe them to keep it sub rosa.
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Mon, 19 March 2007 14:04 |
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 m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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I believe I'm not saying anything new, but:
 We aren't dealing here with some mission-critical piece of state-of-the-art, but with a very bug-ridden and cheat-prone ancient code. 
at the moment, dozens of cheats, bugs, possible abuses, mods, and crashes are known, and you can bet a fair number of "hidden" flaws and exploits exist too. 
the Stars! experience/replayability would vastly improve if scenarios were easier to set up and "special" policies/rules to apply. The list of games for the past couple years shows it, as well as the near-imperative of a "non-playing host" or a "third-party umpire" 
the existence of even a single turn-checker/validator/enforcer tool, however limited, would significantly change the balance. And it's not like the encryption/password system is that hard to hack anyway. 
add-ons (battlesimming, empirewide order checking, mineral balancing, threat assessment, AI) would become suddenly possible and suspicion-free. I've seen more games killed by boredom/MM than by cheats or bugs. 
I therefore vote to spread the base of possible coders of such sorely needed marvels before the issue becomes largely academic, iow, our beloved Stars DIES. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Wed, 21 March 2007 15:04 |
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| crr65536 |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 3 |
Messages: 180
Registered: June 2005 | |
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| Kotk wrote on Wed, 21 March 2007 00:38 |
If cheating is already easy then it must be made easier why? What i anyway care about cheaters?
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The point I'm making is that if the file format details were released, there would not be more cheaters as everyone who wants to cheat already has the means to do so. Basically, keeping this secret doesn't help cheaters, it just hurts people who want to do complex game setups, etc. 
| Kotk wrote on Wed, 21 March 2007 00:38 |
Not publishing something is not equal with keeping it secret.
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This doesn't make sense to me. How is not telling different from keeping a secret? 
| Kotk wrote on Wed, 21 March 2007 00:38 |
The vote seemingly displays nothing like consensus and so it quite likely will stay unpublished. 
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Maybe so, but I can still argue for why I voted the way I did.
| Kotk wrote on Wed, 21 March 2007 00:38 |
I provided source forge link for a open source Stars! tools project, i gave the list of the persons most of whom (unless all) have the information. My poor English skill fails, or just misses the mark, or what other clues intelligent person who can do "more useful things" needs? 
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The stars tools project is a great thing - I just wonder why people don't want file format info to be available when it makes setting up scenarios easier with no downsides.
The point I've been trying to make is that giving out file format info will not mean everyone mods everything and breaks all their games. If someone has no ethical problems with cheating, why would they not cheat now? Why would they wait to have the file format information?
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Thu, 22 March 2007 04:38 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| Kotk wrote on Wed, 21 March 2007 21:32 |
On one hand known information is limited and insufficent.
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As well it should, since such is the sad fate of "security thru obscurity" always.
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More difficult things than just hacking the encryption are there.
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But we may never know, since not everyone who is good at breaking encryptions is equally good at decyphering other things, whereas others who perhaps could might not have the time, the patience, the tools or the talent needed to pass the first encryption hurdle.
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what good people they are if they cant step forward, introduce themself and to ask the information they need in person?
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Me, for starters, and I'm still waiting for Wumpus or Pricklypea to come forth with answers or code or tools for several years now.
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Encryptionless Stars! mod that Pricklypea did make is probably still available at his site for download. He also called people to work and discover the meaning of the unencrypted data with it.
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While at the same time withholding the info he already has. I won't waste my time rediscovering the tidbits others knew years ago.
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so what was the point to publish it ... again?
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Obviously, since we're talking about main HST file info, the point would be to allow easier/more evolved scenario setups, something you would already know if you had bothered to read this thread form the start. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Tue, 03 April 2007 07:35 |
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| PaulCr |
| Chief Warrant Officer 3
Stars! V.I.P
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Messages: 187
Registered: February 2007
Location: An Island that kinda look... | |
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Given I started this thread I have neglected it a bit, while responding to a post in another thread I was going to add the following to the end of it but it makes more sense to include it here rather then in the other thread.
I have been looking at the encryption but I don't have the 32 bit x86 background to go into something as complicated as a windows application so I've had too regenerate identical files for each encryption key which so far appears to use 11 bits I've already seen documented plus the bottom 2 from GameID and TurnNo giving me 32768 .hst files. Finding time to go further after the encryption though is difficult although I know I can use the files I've produced to decrypt Player 1's race section, or at least the areas I aleady know the function of. I've not had time yet though to even check if the following sections restart at the same point in the sequence or continue where the last section left off or to even check if the fragments I have can stitch together into a single full sequence, hopefully (32 or 64k long), if each sections starts at the same point in the sequence then I'd be able to decrypt for all players, if the fragments stitch together it should be simple to use my existing info to figure out the position in the sequence to start from and decrypt the entire file.
I consider the above information safe to post, without knowledge of the sequence needed to decrypt it is only of limited use. I am interested in getting together with some of the other programmers who have already written existing utilities who may be interested in pooling the information that each other has. I can make the files I've generated available to anybody who thinks they may be useful but the are in 4 zip files of 40+ MB, I can make the script used to create them available instead but on my machine it takes around 1-1.5 hours to generate 2048 distinct files which need doing 16 times (4 turns x 4 different GameIDs). It alo hits the hard disk pretty badly since to get 2048 unique files takes an aweful lot more generations.
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| Re: Stars Encryption |
Fri, 13 April 2007 15:07 |
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| Dolphin |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 21
Registered: February 2005
Location: Germany | |
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Being in my first game of Stars!, I was reluctant to comment on this threat, especially as my experience with other strategy games like VGA Planets is shaping my view of Stars! After reading this discussion, I have to give my  nonetheless:
1. Cheaters:
Stars! does not adequately check for cheating. It would seem natural to me that someone with the programming skill for such a task would be willing and able to develop a host side cheat checking program. Keeping information confidential is unlikely to stop cheaters (they tend to have a lot of criminal energy). Keeping the relevant information secret, will just make their detection harder. 
2. Micromanagement:
The game's own routines for reducing micromanagement are helping a little but I am shocked by the amount of MM still needed for playing Stars! on a decent level. I assume that few players appreciate repetitive tasks, yet, there seems no external tool available relieving players of these tasks. Workarounds like setting scouts to "colonize" to optimize their flight patterns clearly show that Stars! misses out on something here.
I am certain that programming MM tools would be easy for skilled and interested players. Yet, if they had to first decipher the data format all by themselves, few potential programmers would have the time and dedication left thereafter to provide the Stars! community with tools for reducing micromanagement.
3. Information:
The sheer number of Excel sheets, databases and third party programs shows that the display of information in Stars! is utterly inadequate.
The fact that practically all of them are in some kind of early beta despite being years old shows that the task of writing such a program is currently not esasy enough. Having all the file formats/decryption routines available would make it much easier to write a program that distills information from the load of game data available. 
Good players read an opponents PRT/LRTs/hab range/settings/ship designs based on the information provided. Yet, for now this seems a time-consuming manual process. Experience might help but this game needs to attract fresh blood so anything giving a huge benefit to the old hands ensures that Stars! remains a dying game. 
There is an urgent need for improving information management. I understand from this forum that many of the better players have a background in informatics and several seem to have programmed their own private tools. If Stars! is to remain attractive, this community should strive to level the battle field by making it a battle of wits, not computer skills. 
If we want Stars! to survive, the community should work on ways to put all the knowledge and hidden tricks into a program that allows players to focus on economic and military strategy instead of being forced to spend hours moving pop and guessing at freighter weights and directions. 
Best regards,
Dolphin
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Publishing is telling to people who did not ask it. 
