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Re: New Game for Beginners Sat, 14 January 2017 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
theene is currently offline theene

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 27
Registered: January 2014
Location: UK
Oh boy.

I'd like to play in a true beginner's game...

I played in ATSR2 a while back, but that's my only real PvP game. Defeat was swift and painful. Laughing

Edit: played dd6 too.

Edit 2: I've got to say that the main appeal to me of the beginners game is playing against real beginners without the strain of tutelage, or the pressure of playing an expert like ccmaster. I understand it can be useful, but it might be more entertaining with just newbs. There's frequently other games where beginners can play with a more mixed crowd. Also I think ccmaster wanted to play but not teach, which doesn't make sense to me since he is very good. Just my 2 cents.


[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2017 17:32]

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Re: New Game for Beginners Mon, 16 January 2017 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 62
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

Quote:
Oh boy.

I'd like to play in a true beginner's game...


I'd say that would make for:
Entropicurity
talkingbologna
theen

And I agree, having a "true!" beginners game would be great. Get our feet wet and what not. Furthermore CCMaster I believe was mostly joking to some degree, though the GM mentioned "with handicap" being an option as well. I feel that is understandable, this is a game and I'd be more inclined to have more than less.

I'll keep looking around and see if I can get one of my local group to hop into a game. I'll toss a message on the mailing list to see if anybody else still frequents there. May need to branch out. The Stars! folk that remain tend to be fairly a fairly few yet committed bunch!



--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

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Re: New Game for Beginners Mon, 16 January 2017 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
talkingbologna is currently offline talkingbologna

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 86
Registered: November 2016
Location: 1947
I wish I knew people. Here in US heartland, if it's not regular ole human only war or sports, people usually aren't interested. I would love to play a two or three person hot seat game. Did it with MOO2 once, it was fun, but rather one dimensional with just the two humans.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Tue, 17 January 2017 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
Hi!
Do you still have a place on board?

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Re: New Game for Beginners Tue, 17 January 2017 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
theene is currently offline theene

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 27
Registered: January 2014
Location: UK
I think we do!

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Re: New Game for Beginners Tue, 17 January 2017 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 62
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

mijgo wrote on Tue, 17 January 2017 06:57
Hi!
Do you still have a place on board?


Greetings mijgo!

If you happen to be interested, you'd make for the 4th "beginner" for a basic starting game which was the minimum we needed to get started. We had a couple of veterans who were interested in filling in the gaps with various (albeit extreme) handicaps.

If you interested in joining your more than welcome in my mind! Just need to see if the Host is still open to run the game! Yey



--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

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Re: New Game for Beginners Wed, 18 January 2017 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
Great! Maybe I'd prefer to wait for another couple of players though. I'm interested in larger universe Smile

Sorry, if my questions are stupid, I'm a stranger on this forum.

First of all, could you please clarify what do the abbreviations MTWTF and MWF mean? I beleive they describe a time interval between turn generations. It is important, as it is hard for me to access the PC with the game on weekend.

Second, what should I do to enter the game? I have 2.7j version (AFAIU it is compartible) and an AutoHost Client installed.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Wed, 18 January 2017 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
mijgo wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 13:30

First of all, could you please clarify what do the abbreviations MTWTF and MWF mean?


Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday-Friday

Quote:
Second, what should I do to enter the game? I have 2.7j version (AFAIU it is compartible) and an AutoHost Client installed.


The stars-version we are all playing with:
* STARS26JRC4.ZIP
The not included help file is here:
* e27ihelp.zip

ManicLurch will host the game, I guess. Usually it takes some days to weeks until enough players enlisted for the game and have agreed on the parameters. Then the host will create the game, put it on autohost, then the game starts and usually lasts for several month.

At the moment this game is in the phase: players enlist.

theene wrote on Sun, 15 January 2017 01:45
I've got to say that the main appeal to me of the beginners game is playing against real beginners without the strain of tutelage, or the pressure of playing an expert like ccmaster. I understand it can be useful, but it might be more entertaining with just newbs. There's frequently other games where beginners can play with a more mixed crowd. Also I think ccmaster wanted to play but not teach, which doesn't make sense to me since he is very good. Just my 2 cents.


Absolutely understandable.




[Updated on: Wed, 18 January 2017 08:42]

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Re: New Game for Beginners Wed, 18 January 2017 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
Quote:
Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday-Friday

Alright, that works for me. Thank you.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Thu, 19 January 2017 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Quote:

Well, from my hosting experience with the Fledgling Admirals series I'd say it is nay impossible to put restrictions on vmanuel and ccmaster vs beginners. Either the beginners have no chance or the restrictions would be so harsh that it doesn't allow for a somehow normal stars game but the experienced are forced to a very strange approach which leads to a "wrong" example how to play stars.


I agree that is is less than ideal to mix experienced players with new players. But I wasn't sure we would get enough new players for a game. I figured it is better to get some games going then for the new players to wait and possibly lose interest.


Updated Player lists:


Players - beginners, rusty old timers:
Entropicurity
talkingbologna
theene
Mijgo

Players - experienced:
vmanuel
ccmaster
Altruist

Did I miss anyone?

Maybe we can get one more and start the game.

We have to decide on final rules. Altruist made a lot of suggestions. How do we feel about those?


