Boosters - why DDs? |
Tue, 10 June 2014 16:49 |
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mrvan | | Officer Cadet 1st Year | Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014 | |
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I've heard it claimed that 2xfuel DD are much better boosters than scouts. Is this really the case?
Tech level con 3 / prop 0, -IFE=QJ5 (hence the need for boosters)
2xFuel DD, fuel 780, I 30 (3., G 6 (0. res 46 (5.9), mass 40
1xFuel Sc, fuel 300, I 13 (4.3), G 6 (2) res 17 (5.6), mass 15
(parenthesized numbers are cost per 100mg of fuel)
Do people prefer the DD because of the lower G requirement? Is it that significant? I normally build say 4-6 boosters max, since they normally come back on turn 2. Do people build so many more that the ~9G per DD equivalent saved adds up?
Other advantage of DD: you can add cheap lasers (but it might not catch unarmed ships anyway?)
Disadvantage of DD: less flexible (with scouts you can boost 300/600/900, with DD only 780/1560)
Am I missing something obvious?
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Re: Boosters - why DDs? |
Wed, 11 June 2014 08:03 |
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mrvan | | Officer Cadet 1st Year | Messages: 220
Registered: May 2014 | |
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skoormit wrote on Tue, 10 June 2014 20:10Calculate how much fuel is available for boosting after leaving enough for an 81ly round trip for each design.
Good point, fuel - 2x81 = boost.
However, fuel consumption in both cases is around 37% (DD: 488/700 left = 62.5%, Scout: 190/300 left = 63.3%), so the ratios don't really change.
What does change is the total number of ships you need, which magnifies the germanium savings. I guess if build a dozen DD boosters ~ 30 Scout boosters you are saving 12x8=100 germanium, which is significant.
I generally use priv colonizers once I reach con 4, but I guess in terms of saving resources it might be better to use a re-usable freighter plus a DD or colony ship colonizer, so less resources are 'wasted' in the colonization. What do you guys use?
@m.a thanks for the links. I hadn't seen the DD one and the rcgs one, some interesting points in there!
[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2014 08:04] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Boosters - why DDs? |
Wed, 11 June 2014 08:56 |
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mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 14:03I generally use priv colonizers once I reach con 4, but I guess in terms of saving resources it might be better to use a re-usable freighter plus a DD or colony ship colonizer, so less resources are 'wasted' in the colonization. What do you guys use?
Depends...
# Nearby in safe territory I use for colonizations what's cheapest: small colonizer
# Farther away or with only the slightest chance to meet hostiles I use a priv with shields and col-pod plus 1-2 armed DDs (optional with a 2nd fuel pod if needed). If I think it necessary, I might even send 2 DDs, 2 privs with colonizer module plus 2 privs with fuel pods. Due to the stacked armor and shields this is a colonisation fleet not easily stopped. The price is quite high but usually it pays back not only by a successful colonisation of an important planet close by or in enemy territory but also by forcing the enemy to escort all his freighters... obviously my sent DDs will have a secondary role after having successfully escorted the colonisation fleet.
A medium freighter or small colonizer on the other hand can easily be shot down even against a superiour escort force when using the battle orders to target freighters first. And this is really fun: everybody who once succeeded in shooting down the single small colonizer in a bigger fleet and watched all this now purposeless ships knows what I am talking about.
# Last third of the game I use a large freighter design with shields and colonisation pod (which, by then, is my single standard freighter... a bit more expensive but at that time shipslots are more important than resources)
The logic behind it: pop and especially colonisation endevours are much too important to endanger them due to a few saved resources.
mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 14:03Other advantage of DD: you can add cheap lasers (but it might not catch unarmed ships anyway?)
True enough... a DD might be even too slow to catch a scout. But early on a DD with the primary role of an escort/fuel booster doesn't need speed, the enemy is coming to the slow DD or the slow ships it is escorting.
And for its secondary role; freighters are slow and even slower when loaded, so even a slow DD has a chance (you might need 2 DDs nevertheless to shoot down a shielded priv with blue or xray lasers, though).
[Updated on: Wed, 11 June 2014 09:05] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Boosters - why DDs? |
Thu, 12 June 2014 13:07 |
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skoormit | | Lieutenant | Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008 Location: Alabama | |
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mrvan wrote on Wed, 11 June 2014 07:03skoormit wrote on Tue, 10 June 2014 20:10Calculate how much fuel is available for boosting after leaving enough for an 81ly round trip for each design.
Good point, fuel - 2x81 = boost.
However, fuel consumption in both cases is around 37% (DD: 488/700 left = 62.5%, Scout: 190/300 left = 63.3%), so the ratios don't really change.
I didn't realize they were that close, but it makes sense: the weight ratio (40:15 = 2.67) is almost the same as the fuel ratio (780:300 = 2.6).
One advantage the scout has in this case is granularity: you can get closer to building "just enough" boost capacity each year.
That's a rather fine point to whittle, but if you are trying to play against humans and you don't have IFE and you don't have a PRT that is equipped to deal with it (IT, HE, SD, maybe IS), you need to be whittling some fine points to avoid losing out in the early expansion races.
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Re: Boosters - why DDs? |
Fri, 13 June 2014 05:03 |
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m.a@stars | | Commander | Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004 Location: Third star to the left | |
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skoormit wrote on Thu, 12 June 2014 19:07I didn't realize they were that close, but it makes sense: the weight ratio (40:15 = 2.67) is almost the same as the fuel ratio (780:300 = 2.6).
One advantage the scout has in this case is granularity: you can get closer to building "just enough" boost capacity each year.
Yes, of course. But you should care more about how much extra fuel you can give your pop-carriers than about return trips. My rule of thumb is: if my boosters return to base with more than the bare minimum, and in fact none gets stranded on the way back for lack of fuel, then I have too many boosters, but until then it's all stops pulled out.
Another neat trick for the DD that you'll hardly see with the SC: don't return them to base to refuel, but just leave 'em sitting in open space for the next pop-transport to refuel with. And if they're armed, don't return 'em at all, but prop up your initial borders with 'em.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
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