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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 20:22
Comments, suggestions are welcome! Cool

Plenty of food for thought! Cool
* Those \s args are hard to guess (not that the tools should complain). I wonder if exporting them as hex would help human readers. Sherlock
* I see planets with OwnerId = -1 (with and without stats) and also blank OwnerIds (without stats). I guess the blanks lack a scan?
* Where's the IsHW info? Hit Computer
* Battle reports have scary Args. Confused

Also, how many of the whole list of possible msgs have you managed to see? Plenty? Half? Most? Are all the "important" ones accounted for?



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 08:56

Quote:
\s had orders to transfer cargo to or from a \G. A futile pursuit.

The "futile pursuit" is most definitely related to Wormholes. UFO abduction


Negative. This one is for a "Mine Field".



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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skoormit wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 22:32
Negative. This one is for a "Mine Field".

Funny, I don't remember ever having tried to do business with a minefield. Do you mean it's the same error msg for both, or we must look for the WormHole msg elsewhere? Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 15:56
I'm sure if you show us what the exported info looks like now, you'd be able to collect many useful suggestions! Cool

I meant the fleet info and all the other bits you're extracting that aren't easy to cast into Stars!-style reports. Teleport



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In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Thu, 08 August 2013 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
skoormit is currently offline skoormit

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 16:11
skoormit wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 22:32
Negative. This one is for a "Mine Field".

Funny, I don't remember ever having tried to do business with a minefield. Do you mean it's the same error msg for both, or we must look for the WormHole msg elsewhere? Sherlock


Dunno, I've never tried to do business with a wormhole. But I have unintentionally set a waypoint for a minefield centered just next to a planet, and then given orders to unload cargo there. And that's when I get the "futile" message.

And it is spelled "Mine Field" in the message.

It's easy enough to test it on a wormhole, isn't it?



What we need's a few good taters.

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 06:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Thu, 08 August 2013 11:14

XAPBob, just wondering, what kind of tool(s) are you going to do first once you have all of this info exported? Smile

Automated shipping manifests etc.

I already have a (3MB currently) spreadsheet that looks at multiple P files (although it can do with just one) and looks at the most effective way to manage minerals, including lists of the planets with have most of a mineral to spare, and those which need the most of different minerals to maximise production. The sheet is fully automated, so all I need to do is the "refresh all" to import the new year P files - the answers just drop out.

Every so often I look at changes to mineral/resource cost for the ships to account for miniaturisation.


My next query will be obvious - whether I can produce a "starting point" X file according the rules I apply to the m file (I imagine that trying to append to an already written x file might be too much like hard work)

So I start up my turn and it's already done that years mineral/colonist shipping etc. Then I can concentrate on strategy and planning.
Obviously the algorithms for deciding on what to write to the x file is going to be fun...

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XAPBob wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 12:09
I already have a (3MB currently) spreadsheet that looks at multiple P files (although it can do with just one) and looks at the most effective way to manage minerals, including lists of the planets with have most of a mineral to spare, and those which need the most of different minerals to maximise production.

Wow, mamma! All my Javascript tools put together "weigh" less tan 800k, though most of them are only half-automated. I guess it's not just the VBS code that takes that much space? Sherlock

And yes indeed, a way to include even the simplest ship orders/waypoints right into the x file would be a huge step forward. Cool



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
* Those \s args are hard to guess (not that the tools should complain). I wonder if exporting them as hex would help human readers. Sherlock

It's just a zero based fleet id. Or may be you are talking about HintId?
m.a@stars
* I see planets with OwnerId = -1 (with and without stats) and also blank OwnerIds (without stats). I guess the blanks lack a scan?

Exactly. Owner = -1 means planet is scanned, but it is uninhabited. Owner = blank means we don't know if it is populated or not.
m.a@stars
* Where's the IsHW info? Hit Computer

Oups, it was skipped unintentionally, I'll add it.
m.a@stars
* Battle reports have scary Args. Confused

Are you talking about these big numbers? They are just an \n - which is 4 bytes location value.
m.a@stars
Also, how many of the whole list of possible msgs have you managed to see? Plenty? Half? Most? Are all the "important" ones accounted for?

