Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » The Academy » Boosters - why DDs?
Boosters - why DDs? Tue, 10 June 2014 16:49 Go to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014
I've heard it claimed that 2xfuel DD are much better boosters than scouts. Is this really the case?

Tech level con 3 / prop 0, -IFE=QJ5 (hence the need for boosters)


2xFuel DD, fuel 780, I 30 (3.Cool, G 6 (0.Cool res 46 (5.9), mass 40
1xFuel Sc, fuel 300, I 13 (4.3), G 6 (2) res 17 (5.6), mass 15

(parenthesized numbers are cost per 100mg of fuel)

Do people prefer the DD because of the lower G requirement? Is it that significant? I normally build say 4-6 boosters max, since they normally come back on turn 2. Do people build so many more that the ~9G per DD equivalent saved adds up?
Other advantage of DD: you can add cheap lasers (but it might not catch unarmed ships anyway?)
Disadvantage of DD: less flexible (with scouts you can boost 300/600/900, with DD only 780/1560)

Am I missing something obvious?

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Tue, 10 June 2014 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
Calculate how much fuel is available for boosting after leaving enough for an 81ly round trip for each design.


What we need's a few good taters.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Wed, 11 June 2014 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
DDs give more bang for the buck just when minerals are scarcer. They are longer range and the puny lasers can really help protecting fragile colonizers. If you're building less than a dozen then you're not expanding/moving pop fast enough. Pirate

References:

"how-to" guide for expansion (r.g.c.s)

Radical Uses for the Destroyer

Tricks of the Trade (long)

How do U use Boosters?


[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2014 07:12]




So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Wed, 11 June 2014 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014
skoormit wrote on Tue, 10 June 2014 20:10
Calculate how much fuel is available for boosting after leaving enough for an 81ly round trip for each design.


Good point, fuel - 2x81 = boost.

However, fuel consumption in both cases is around 37% (DD: 488/700 left = 62.5%, Scout: 190/300 left = 63.3%), so the ratios don't really change.

What does change is the total number of ships you need, which magnifies the germanium savings. I guess if build a dozen DD boosters ~ 30 Scout boosters you are saving 12x8=100 germanium, which is significant.

I generally use priv colonizers once I reach con 4, but I guess in terms of saving resources it might be better to use a re-usable freighter plus a DD or colony ship colonizer, so less resources are 'wasted' in the colonization. What do you guys use?

@m.a thanks for the links. I hadn't seen the DD one and the rcgs one, some interesting points in there!


[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2014 08:04]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Wed, 11 June 2014 08:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 14:03
I generally use priv colonizers once I reach con 4, but I guess in terms of saving resources it might be better to use a re-usable freighter plus a DD or colony ship colonizer, so less resources are 'wasted' in the colonization. What do you guys use?


Depends...
# Nearby in safe territory I use for colonizations what's cheapest: small colonizer

# Farther away or with only the slightest chance to meet hostiles I use a priv with shields and col-pod plus 1-2 armed DDs (optional with a 2nd fuel pod if needed). If I think it necessary, I might even send 2 DDs, 2 privs with colonizer module plus 2 privs with fuel pods. Due to the stacked armor and shields this is a colonisation fleet not easily stopped. The price is quite high but usually it pays back not only by a successful colonisation of an important planet close by or in enemy territory but also by forcing the enemy to escort all his freighters... obviously my sent DDs will have a secondary role after having successfully escorted the colonisation fleet.

A medium freighter or small colonizer on the other hand can easily be shot down even against a superiour escort force when using the battle orders to target freighters first. And this is really fun: everybody who once succeeded in shooting down the single small colonizer in a bigger fleet and watched all this now purposeless ships knows what I am talking about.

# Last third of the game I use a large freighter design with shields and colonisation pod (which, by then, is my single standard freighter... a bit more expensive but at that time shipslots are more important than resources)

The logic behind it: pop and especially colonisation endevours are much too important to endanger them due to a few saved resources.

mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 14:03
Other advantage of DD: you can add cheap lasers (but it might not catch unarmed ships anyway?)


True enough... a DD might be even too slow to catch a scout. But early on a DD with the primary role of an escort/fuel booster doesn't need speed, the enemy is coming to the slow DD or the slow ships it is escorting.
And for its secondary role; freighters are slow and even slower when loaded, so even a slow DD has a chance (you might need 2 DDs nevertheless to shoot down a shielded priv with blue or xray lasers, though).


[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2014 09:05]

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Thu, 12 June 2014 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008
Location: Alabama
mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 07:03
skoormit wrote on Tue, 10 June 2014 20:10
Calculate how much fuel is available for boosting after leaving enough for an 81ly round trip for each design.


Good point, fuel - 2x81 = boost.

However, fuel consumption in both cases is around 37% (DD: 488/700 left = 62.5%, Scout: 190/300 left = 63.3%), so the ratios don't really change.



I didn't realize they were that close, but it makes sense: the weight ratio (40:15 = 2.67) is almost the same as the fuel ratio (780:300 = 2.6).

One advantage the scout has in this case is granularity: you can get closer to building "just enough" boost capacity each year.
That's a rather fine point to whittle, but if you are trying to play against humans and you don't have IFE and you don't have a PRT that is equipped to deal with it (IT, HE, SD, maybe IS), you need to be whittling some fine points to avoid losing out in the early expansion races.




What we need's a few good taters.

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Thu, 12 June 2014 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrvan is currently offline mrvan

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014
Altruist wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 08:56

A medium freighter or small colonizer on the other hand can easily be shot down even against a superiour escort force when using the battle orders to target freighters first. And this is really fun: everybody who once succeeded in shooting down the single small colonizer in a bigger fleet and watched all this now purposeless ships knows what I am talking about.


... a good reason for using a DD colonizer with a single xray ...

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Thu, 12 June 2014 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
Lt. Commander

Messages: 957
Registered: August 2012
mrvan wrote on Thu, 12 June 2014 18:31
Altruist wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 08:56

A medium freighter or small colonizer on the other hand can easily be shot down even against a superiour escort force when using the battle orders to target freighters first. And this is really fun: everybody who once succeeded in shooting down the single small colonizer in a bigger fleet and watched all this now purposeless ships knows what I am talking about.


... a good reason for using a DD colonizer with a single xray ...
and chicken orders

Report message to a moderator

Re: Boosters - why DDs? Fri, 13 June 2014 05:03 Go to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
Commander

Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left
skoormit wrote on Thu, 12 June 2014 19:07
I didn't realize they were that close, but it makes sense: the weight ratio (40:15 = 2.67) is almost the same as the fuel ratio (780:300 = 2.6).

One advantage the scout has in this case is granularity: you can get closer to building "just enough" boost capacity each year.

Yes, of course. But you should care more about how much extra fuel you can give your pop-carriers than about return trips. My rule of thumb is: if my boosters return to base with more than the bare minimum, and in fact none gets stranded on the way back for lack of fuel, then I have too many boosters, but until then it's all stops pulled out. Whip

Another neat trick for the DD that you'll hardly see with the SC: don't return them to base to refuel, but just leave 'em sitting in open space for the next pop-transport to refuel with. And if they're armed, don't return 'em at all, but prop up your initial borders with 'em. Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: Terraforming
Next Topic: Remapping problem
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Mar 29 01:57:24 EDT 2024