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Jammer 10's Thu, 01 May 2003 20:55 Go to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Jammer 10's? Any use for them? Are they a godsend, worthless, or neither?

Myself, I've never seen a use for them due to the limited slots for such items on early hulls, but I don't have much experience outside of the HE prt.



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: Jammer 10's Thu, 01 May 2003 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LEit is currently offline LEit

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 879
Registered: April 2003
Location: CT
Jammer 10s are worthless in combat, might have a limited lifespan for trading tech.

Perhaps if you had Nubians and still only had J10s they might be slightly useful, and even then I'd probably skip em and use something else in that slot. On anything smaller you'd rather increase your own firepower/init rather then adding a slight amount of jamming.



- LEit

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Re: Jammer 10's Fri, 02 May 2003 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

I've never found a use for the jammer 10 either.

In all cases I only really use the jammer 30... unless I'm IS and have access to the jammer 50 (yay) or if I don't have tech yet for the jammer 30 and I REALLY NEED to put out some jammed ships.

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icon2.gif  Re: Jammer 10's Fri, 02 May 2003 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paladin is currently offline Paladin

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2003
Location: Kentucky

Sometimes you just need jammers to prevent your beamer BBs from becoming more attractive than your chaff. It 's not so much they they will cause the missiles to miss cause obviously jammer 30s or jammers 50s will do a better job of this, but instead theses low level jammers cause the missiles to hit the chaff. Without the any jammers on your ships, once your shields are gone, your BBs become atractive. I have even used jammer 10, but usually it's jammer 20's but it's rarely bteer jammers since I don't get to electric 16 very early). So in the Doom or Jug era, if you are protecting your BBs from missiles with chaff, jammers just keep your chaff working.

I've played games with enemies that were very heavy missile BBs adding some sapper BBs to knock down the shields. Without jammers on my BBs, my chaff would have been ignored.


[Updated on: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:36]




"There is no substitute for Integrity"

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Re: Jammer 10's Fri, 02 May 2003 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Thanks for the input, guys.

Paladin wrote on Fri, 02 May 2003 11:33

Sometimes you just need jammers to prevent your beamer BBs from becoming more attractive than your chaff. It 's not so much they they will cause the missiles to miss cause obviously jammer 30s or jammers 50s will do a better job of this, but instead theses low level jammers cause the missiles to hit the chaff. Without the any jammers on your ships, once your shields are gone, your BBs become atractive. I have even used jammer 10, but usually it's jammer 20's but it's rarely bteer jammers since I don't get to electric 16 very early). So in the Doom or Jug era, if you are protecting your BBs from missiles with chaff, jammers just keep your chaff working.

I've played games with enemies that were very heavy missile BBs adding some sapper BBs to knock down the shields. Without jammers on my BBs, my chaff would have been ignored.



That's just the kind of answer I was looking for, Paladin. I thought there might be something I was overlooking by discounting the Jammer 10's worth due to low efficiency and limited component slots alone. Using it simply to make another ship more attractive to missiles without real regard for jamming effectiveness is something I hadn't thought of. I can see that as a possibly valid use for Jammer 10's, now that you mention it.



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: Jammer 10's Sun, 04 May 2003 05:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Ensign

Messages: 361
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
and in a duell, where you cant research everything, the jammer10
works nice on stations in the early game... (and there is nobody to trade)

if you got el expensive, then you are happy with el6 to have
jammes on your docks, while the other one doesnt...

anyway... good point paladin

robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: Jammer 10's Mon, 05 May 2003 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2340
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Paladin wrote on Fri, 02 May 2003 20:33

Sometimes you just need jammers to prevent your beamer BBs from becoming more attractive than your chaff. It 's not so much they they will cause the missiles to miss cause obviously jammer 30s or jammers 50s will do a better job of this, but instead theses low level jammers cause the missiles to hit the chaff. Without the any jammers on your ships, once your shields are gone, your BBs become atractive. I have even used jammer 10, but usually it's jammer 20's but it's rarely bteer jammers since I don't get to electric 16 very early). So in the Doom or Jug era, if you are protecting your BBs from missiles with chaff, jammers just keep your chaff working.

I've played games with enemies that were very heavy missile BBs adding some sapper BBs to knock down the shields. Without jammers on my BBs, my chaff would have been ignored.



I don't know but by the time I have BBs and building them in large numbers I usually have at least elec10 ...

