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Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 24 July 2013 15:55 Go to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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There are a bunch of games, which are played with remapped universe. But if you try to setup such a game, you will most likely have a difficulties, since Stars! itself does not allow stars moving, and can only place them in random location. Due to limitations, which currently available 3rd party tools has it could be a real pain and time consuming task to setup such a game. Even more the most popular tools allow you to move stars up and down and sometimes move them a bit left or a bit right, and once you need to significally move a HV, then you are in a real trouble. And if you need to have lets say 8 players start locations in the specific areas or place (see for example game like this) then you have to create a lot of test games until one will be more or less like one you need, then do some magic with moving stars up and down. And even when you pass thru all of these steps and found a good seed, move planets to more or less good location, you will then have some (pretty minor, but still) issues with your fleets initial location, their waypoints and with initial in game events pointers.

OK, one with the knowledge of the Stars! file structure can workaround all of these limitations, but even with these knowledge you have to manually edit about 20 blocks in each player m file, then edit about 20 blocks for each player in hst file, then make changes in xy file as well. I was doing such setup for Wheel of life IV and believe me that a lot of manual work. I was trying some available scripting alternatives, but they hardly can do what you really need to do.

At a time when Wheel of Life V was being created I finally come up with a tool (StarsPlanetMover), which just takes planet ID, target planet X and Y coordinates (which are not limited by height or width, other then size of universe of cause) and... moves it with all its' content to the new location, then updates all references to that planet (like orbiting fleets, waypoints, in game events). The game was remapped successfully and as far as I know it was played without any issues up to the end. Now I think its' time to publish this tool, may be within a week (just need to make some minor polishing like command line validation etc.), since it will make setup of such games much much easier. And this may open a lot of possibility to setup remapped games.

Some technical details: yes, tool works thru encryption (no passwords required either players or host, but SAH games have no host password anyway), and updates xy, m, hst files. As to security concern as I've already mentioned, while decompilation of such a tool is possible, but a smart beginner level developer can get decryption code from this forum much much easier within a minute or so (I can't give you more details, but Ron know what I'm talking about).

Comments, ideas, objections are welcome!

PS: If you need to remap some game right now, let me know.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Fri, 26 July 2013 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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"StarsPlanetMover".. Hmm, sounds familiar..
I think I saw a link to it in the Wiki Utility list, but the file wasn't there..

Edit - Ah my bad.. I was thinking of the "Stars Planet Swapper"
http://wiki.starsautohost.org/wiki/Utilities/Index#Stars_Pla net_Swapper

To the topic, with the number of exploitable bugs, I don't understand why useful tools should be held back.
One could argue that it could lead to more wide-spread exploitation opportunities, but the benefits of tools far out-weighs the cons.

ps - is it also possible to change wormholes using this? Smile



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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Fri, 26 July 2013 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
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Hi, welcome back XyliGUN.

I was the non-playing host of Wheel of Life V, and I did not see or hear about any issues in the game - At least not any issues related to the remapping. There were some players who were unhappy about the fact that the game rather early effectively turned into a 4 vs 4 game, but that could happen with almost any 8 person game regardless of whether it is remapped.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Fri, 26 July 2013 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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nmid, why would you like to move wormholes? They are unstable beasts. Smile
This tool cannot move wormholes, but it can be dome pretty easily.
Do you think this would be useful?




"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Sat, 27 July 2013 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 24 July 2013 21:55
OK, one with the knowledge of the Stars! file structure can workaround all of these limitations, but even with these knowledge you have to manually edit about 20 blocks in each player m file, then edit about 20 blocks for each player in hst file, then make changes in xy file as well. I was doing such setup for Wheel of life IV and believe me that a lot of manual work. I was trying some available scripting alternatives, but they hardly can do what you really need to do.

At a time when Wheel of Life V was being created I finally come up with a tool (StarsPlanetMover), which just takes planet ID, target planet X and Y coordinates (which are not limited by height or width, other then size of universe of cause) and... moves it with all its' content to the new location, then updates all references to that planet (like orbiting fleets, waypoints, in game events). The game was remapped successfully and as far as I know it was played without any issues up to the end. Now I think its' time to publish this tool, may be within a week (just need to make some minor polishing like command line validation etc.), since it will make setup of such games much much easier. And this may open a lot of possibility to setup remapped games.

Some technical details: yes, tool works thru encryption (no passwords required either players or host, but SAH games have no host password anyway), and updates xy, m, hst files. As to security concern as I've already mentioned, while decompilation of such a tool is possible, but a smart beginner level developer can get decryption code from this forum much much easier within a minute or so (I can't give you more details, but Ron know what I'm talking about).