Well, I don't think I saw most of them or even half. But I was not intended to. What I was trying is to find at least several messages for each param type, and almost all of them were found.



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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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XAPBob
So I start up my turn and it's already done that years mineral/colonist shipping etc. Then I can concentrate on strategy and planning.
Obviously the algorithms for deciding on what to write to the x file is going to be fun...

Makes sense.
Here is a quick stat on x files (which are the player action log) of my games collection:


    Block Count %
  • WaypointAddBlock 23776 24,97%
  • WaypointChangeTaskBlock 21512 22,59%
  • ProductionQueueChangeBlock 10626 11,15%
  • FleetChangeBlock 10300 10,81%
  • FleetSplitBlock 10001 10,50%
  • ManualMediumLoadUnloadTaskBlock 3695 3,88%
  • DesignChangeBlock 3451 3,62%
  • FleetsMergeBlock 2804 2,94%
  • WaypointDeleteBlock 2757 2,89%
  • ManualSmallLoadUnloadTaskBlock 1504 1,57%
  • SaveAndSubmitBlock 1286 1,35%
  • WaypointRepeatOrdersBlock 912 0,95%
  • PlanetChangeBlock 765 0,80%
  • ResearchChangeBlock 666 0,69%
  • SetFleetBattlePlanBlock 490 0,51%
  • RenameFleetBlock 453 0,47%
  • MessageBlock 128 0,13%
  • BattlePlanBlock 54 0,05%
  • PlayersRelationChangeBlock 38 0,03%


As you can see about 50% (Waypoint add + change + delete) are waypoint manipulations.
Another 25% (Fleet merge, change, split) is a fleet manipulations.
And 11% is a production queue manipulation.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 16:55
Or may be you are talking about HintId?

HintId, actually. These big numbers could try hex format for human readability, and the same for coordinates. Shocked

Quote:
m.a@stars
* Where's the IsHW info? Hit Computer

Oups, it was skipped unintentionally, I'll add it.

Great! Cool

Quote:
Well, I don't think I saw most of them or even half. But I was not intended to. What I was trying is to find at least several messages for each param type, and almost all of them were found.

Fair enough. So the users of your tool will get a nice surprise from time to time. Very Happy



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 18:53

  • BattlePlanBlock 54 0,05%
  • PlayersRelationChangeBlock 38 0,03%

Which reminds me, Battle Plans and Player Relations would be very interesting exports too! Pirate

Quote:
As you can see about 50% (Waypoint add + change + delete) are waypoint manipulations.
Another 25% (Fleet merge, change, split) is a fleet manipulations.
And 11% is a production queue manipulation.

Have you per any chance tested if it's easy enough to "manipulate" these blocks without causing Stars! trouble? Sherlock



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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One thing at a time...

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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:-)__


So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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XAPBob
So I start up my turn and it's already done that years mineral/colonist shipping etc. Then I can concentrate on strategy and planning.
Obviously the algorithms for deciding on what to write to the x file is going to be fun...

So, the first task for your spreadsheets/ AI assistant will be to have over 25k resources by 2450? Very Happy



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Sat, 10 August 2013 00:25
So, the first task for your spreadsheets/ AI assistant will be to have over 25k resources by 2450? Very Happy

That'd put it above the current AIs, wouldn't it? Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Fri, 09 August 2013 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
:-)__

What about production queues? Wink
PS: IsHomeWorld property added for planets as well.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 09 August 2013 23:48
XyliGUN wrote on Sat, 10 August 2013 00:25
So, the first task for your spreadsheets/ AI assistant will be to have over 25k resources by 2450? Very Happy

That'd put it above the current AIs, wouldn't it? Pirate

Lol - I'm not looking at complete AI (yet) just at reducing MM

I'm sure that I could put a "testbed" AI together which would achieve 25k, but it wouldn't built warships etc, so it's not really a fair comparison with the actual AIs themselves.

In the same way that the arvids aren't really a fair comparison with other ARs under test.