Just a side note: please don't use that colour, I find it hard to read, maybe because I'm not using the Stars! look of the forum, but that hurts my eyes (sorry Ron), luckily I can select the text which gives it a dark blue and readable colour.
Hm, and why use a larger font for normal text? God complex? Wink You must have created too much universes lately Wink

regards,
mch

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Re: Jammer 10's Mon, 05 May 2003 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paladin is currently offline Paladin

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2003
Location: Kentucky

O.K. I'll stick to normal colors (I just like being different, conforming is not one of my core competencies) Smug I reserve the right to use a different size however Wink

I did say in my post that usually I will use jammer 20's but on occasion, if it's a slow tech game, I have been in the early BB era while still at Electric 6. Using jammer 10's is not pleasant since I hate using a slot for such mediocre equipment but it's better than no jammer at all.

Paladin
my 2 cents




"There is no substitute for Integrity"

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Re: Jammer 10's Mon, 05 May 2003 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BlueTurbit

 
Lt. Commander

RIP
BlueTurbit died Oct. 20, 2011

Messages: 835
Registered: October 2002
Location: Heart of Texas
Paladin wrote on Mon, 05 May 2003 08:01

O.K. I'll stick to normal colors (I just like being different, conforming is not one of my core competencies) Smug I reserve the right to use a different size however Wink

You just keep using your favorite colors and big letters. Myself I like colors and big letters. Variety is the spice of life.
Except please please please don't use light grey letters. I use grey background, the default screen before Ron added the Stars! background. Yey But if my girlfriend ever talk to me like dat I gonna kick her out, right now. Very Happy Now maybe I gonna find out if Ron really read all de posts. Or if he just rank them by size. Very Happy



BlueTurbit Country/Rock

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Re: Jammer 10's Tue, 06 May 2003 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
Commander
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BlueTurbit wrote on Mon, 05 May 2003 14:15

I use grey background, the default screen before Ron added the Stars! background. Yey But if my girlfriend ever talk to me like dat I gonna kick her out, right now. Very Happy Now maybe I gonna find out if Ron really read all de posts. Or if he just rank them by size. Very Happy


Yes, I usually read all the posts. Cool



Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHost

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Re: Jammer 10's Thu, 12 June 2003 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
boneandrew is currently offline boneandrew

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 35
Registered: June 2003
Location: Detroit
They'd be a better deal if they were Jammer 15's.

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Re: Jammer 10's Sun, 20 August 2006 20:37 Go to previous message
JasonC is currently offline JasonC

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class
Stars! V.I.P

Messages: 58
Registered: July 2006
Location: Arlington, MA

A single one isn't effective, so they don't really work on cruisers. IS races prefer FFs to CAs anyway.

But I do find them useful with a specific race design option I think for other reasons. Con cheap races push for BBs rapidly, leaving other techs well behind. IS races can get a lot out of this idea.

Instead of most expensive and shooting for CAs with tech 16 weapons and getting round out tech to 10 in all the expensive fields, a con cheap race pushes for construction 13 as his critical warfighting tech. Weapons may be left at 10 or 12 while getting there. After you have BB hulls the weapons are pushed back up. Round out techs stay low for considerably longer than other races.

IS races can leave energy at 7, using RS crobies in place of bears. They can leave elec at 6 rather than 10-11. If they have rams they push prop to 9 once they need battlespeed.

What use are the dinky jammers in this case? Well, your early BBs can handle jihad CAs much more readily with one slot of them instead of both elec slots filled with capacitors. This cuts the fp of a typical jihad CA from around 240 shielded and 460 unshielded, to 180 and 310 respectively. Since the early BBs tend to be short on battle speed that is a useful design point.

Naturally by the time you have W16-20 and good engines and the rest, you also want elec for better jammers, your own SBCs, LBUs, tachyons etc.

What other reasons do IS races have for the con cheap approach? You move at con 4 rather than the starting expensive 3, which means you have docks and fuel transports and high fuel privateers right away. You have FFs when others have DDs. It means early large freighers to hold flying pop - since IS races get only 1/2 to 2/3rd the "pop lift" per hull that is very useful. Early BBs fight better than CAs with higher weapons, and don't get hit as hard by the +25% weapon cost thing IS races suffer from. You get 300/500s sooner which can overgate the armor-less RS BBs. And you get superfreighters sooner.

The J1
...

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