You could publish the source-code to all but the encryption-related stuff, or at least the "knowledge of the Stars! file structure" you used to build the tool itself. Cool

There's a thread out there where such advanced and useful knowledge of all file structures could (and should) be posted. Sherlock



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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Sat, 27 July 2013 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 26 July 2013 18:25
This tool cannot move wormholes, but it can be dome pretty easily.
Do you think this would be useful?

For some kinds of scenarios, Yes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Mon, 29 July 2013 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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This sounds Awesome.


[Updated on: Mon, 29 July 2013 23:57]

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Tue, 30 July 2013 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sat, 27 July 2013 10:25
XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 26 July 2013 18:25
This tool cannot move wormholes, but it can be dome pretty easily.
Do you think this would be useful?

For some kinds of scenarios, Yes

Would that mean you could effectively define fixed wormholes for the duration of a game?

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Tue, 30 July 2013 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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OK, here is a promised tool.

How to:

  • first you have to create a game using Stars! with required universe size, planets density and all other settings as usual
  • then once you have xy, hst & m files (they all should be located in one folder) you can start moving planets
  • open a turn as usual, select a planet you would like to move and note a planet ID as it shown below the map (like "ID #67")
  • note a map coordinates you would like to move this planet to (like "X: 1052, Y: 1057") and ensure there is no another planet at the same location
  • type StarsHostTool <YourPathGoesHere>\<YourGameNameGoesHere>.xy /move 67 1052 1057
  • tool will then update your xy, hst & m files to move specified planet to the new location.

Remarks:
After the move planet name and all of its' content should be the same, but planet ID will be different.
So, if you like to move the same planet again you will need to obtain its' new ID.


This tool was designed to be used in 2400, but should also work in any year.
It was not extensively tested, so please consider backing up your files before move.

Please let me know of any issues you found.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Tue, 30 July 2013 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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XAPBob wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 20:17
Would that mean you could effectively define fixed wormholes for the duration of a game?

Short answer is no.
Long answer is: I can add a pair of the wormholes with the required stability and I can move wormhole to any location. But as far as I aware of the game mechanics (please correct me if I'm wrong) it will not be there for the duration of the game. With some probability it can once become unstable and can change it's location.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Tue, 30 July 2013 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Fri, 26 July 2013 21:55
nmid, why would you like to move wormholes? They are unstable beasts. Smile
This tool cannot move wormholes, but it can be dome pretty easily.
Do you think this would be useful?



If we can adjust both the wormhole locations + stability, I can think of quite a few game non IT scenarios that can use it ! Smile



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Tue, 30 July 2013 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nmid

 
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Quote:

This tool was designed to be used in 2400, but should also work in any year.


That's awesome. Might require a rehosting of turn files every 30 odd years... but still works for a Deep Space Nine Scenario in a Huge Universe with a 1/21 planet hab Very Happy

XyliGUN wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 22:45
XAPBob wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 20:17
Would that mean you could effectively define fixed wormholes for the duration of a game?

Short answer is no.
Long answer is: I can add a pair of the wormholes with the required stability and I can move wormhole to any location. But as far as I aware of the game mechanics (please correct me if I'm wrong) it will not be there for the duration of the game. With some probability it can once become unstable and can change it's location.


That works... If only we could perma fix the stability of the WH Razz



I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XAPBob is currently offline XAPBob

 
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If we can edit it in any year then we can - just not on SAH...

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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This is awesome. It works on remapped universes without any problems so far. I am testing with UC now. I will test it with stretch as soon as DD5 is posted to the game page. Excellent work XyliGUN! I love the interface; I can push up and edit just the last 3 components *and* keep a record of what I have done. I have moved ~60 planets so far, and it is super easy to use. Not Worthy

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 13:10
OK, here is a promised tool.

How to:

  • first you have to create a game using Stars! with required universe size, planets density and all other settings as usual
  • then once you have xy, hst & m files (they all should be located in one folder) you can start moving planets
  • open a turn as usual, select a planet you would like to move and note a planet ID as it shown below the map (like "ID #67")
  • note a map coordinates you would like to move this planet to (like "X: 1052, Y: 1057") and ensure there is no another planet at the same location
  • type StarsHostTool <YourPathGoesHere>\<YourGameNameGoesHere>.xy /move 67 1052 1057
  • tool will then update your xy, hst & m files to move specified planet to the new location.

Remarks:
After the move planet name and all of its' content should be the same, but planet ID will be different.
So, if you like to move the same planet again you will need to obtain its' new ID.