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Sat, 10 August 2013 01:33
m.a@stars
:-)__

What about production queues? Wink
PS: IsHomeWorld property added for planets as well.

wOOt 2
They look a bit cryptic, tho. I hope they won't be hard to interpret. Sherlock

I'm also guessing the isHW bits aren't present for non-scanned worlds, right? Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XAPBob wrote on Sat, 10 August 2013 08:46
I'm sure that I could put a "testbed" AI together which would achieve 25k, but it wouldn't built warships etc,

Well, that'd be the turf of the "danger analyzer", the AutoBuildShip Queues, the Auto Router, and probably an "opportunity analyzer". Dueling

After all, it doesn't need to actually play well, or even win, just being better than the other AIs should be plenty enough. Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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balancing war effort with economy is hard.

if we do (after the scraper) get an x writer then yes, we can start on AI. but that's a way down the road.

Automation of economic mm is a good start, and relatively easy to do (although IT needs special rules...

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XAPBob wrote on Sat, 10 August 2013 11:57
balancing war effort with economy is hard.

Hence the continued interest in such a deceptively simple game as Stars! Rolling Eyes


Quote:
IT needs special rules...

As do HE, AR, IS, and CA... Twisted Evil



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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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Not HE, mild change for CA, Freighter growth rate (+.5PGR, -2%, 0) is just a variable, no special rules...

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Not too special, you mean. Rolling Eyes


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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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m.a@stars
I'm also guessing the isHW bits aren't present for non-scanned worlds, right? Pirate

Must be a bug... I'll check.

m.a@stars
They look a bit cryptic, tho. I hope they won't be hard to interpret. Sherlock


It's not that hard. Here is my research notes:
BuiltIn: 0 - ship or starbase, 1 - planetary (mines, factories, terraforming, etc.)

ItemId (I don't have a full list, but it's pretty easy to fill it in):

  • 0 = "Mines Up to " ItemCount
  • 1 = "Factories Up to " ItemCount
  • 2 = "Defences Up to " ItemCount
  • 3 = "Alchemy As Needed"
  • 4 = "Min Terraform Up to " ItemCount%
  • 5 = "Max Terraform Up to " ItemCount%
  • 6 = "Mineral Packets Up to " ItemCount
  • 7 = "Factory " ItemCount
  • 8 = "Mine " ItemCount
  • 9 = "Defenses " ItemCount
  • 10 = ???
  • 11 = "Mineral Alchemy " ItemCount
  • 12 = "Terraform Environment " ItemCount%;
  • 13 = ???
  • 14 = "Ironium Mineral Packet " ItemCount
  • 15 = "Boranium Mineral Packet " ItemCount
  • 16 = "Germanium Mineral Packet " ItemCount
  • 17 = "Mixed Mineral Packet " ItemCount
  • ... ???
  • 27 = "Planetary Scanner"


If BuiltIn = 0, then ItemId:
0-15 = "Ships of Design Id = <ItemId> " x " <ItemCount>
16-25 = "Starbase of Design Id = " <ItemId - 16> " x " <ItemCount>

Hope that helps.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: "message pane" scraper Sat, 10 August 2013 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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Messages: 325
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m.a@stars
XyliGUN
As you can see about 50% (Waypoint add + change + delete) are waypoint manipulations.
Another 25% (Fleet merge, change, split) is a fleet manipulations.
And 11% is a production queue manipulation.

Have you per any chance tested if it's easy enough to "manipulate" these blocks without causing Stars! trouble? Sherlock

x file blocks manipulation is pretty easy thing if you know an encryption (especially comparing to hst and m files manipulation) and I had done several tests, which works well, but being able to just write x file blocks isn't the biggest problem here.
Imho, it's not a good idea to just give ppl a possibility to add any block to the x file, since first of all I have to research how will Stars! react on any of possible unintentionally wrong/added by mistake blocks ("free pop hack" is one example here, and giving order to the foreign fleet will be another one), and if Stars! will react badly, then some sort of verifier will be required. Also I have to ensure that such a "tools" will only give a possibility to perform a valid order and prevent from "shooting yourself in the foot", which makes things much more complex then just x file blocks manipulation. Hope that makes sense.

XAPBob
One thing at a time...

This is stated perfectly. Very Happy



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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