| -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Wed, 26 September 2012 03:06  |
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 magic9mushroom |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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A -f (or other >20%) HE would seem to be much stronger in this situation, due to not starting over 25%, and thus having a few turns to scout before having to start moving pop.
My question is: how much stronger? Is it in the realm of "OMGWTFBBQHAX", or merely a nice thing to have? Or are there things about the setup which hurt fast-growing HE that I've missed?
Discuss.
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Thu, 27 September 2012 02:50  |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 26 September 2012 19:06A -f (or other >20%) HE would seem to be much stronger in this situation, due to not starting over 25%, and thus having a few turns to scout before having to start moving pop.
My question is: how much stronger? Is it in the realm of "OMGWTFBBQHAX", or merely a nice thing to have? Or are there things about the setup which hurt fast-growing HE that I've missed?
Discuss.
Yes. Yes it is very "OMGWTFBBQHAX".
The trouble is the research time from 0 con to 3 con for cargo pods to put on a minicol, or med freighters - even with con cheap you go over 25% before you've built transport. I tried it once with a variation of CC's HE - 15%(30%), 2 immune, 1 in 4 hab - in a tiny, packed (and slow tech).
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Fri, 28 September 2012 08:44 |
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| magic9mushroom |
| Commander |
Messages: 1361
Registered: May 2008 | |
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gible wrote on Thu, 27 September 2012 16:50magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 26 September 2012 19:06A -f (or other >20%) HE would seem to be much stronger in this situation, due to not starting over 25%, and thus having a few turns to scout before having to start moving pop.
My question is: how much stronger? Is it in the realm of "OMGWTFBBQHAX", or merely a nice thing to have? Or are there things about the setup which hurt fast-growing HE that I've missed?
Discuss.
Yes. Yes it is very "OMGWTFBBQHAX".
The trouble is the research time from 0 con to 3 con for cargo pods to put on a minicol, or med freighters - even with con cheap you go over 25% before you've built transport. I tried it once with a variation of CC's HE - 15%(30%), 2 immune, 1 in 4 hab - in a tiny, packed (and slow tech).
I said "without AccBBS", not "with Slow Tech". With no Slow Tech or start@3, con 3 is only 145 resources; I'm reasonably sure that's achievable before you hit 137.5k starting from 25k.
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Fri, 28 September 2012 09:57 |
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Hi,
no with kon cheap you still have to research it in 1 year and then build
them what is a nother year. And you start the game already with much more
then 25% Kap.
So it is a real big advantage for all HE with grow more then 12%(24%). Much more important
is the scouting bonus you have wis a non AccBBS.
Ccmaster
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Sat, 29 September 2012 02:58 |
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Actually, you shoud be safe letting your pop climb up to 250k (200k without OBRM) before the total growth drops under what it would be at 25% hold.
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Sat, 29 September 2012 07:10 |
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@ magic
yes with AccBBS off you could make it to con 3. But still the big advantage would be the better scouting. With races like 30% grow you need lots of scouts to have planets to settle ready.
@ Coyote
The problem is that you then half your grow with this pop. If you can manage to bring them to a other planet you have 2 Planets with 25 % and the same grow ! So it is real ral importent with a -F HE to try to stay at 25% Kap if possible.
ccmaster
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| Re: -f HE in a non-AccBBS game? |
Sun, 30 September 2012 05:53 |
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| neilhoward | 
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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The answer to your question about how much stronger... depends on unspecified conditions. Density, number of ly to nearest player, diplomacy that will crush you for being too aggressive. The ultimate answer is that an HE can be exactly half as strong (all else equal) as any other (read all else equal) non-AR prt. Granted, it will take a lot longer for that TT SD to get to double your strength in the equivalent space, so speed is more the issue than strength. Speed can allow you to expand faster, gaining more space... but... -f... you have a short window...
An >20% MPGR HE can take the hit from letting pop on HW go beyond optimal early hold points better than any other -f race design (up to about 40% hw cap for early research). You can stuff pop and route it to outbound nodes if you have to. If it is a non-AccBbs game, I would strongly recommend hiding your PRT for a minimum of the first 14-16 years unless a large or huge and nearest player is >400ly away. Your potential speed once you are ready to get out of the box will make up for the difference (iff you are *really* quick off the mark).
You might try a testbed with 1x each expert Robotoid, Macinti and Cybertron in a distant packed small uni and force genned to 2420 (with alchemy auto queued and through 2419 spacing all pop grown after 2400). Try going to 2434 without building any prt specials (ie minicol), or use planet hopping even if it means pushing 1 in 12 ships to W10 so that you never have ships in deep space at the end of the turn. You should be able to exterminate at least one enemy within 25 years of your delayed start, *and* hit a decent res count by your 45th turn. If you can build 40 Arm BBs by your 60th turn... 
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