Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Dynamic Duos 6
Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Sat, 29 March 2014 11:23 |
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skoormit | | Lieutenant | Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008 Location: Alabama | |
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craebild wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 02:54skoormit wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 04:44Deadline for race submission is midnight the night of April 1st, SAH time.
Send those files to <my name> at gmail. Please mention your forum name and who your teammate is.
(My name is skoormit.)
That leads to two things that should be clarified.
Is that midnight the night between March 31st and April 1st, or is it midnight the night between April 1st and April 2nd ?
I assume you mean midnight GMT (also known as UTC), the time used on the game pages ? The forum pages display times in the clock the member chooses.
Sorry, I thought my first post was sufficiently disambiguated.
"Midnight the night of" means the midnight after the date in question, as opposed to "midnight the morning of."
"SAH time" means the time according to the SAH site (which can be seen on any game page), not the time displayed on the forums (which, as you note, is adjusted to the user's preferred time zone).
[Updated on: Sat, 29 March 2014 11:25]
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Sat, 29 March 2014 11:28 |
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skoormit | | Lieutenant | Messages: 665
Registered: July 2008 Location: Alabama | |
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neilhoward wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 02:16skoormit,
How will you distribute our HWs (spoke and hub, or ring)?
Also, will you remap the stars into a circle, so that no one gets a corner that is harder to contest?
When you host do you usually look at number of habitable worlds nearby or avg mineral conce in each player's neighbourhood?
I am open to any instructions or parameters. The more specific the instructions or parameters, the longer it will take before a suitable universe is found. (But I assume you are all patient players, and would rather wait a bit longer to have a better universe.)
So, just tell me what is required, and I will endeavor to make it so.
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Sat, 29 March 2014 16:02 |
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skoormit wrote on Sat, 29 March 2014 16:23"Midnight the night of" means the midnight after the date in question, as opposed to "midnight the morning of."
"SAH time" means the time according to the SAH site (which can be seen on any game page), not the time displayed on the forums (which, as you note, is adjusted to the user's preferred time zone).
SAH Games page uses UTC, which simply means the deadline is:
April 2nd, 2014, 00:00 UTC
Or for the military types out there:
020000Z APR 2014.
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Sun, 30 March 2014 18:28 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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Skoormit,
I would like the stars distributed in a circle, and teams radiating out from the centre like spokes on a wheel. This way there is no uneven advantage from access to corners, and each team has one player closer to the centre. I prefer that each team has their HWs within 162ly of each other, and that the nearest enemies (for the player closer to the centre) be ~300ly distant.
A medium dense universe has ~360 stars at a density of 2.5 stars per 10kly^2 (or 1 star per 40kly^2). To achieve that density a circle would need a diameter of ~677ly.
I would gen the medium dense uni and stretch to large size with Stretched Universe, then remap to a circle with Universe Creator 1.3, then move HWs with Xyligun's StarsHostTool.
Here is an image template to use with UC 1.3, to remap a for a circle. To visualize the spokes I recommend I have added transects with the grey line showing distance to scale between team HWs, and a red line showing distance to scale between closest enemies. Last, is an image of one possible distribution of HWs. Of course we do not want to use this exactly, as it would be too easy to predict the positions of enemy HWs. If inner worlds are ~300ly from the centre and ~300ly (ie between 257 and 324ly) from their nearest enemies that should be adequate if each inner world average between their two nearest neighbours is close to those averages of all inner HWs.
Here is a reference for universe size info, and a tutorial to resize a universe.
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Mon, 31 March 2014 09:44 |
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Hi,
as I want to play the game like it was posted I have no interrest in stretch ring or anything else.
Gen a game move the HW's and let start !!
ccmaster
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Mon, 31 March 2014 17:17 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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ManicLurch wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 09:51neilhoward wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 18:28
I would gen the medium dense uni and stretch to large size ...
Is this what you did to create the universe with DD5? It seemed like a medium universe to me that we played in. Why the stretch? Does it make moving worlds eaiser? I really didn't want to play in a large universe, but maybe I don't completely understand what you are doing here.
I really liked the universe you created for DD5, it was ideal for this game setup. There was no advantage on where you started.
Because you only had 5 teams in DD5, I merely remapped the medium dense so that all stars were in a circle 1200ly diameter, which pushed the density up to 3.1 stars per 10.000ly^2. This was a convenience to maintain the same relative distances as if there were 6 teams. By stretching to large, we can have a circle slightly wider (1354) than the medium universe (1200), but giving us the same actual area and density.
craebild wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 13:12I agree, placing the races in a pattern like in the image from DD5 seems a good way to distribute the races - With six spokes rather than five spokes, as there are six teams, of course. But teammate HWs should be closer to each other than to enemy HWs, preferably considerably closer.
And the universe should not be stretched, the races the players have set up for this game have surely been designed for the distance and stellar density announced in the game post, not the distances and stellar density seen in a medium universe stretched to large size.
The stretching will not increase the size of the universe in which there are stars, it will simply allow them to be distributed in a circle instead of a square and maintain the same density and average distance between stars as in a medium dense universe. If you note the circle template, stars are only positioned in the white space, leaving a large amount of the space empty.
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Mon, 31 March 2014 17:27 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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ccmaster wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 06:44Hi,
as I want to play the game like it was posted I have no interrest in stretch ring or anything else.
