Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » New Game Announcements » Another beginner game
| Re: Another beginner game |
Mon, 29 October 2012 21:59   |
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| Eagle of Fire | 
 | Lt. Commander |
Messages: 809
Registered: December 2008
Location: GMT -5 | |
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Quote:What timezone are you in, may I ask? I'm in GMT +11 right now.
Considering I have it in my user bar to the left, it is hardly a secret. 
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Just got online after a bit of downtime... Curious as to how that would that affect the total time available to any one person.
Let's say the game gen every day at 18:00. I get back home from work at 17:00. This leave me only one hour to complete my turn and send it, assuming I can start working on it right away.
The obvious solution is to work on my turn after 18:00. Which I might do most of the time... But we all know that RL have a way to get in the way of gaming, so it might not be possible sometimes.
Now, let's say another player know he wants to attack me. There is an history of when I submit, so he knows I always submit around 17:45-17:50. If everybody submit at once the game will auto gen, so he tries as much as possible to bring the gen time around that time and since the gen time always move backward anyways (because nobody submit at the very last second every single turn) then it will slowly continue to do so. So, war erupts and double my MM time.
If gen time move too close to when I get back to work and I happen not to be able to complete my turn fast enough before going to bed, I'm boned. I'll either need to rush my turn or forget about it.
Does that answer your question?
[Updated on: Mon, 29 October 2012 22:06]
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Mon, 29 October 2012 22:34 |
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Eagle of Fire wrote on Tue, 30 October 2012 07:29Quote:What timezone are you in, may I ask? I'm in GMT +11 right now.
Considering I have it in my user bar to the left, it is hardly a secret.
Quote:
Just got online after a bit of downtime... Curious as to how that would that affect the total time available to any one person.
Let's say the game gen every day at 18:00. I get back home from work at 17:00. This leave me only one hour to complete my turn and send it, assuming I can start working on it right away.
The obvious solution is to work on my turn after 18:00. Which I might do most of the time... But we all know that RL have a way to get in the way of gaming, so it might not be possible sometimes.
Now, let's say another player know he wants to attack me. There is an history of when I submit, so he knows I always submit around 17:45-17:50. If everybody submit at once the game will auto gen, so he tries as much as possible to bring the gen time around that time and since the gen time always move backward anyways (because nobody submit at the very last second every single turn) then it will slowly continue to do so. So, war erupts and double my MM time.
If gen time move too close to when I get back to work and I happen not to be able to complete my turn fast enough before going to bed, I'm boned. I'll either need to rush my turn or forget about it.
Does that answer your question?
Well, two possible assumptions for your example. Static or dynamic gens.
If you have dynamic gens, irrespective of when he submits, you will get your full 24 hour cycle. Hosts actually make it 25/26 hours between gens, just to stop the time creeping factor you mentioned. The only thing that changes is instead of you playing at the end of the gen cycle, you might be possibly playing at the start or even the middle of it.
If you are talking static gens, you will still get your earlier turn to play. Even if he submits, trying to affect the time you get your turn, it won't matter.
Which leads to a small point I made, for early years... If you can sit on your turn before you leave for work, you could submit without any problem.
For later years, you wont be on a daily gen schedule.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Tue, 30 October 2012 08:11 |
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Gentlemen, Before the thread is closed I would like some clarification.
Surely you are flexable around here?
If the deadline falls on a bad timeline for someone's RL they should be granted any request to push the time elsewhere.
Eagle is obviously concerned because he has a tight/busy work schedule, understandable. Although I do think its a bit unlikely someone could delibrately push the time to a bad spot for him. Ive never seen such an instance happening in yrs of PBEW play elsewhere. With or without game logs.
Anyway, once the game gets in full swing what happens to players who need short extensions due to say work trips away and such? I have never played a PBEW game that didnt need at least some delays. I personally wont likely need delays but I wouldnt want be playing a game were players are constantly forced to skip turns due to RL issues.
Also, once you close this thread, where do we discuss any issues that may arise.