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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 02:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
Altruist's suggestions mostly sound quite reasonable for me.
Except for the prohibition of AR for beginners. What is the reasoning? I realize it is quite complex, but for me it would be even more suicidal to play any other one as my last non-AR game was like... maybe 10 years ago. I just won't remember what to do:) I'm pretty sure I won't survive with any option.

And if we apply those suggestions, will the other rules remmain (BBS, random events, cheats, etc.)?

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
Beginner and AR aren't normally a happy marriage.
AR is 'difficult' to play well, with long periods of serious vulnerability to anyone with much more than an armed scout...

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 06:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
I fully realize that. Just wanted to give it a try to see what should be improved.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 62
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

mijgo wrote on Fri, 20 January 2017 06:09
I fully realize that. Just wanted to give it a try to see what should be improved.


Well I imagine the players are simply expressing concern, if you are comfortable with AR go with it! Also if you haven't already, check out the AR forums here as well as the Wiki Page that details the different "styles" that seem to have worked/are popular in Stars! which can be found here.

I've been fidgeting with them a lot myself, and the Iron Crunch early on is really brutal and something I'm still trying to pan out or deal with. If you are for it by all means give it a try! For all we know you'll be absolutely epic/an expert in the making and we won't know it!

As for what Altruist mentioned I would be alright with keeping with the "No allies, leftover points, and Limited PRT choices"



--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Many experts have played AR in games and been blown away early in those games. AR is fun to play, but hard. You really need the right game setup for it.

For a beginner game, I think the idea is the beginners really should get good at "normal" races first. So the rule was really for your own good Mad

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
I'm interested...

I would consider myself rusty, haven't touched the game in 10 years. However I had attained a fairly high skill level when I was a player.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
to ManicLurch:
Ok. You don't get my point. Isn't it true that AR strategy is in many aspects completely different from the one for other races (yes, other races do differ from each other too, but still they have same base stuff like factories etc. that are missing in AR world)? How could playing "normal" race help to develop specific AR skills?


[Updated on: Fri, 20 January 2017 16:44]

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 62
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

I think someone from the rec.games community is also interested and pending an account approval. So we may have another one to join the roster?


--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

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Re: New Game for Beginners Fri, 20 January 2017 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ManicLurch is currently offline ManicLurch

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009
Quote:
Ok. You don't get my point. Isn't it true that AR strategy is in many aspects completely different from the one for other races (yes, other races do differ from each other too, but still they have same base stuff like factories etc. that are missing in AR world)? How could playing "normal" race help to develop specific AR skills?


Yes, AR strategy is very different. Playing normal races won't help your AR skills.

The point was playing a "normal" race is typically much more forgiving. An AR race has to be designed and played almost flawlessly. Even then, they can suffer early defeats.

I think the reason for the no AR rule for beginners that Altruist suggested was so that a player could get more experience before they tried playing an AR in a game.

If you insist, I won't stop you from playing AR.

Quote:
I would consider myself rusty, haven't touched the game in 10 years. However I had attained a fairly high skill level when I was a player


Welcome aboard.

Quote:
I think someone from the rec.games community is also interested and pending an account approval. So we may have another one to join the roster?


Sure, just have them email me (david at salempfg.com), but there is no reason they can't get an autohost account.

We have enough players it would seem, so lets set a deadline of Wednesday next week for final players. Then when we have a final player count, we can set up final universe size and density.

We also need to decide on a handicap system for the experienced players. Or are we leaving it up to the experienced players to handicap themselves?



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Re: New Game for Beginners Sat, 21 January 2017 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
ManicLurch wrote on Fri, 20 January 2017 17:39
Many experts have played AR in games and been blown away early in those games. AR is fun to play, but hard. You really need the right game setup for it.
So the rule was really for your own good Mad


Yup.
ARs are not only diferent but much weaker than any other PRT (primary racial trait). Experienced players play AR usually only under 2 conditions:
* it's an AR-only-game
* it's a very long game with preferably pregame-alliances (in this case the AR is chosen due to the "mineral fountain").

The bizarre strangeness of ARs are like a sirene-song luring beginners to choose them. But you don't come with a knife to a pistol duel.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Sat, 21 January 2017 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mijgo is currently offline mijgo

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 14
Registered: January 2017
Location: Russia
d###... Alright, you guys convinced me.

Then I think I'll miss the game this time. Sorry and thanks.

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Re: New Game for Beginners Sun, 22 January 2017 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 985
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi Mijgo,

noone wants that you dont play and I am mostly sure that you can play all the thinks you want.

Main Problem with ar is that you can set attack order to attack the space station. So all ships are ignored and Station is killed.


If you play it and find some ways to keep players away from your station would be your goal.



ccmaster

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Re: New Game for Beginners Sun, 22 January 2017 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ccmaster is currently offline ccmaster

 
Lt. Commander
Dueling Club Administrator

Messages: 985
Registered: November 2002
Location: Germany

Hi,


I would fill up if players needed.

Will also go first for the other "good" players in the game to give the new players more time for build up.


ccmaster

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Re: New Game for Beginners Mon, 23 January 2017 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Entropicurity is currently offline Entropicurity

 
Petty Officer 1st Class

Messages: 62
Registered: November 2007
Location: Northern Indiana, USA

I dare say this is shaping up to be quite the game!


--
"A gem is not polished without rubbing, nor a man perfected without trials." - Chinese Proverb

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Re: New Game for Beginners Mon, 23 January 2017 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
If you want to make the game more friendly to AR maybe disallow target SB for (50?) years, and allow AR build (6?) cheap colonizers.

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