The ability to ask the Jeffs doesn't actually matter.

It is this dodge that is unbalancing, and is (rightly) banned in most games.

...I have M.A.@stars still on ignore and have only read the quotes....

your posts have crossed the line repeatedly.

If you don't want to play with allocation, that's your call.

Don't try to act God and call the others who are ok playing with it as players who are suffering misconceptions or have doubts... or in other words stop insinuating that others aren't smart enough to understand and agree with your point of view.

If we discovered chaff after they had gone what would have been the community decisiin (because that's all we'd have had)?

Do you consider a fleet of 5 dds to be "tanking" the damage?

Yes it matters....

Else we can't stack shields, because stavking ships reduces the damage they get from a minefield...

That wasn't my intention.

m9m and anyone else feeling some frustration,
please be a little bit more generous to m.a.

He is one of the most knowledgeable folks around when it comes to Stars!, and I do not say that lightly. He has made huge contributions to our understanding of how the game works, to say nothing of his collaborations on projects to move the game forward. Don't get me wrong, his attitude infuriates me to no end, but I try to compartmentalise this so that I can glean from his wisdom. I suspect that most of us that are frustrated by the mode in which he chooses to communicate share in some part of that egoism, and this is a good thing! Ego can move conversations forward, and regardless of whether party xyz is correct or not, conversation can improve understanding. A lot of good points have been made from multiple camps, and we should appreciate this. When the conversation causes more more stress than it is worth, it is time to take a break or set someone to ignore. I recommend you don't let this get you down, but start some test beds for long term cost comparisons, so that when you choose to join a game that allows allocation or dodge, you are best prepared to use these viable tactics in the most tactically and strategically appropriate applications.

No, one ship takes 500 dp, 5 ships take 100 dp each...

That's allocation as much as a destroyer accompanied by a high slot ID tanker - or a cruiser/dd combination.

You came into this thread with a pre-existing belief that...

something, I don't even know what since your posts are so incoherent... was inadmissible,

and have proceeded to insinuate that everyone opposing that belief is a cheater

in lieu of any actual counter-argument to ...

our reasoning that if something is hard to avoid and carries no real benefit, it should be permissible.

You have continued to repeat the same vague accusations of "dirty tricks" for 4 whole pages, attempting to smear the reputations of people having an honest discussion,

and preventing any real progress toward the thread's actual purpose.

This is despicable behaviour, and you should be ashamed.

XAPBob wrote on Fri, 18 April 2014 22:22

No, one ship takes 500 dp, 5 ships take 100 dp each...

That's allocation as much as a destroyer accompanied by a high slot ID tanker - or a cruiser/dd combination.

Looks lopsided, but more data is needed, if only for context. You don't seriously want to get a ruling valid for all games and situations with just these parameters, do you?

If your question relates to 5 ships (or is it 6?) of different designs, what are the design IDs? Costs? Other possible benefits gained? Harm done?

disgraceful demagoguery.

5 of the same ship, one token of 5 ships means each ship takes 20% of the damage they would have done if flying alone....

Lets start a duel tournament with allocation and dodge allowed, and an otherwise nonplaying SD race seeding the uni with various mine fields.

XAPBob wrote on Sat, 19 April 2014 19:37

5 of the same ship, one token of 5 ships means each ship takes 20% of the damage they would have done if flying alone....

Ahhh. I hadn't understood what you were trying to say.

But as the helpfile hints, Stars! is a game of "tokens". Stacking identical ships together for varied purposes is a pillar of the game.

A ship that can survive that extra damage is more expensive, and therefore not exploitative.
Compare it with colonization without the module - cheap colonies are a significant economic benefit - and banned.

That's why I'd suggest that allocation is unavoidable, and generally not game changing.

Adding chaff to a DD is not cheaper than using 5x DD.

neilhoward wrote on Sun, 20 April 2014 14:02

Adding chaff to a DD is not cheaper than using 5x DD.

Huh? How is one DD plus one chaff not cheaper than 5 DD?