[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2012 08:12] by Moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Tue, 30 October 2012 08:21 |
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I should probably clarify that last statement.
I do not suggest anyone should be granted a delay anytime soon, since it is easy to quee up orders and play a turn for quite a while in this game. Delays now would just stall the game.
--------
But once things heat up a bit, borders meet, wars begin etc. If player 1 needs a day delay because he is away on buisness. What happens here?
[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2012 08:23] by Moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Tue, 30 October 2012 09:22 |
|
 sprocket |
 | Chief Warrant Officer 1 |
Messages: 138
Registered: November 2002
Location: Illinois US | |
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Crowe wrote on Tue, 30 October 2012 08:11Gentlemen, Before the thread is closed I would like some clarification.
Surely you are flexible around here?
If the deadline falls on a bad timeline for someone's RL they should be granted any request to push the time elsewhere.
Eagle is obviously concerned because he has a tight/busy work schedule, understandable. Although I do think its a bit unlikely someone could delibrately push the time to a bad spot for him. Ive never seen such an instance happening in yrs of PBEW play elsewhere. With or without game logs.
Anyway, once the game gets in full swing what happens to players who need short extensions due to say work trips away and such? I have never played a PBEW game that didnt need at least some delays. I personally wont likely need delays but I wouldnt want be playing a game were players are constantly forced to skip turns due to RL issues.
Also, once you close this thread, where do we discuss any issues that may arise.
I will see about a private forum set up and then I will close this thread.
If there are any issues about game schedule changes, illness, etc. please email me directly and I will try to be accomodating, not a problem.
When EoF or anyone else needs a slowdown it will be done, but I dont forsee that happening for a few weeks.
Dieter of sprocketsReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Tue, 30 October 2012 09:55 |
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Just to address Crowe's (and probably Eagle's as well) concerns about possible time-outs:
- the host is usually open to accomodate a time-out or two if the reason behind it is reason enough. Business trips, if short, qualify, other unexpected RL occurences qualify as well (provided you drop a note to the host early enough that the gen doesn't get you before the host throws the hold switch). I've been in a game where one player requested a stop due to death of his family member - no one even thought of vetoing his request. RL always comes before games.
EDIT: I see Sprocket said as much as I typed.
- when alliances are forged somewhere along the game, it is not unusual to let one ally play a turn or two for another one. I've been there in a few games: my allies stood in for me for a turn or two - and it worked out OK. Of course, you need to trust those who you ask for this kind of favour, and be ready to return it should they need it the other day.
- if you foresee a longer absence from play and you know it well beforehand, it should be possible to find another player willing to stand in for you... or even replace you completely if you don't plan to be back.
Usually, all we need is timely information about any situation that might stop the game, and the host will be able to handle it.
A game forum will appear usually together with the game being set up in the Minefield - Ron sets it all up. Players are requested not to bug him personally to do this - it's the host's responsibility to arrange the setup with Ron. We wouldn't want our venerable Admiral sink under the wave of PMs and e-mails from anxious players.
[Updated on: Tue, 30 October 2012 09:56] by Moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Fri, 02 November 2012 09:40 |
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| sprocket |
| Chief Warrant Officer 1 |
Messages: 138
Registered: November 2002
Location: Illinois US | |
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magic9mushroom wrote on Thu, 01 November 2012 22:16Oh, and I request a rules clarification: Is Warp 10.05 allowed?
If you can do it, there is no prohibition.
Admin, please close this thread. Game started and private forum operational.
Thank you
[Updated on: Fri, 02 November 2012 09:42]
Dieter of sprocketsReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Wed, 07 November 2012 06:46 |
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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 07 November 2012 10:26Not if you get a mean enough Host or in-game enemies are allowed to vote. 
I'm not really into letting other players vote about whether or not the game should be held, if one player asks for a RL-grounded hold. You cannot change that player's RL situation, so if you vote against - an in-game enemy or not - you only show your selfishness and arrogance towards that player. If a player requests a pause for RL reasons, this should be between him and the host. If the host does not approve of holding the game, he should help the player find a replacement, temporary or permanent (depending on how the player sees his chances to continue the game after his RL issue is solved).