Gen a game move the HW's and let start !!
ccmaster
You joined a game while the rules were still being discussed.
Asmodai wrote on Mon, 31 March 2014 07:05Quote:I would prefer you take as long as you need As soon as possible we should start the game. We are waiting quite long with this game.
Quote:taking two weeks to gen
Er...i hoped to start in next 48hrs.
I know the feeling, but please do not be so anxious. You drop out of a significant number of games you join (~50% of the games I have hosted or played in, iirc), but I do not. When I am still playing this game in seven months, I will appreciate the time and consideration put into the setup. Also, Xyligun's editing tool makes the job of planet moving *much* easier than before, much less time consuming. In the case of setting up DD5, I was hosting another game, playing in a third, and working 60+ hours/week.
[Updated on: Mon, 31 March 2014 17:29] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Mon, 31 March 2014 20:02 |
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neilhoward | | Commander | Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008 Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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neilhoward wrote on Sun, 30 March 2014 15:28...
A medium dense universe has ~360 stars at a density of 2.5 stars per 10kly^2 (or 1 star per 40kly^2). To achieve that density a circle would need a diameter of ~677ly.
Should read radius of ~677ly. So, 677*677*π=1.439.883ly^2. Whereas the square medium dense has 1.440.000ly^2, a staggering 0.00008% difference.
[Updated on: Mon, 31 March 2014 20:04] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Tue, 01 April 2014 04:20 |
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Hi.
Yes I joined a game where rules are not fix but if you want to change the universe in such massive ways tat have to be anounced before racevlbuild as this makes a big different !
So can we make a vote for this circle thing ?
Wnd if we are going for this I would like to change races for the game.
Ccmaster
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Tue, 01 April 2014 11:25 |
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Asmodai | | Officer Cadet 1st Year | Messages: 214
Registered: February 2012 | |
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Quote:When I am still playing this game in seven months, I will appreciate the time and consideration put into the setup. Ok.I get it. Red carpet for Neil!
Quote:I think most of us had designed our races on the premise that this would be standard universe.
The idea of this circular one, fairer, but seems somewhat sterile. I haven't played in a custom universe like this before so maybe someone else can comment on how much it is worth doing this.
That said, I have no specific objections to the set-up described for my race, but if this involves one or more players redesigning their races, adopting a different whole-game strategy, and re-discussing tactics ... maybe it would be better to proceeded with a regular universe.
Circular setup is more predictable - you can estimate, where enemy HW are. Roughly. Also, person that is doing the setup thing can prevent you getting poor mineral concentration on HW - in normal setup it sometimes happends and you must live with it. He cannot make all players happy, but at least all get fair chances in the beginning. Being closer to your ally means, that you will be able to exchange techs quite soon. circular setup means, that no player will exploit advantage for being in corner or be handicaped for being in corner(being in corner is advantage/disadvantage - it is clearly dependand of your/your ally race and strategy for entire game.)
As for race design - i dont think, that this setup alter too much - if the race work in standard environement, it will work in circular universe with fixed starting positions.
My vote is for circular one.
[Updated on: Tue, 01 April 2014 11:26] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Tue, 01 April 2014 11:37 |
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I happen to have taken over the DD5 game where Neil used the similar, circular setup. I must honestly say it did not make the game feel any different for me, as I could simply and conveniently ignore the empty space in the corner of the galaxy.
There's this one possibility for the wormhole to spawn in that "outer rim" area, but then, wormholes are so random anyway that you just use them as long as they are conveniently placed, and shield them off otherwise. I doubt that'll be much of an issue.
That said, the "corners" can be easily avoided simply by relocating players' HWs so that no one starts in the corner. The whole circle thing would simply ensure "fairer" planet distribution, meaning no high-value planet can be safely tucked in a corner, behind the back of any given team (which means that the defending team is guaranteed to get it before any other team has the chance).
IMHO the circular distribution will not alter the way the races should play, as long as the distances between planets, as well as their density, remain within specs of the medium-dense galaxy setup.
EDIT: in case anyone needs a clear-cast vote, my vote goes "for" the circular setup as proposed by Neil.
[Updated on: Tue, 01 April 2014 11:39] by Moderator
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Re: Dynamic Duos 6 |
Tue, 01 April 2014 12:05 |
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vmanuel | | Chief Warrant Officer 3 | Messages: 187
Registered: October 2004 Location: Dallas, TX USA | |
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A note from Rolf -
Hi All,
I seem to be unable to login to the forum, since getting a new modem
and satellite internet, so I'll make my opinion known this way.
I really liked the universe setup in dd5. It was uniform and played
just like you would expect it to play density and size wise, but
without corners. In dd4, I noticed that one set of our neighbors had a
pretty poor initial draw and they couldn't really get anywhere (and it
was a very experienced team). In dd5, everybody started equal. Yes, we
had some useless wormholes, but they are totally random anyway, so you
can be lucky or unlucky in any game setup.
For those that doubt about their races, I totally designed my race for
the density and size as listed in the game setup. I also did my
testing in that. We did the same last game and I had no unpleasant
surprises.
Cheers, Rolf.
Editor in Chief of the Kaynan Space News.
All Space, All The Time - Kaynan!
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