This tool was designed to be used in 2400, but should also work in any year.
It was not extensively tested, so please consider backing up your files before move.

Please let me know of any issues you found.


Please add a switch that would output a simple parsable list of all planet names and IDs and their current coordinates in a game. I could use that to add Planet Move capability to Host Utility on Stars! AutoHost.



Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHost

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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Ron wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 18:08
Please add a switch that would output a simple parsable list of all planet names and IDs and their current coordinates in a game. I could use that to add Planet Move capability to Host Utility on Stars! AutoHost.

Hmmm. No problem I'll do, but do you think it would be useful for the game host to move planets after initial setup was done and game uploaded to the SAH? Confused



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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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Well, this will make it much easier to set up a game,

Now if you can just add a switch to output each planet with it's value after being terraformed using Terraform +-11 for each player, like

Name P1 P2 etc....
LGM 2 100 -15
Excel 30 60

If we're going to make it easy, let's make it easy...

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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LittleEddie wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 19:35
Well, this will make it much easier to set up a game,

Now if you can just add a switch to output each planet with it's value after being terraformed using Terraform +-11 for each player, like

Name P1 P2 etc....
LGM 2 100 -15
Excel 30 60

If we're going to make it easy, let's make it easy...

Are you talking about server side tool (i.e. to be able to export data of all of the planets and to be used by host), or client side (to be able to export only planets already penscanned by player)? Any hint on its' usage?
Btw, I was under impression that Stars can export the same data?



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 12:15
Are you talking about server side tool (i.e. to be able to export data of all of the planets and to be used by host), or client side (to be able to export only planets already penscanned by player)? Any hint on its' usage?
Btw, I was under impression that Stars can export the same data?


For use just by the host in setting up the game, currently they have to copy the game and explore the universe and then load that planet data into a spreadsheet that figures out the habs for each planet for each player. This would save having to make some scouts and send them around the game for 20 or so turns to get the habs.

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
XyliGUN is currently offline XyliGUN

 
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I've received several questions regarding this tool.

Q: Can it move any planet to any location?
A: The answer is yes. It can move any planet (including HW) to any location within universe bounds.

Q: Can it move planet from the top left corner to the bottom right.
A: Yes it can.

Q: Does the possibility to move to some locations depends of the specific planed ID.
A: No. You can move planed with any Id to any location.

Q: Does it change planet Id?
A: In general yes, but sometimes, depending of the specific move, it can be the same after the move.



"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something."
Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough For Love

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LittleEddie is currently offline LittleEddie

 
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And THANK YOU,

This is a great tool

Little Eddie

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Wed, 31 July 2013 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 10:35
Ron wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 18:08
Please add a switch that would output a simple parsable list of all planet names and IDs and their current coordinates in a game. I could use that to add Planet Move capability to Host Utility on Stars! AutoHost.

Hmmm. No problem I'll do, but do you think it would be useful for the game host to move planets after initial setup was done and game uploaded to the SAH? Confused

Good point, probably not. But eventually, I'd like a way for hosts to use a web interface to upload .r files, set game conditions, and create the game directly on SAH. Then the ability for the game host to see the galaxy map and where homeworlds are, and move planets around would be nice.



Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHost

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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Thu, 01 August 2013 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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XyliGUN wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 19:10
ensure there is no another planet at the same location

Does Stars! have some check for "minimum distance" between worlds, or will it happily run with "too close" situations? Sherlock



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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Thu, 01 August 2013 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ron wrote on Wed, 31 July 2013 16:08
Please add a switch that would output a simple parsable list of all planet names and IDs and their current coordinates in a game. I could use that to add Planet Move capability to Host Utility on Stars! AutoHost.

Doesn't Stars! already do that with its "dump Universe map" option?



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Re: Planet mover (remapping tool) Thu, 01 August 2013 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ron wrote on Thu, 01 August 2013 04:51
I'd like a way for hosts to use a web interface to upload .r files, set game conditions, and create the game directly on SAH. Then the ability for the game host to see the galaxy map and where homeworlds are, and move planets around would be nice.

Graphical map display inside a browser isn't hard. My own tools already do it, and there's ways to include "picking" and "dragging" of things. I guess the end result would be a "script" file for the PlanetMover to execute. Teleport

Another of my tools is the "Terraforming Report", so useful for Teams and Alliances, which should probably use a GUI too, and only needs "current" hab values to work. This tool could effectively perform a "whole universe pre-scan" for all races, provided it got a listing of "initial" planet values to digest. Pirate



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