IMHO players should be allowed to vote for changes in gen schedule, or a hold for solving in-game situations (bugs, perceived infractions or suspected cheats). Much of this can be done without stopping the game, so the vote is in order to see whether the players want more time devoted to a particular issue or not. RL usually stops the game for the affected player. I've been there a few times, so I know how I feel in such situation. If others don't want to wait till I get back or introduce a replacement, they probably didn't really want me in this game to begin with. Why should I care then? I go away, and they can carry on without me. Simple as that.
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Wed, 07 November 2012 09:37 |
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Very true...but a lot depends on the type of RL situation and how much time before gen is the hold asked for.
Unforeseen RL event that happens on gen day or one day before.... or say a family weekend you knew a month before but you still ask for a hold at the last moment.
Two ways of looking at it, I'm sure....but I'll still factor in that if you know you might need a hold, inform the host early on, instead of trying to submit till the last moment and then realising you are unable to and asking a hold at the last moment.
It's not fair for all the other players to see a game held just before it gens, especially for a reason that was very obviously not a last minute development.
I do agree that the hold request is between the player and the host and I won't mind a hold as missed turns do tend to mess up the game, but he has to be fair to everyone in the game.
[Updated on: Wed, 07 November 2012 09:38]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Wed, 07 November 2012 19:46 |
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m.a@stars wrote on Wed, 07 November 2012 22:56There's even more ways, to be sure: computer or harddisk breakdown, power outage, email mishap, flaky airport wifi, missed bus in the middle of nowhere, or just about anything that keeps the player from doing "the right thing" and instead needs a judgement call from the Host on whether to "fix" the problem after it is "too late" or not. 
Know thyself. Know thy Host too!
Hmmm, isn't that the players fault for leaving submitting till the last minute?
If he played to sub well before the scheduled gen, any such problem would be identified and the player could contact the host.
(simple email from cell net, alternate desktop, friend... ) The point is the host is given adequate notice.
If a problem persisted from the time the turn initially genned to the time it was to gen again, hmmmm, that would be a genuine cause.
There is a difference in the two examples.
One talks about players asking for a hold at the last moment for reasons that could have been easily managed by him, while the other is a player just not able to play for genuine real life reasons that persist for most of the gen window.
The ideal solution would have the host put the game on hold once and if it's a genuine reason, great... If not, then the player just misses the next time around.
Edit - It would be made easier if the host is informed of a possible cause for delay in advance... Travelling, incoming storm, etc....
[Updated on: Wed, 07 November 2012 19:49]
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Thu, 08 November 2012 05:41 |
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| m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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nmid wrote on Thu, 08 November 2012 01:46One talks about players asking for a hold at the last moment for reasons that could have been easily managed by him,
You mean, like a power outage that lasts 12+ hours? Or an Airport jam that keeps planes off air for 9 straight hours? Or a hurricane in New York? 
And yeah, of course everyone has friends or relatives that will let you use their network in the middle of the night, or while on national holidays, or while in a different country, or... 
The judgement call is whether the Host and competitors care about RL difficulties or not, and given the modern trend towards no caring, players with less-than-ideal RL situations need to deal with this kind of problem *well* in advance, like, before the game is even started. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme!  Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Thu, 08 November 2012 05:56 |
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 08 November 2012 16:11nmid wrote on Thu, 08 November 2012 01:46One talks about players asking for a hold at the last moment for reasons that could have been easily managed by him,
You mean, like a power outage that lasts 12+ hours? Or an Airport jam that keeps planes off air for 9 straight hours? Or a hurricane in New York?
And yeah, of course everyone has friends or relatives that will let you use their network in the middle of the night, or while on national holidays, or while in a different country, or...
The judgement call is whether the Host and competitors care about RL difficulties or not, and given the modern trend towards no caring, players with less-than-ideal RL situations need to deal with this kind of problem *well* in advance, like, before the game is even started.
nmid wrote on Thu, 08 November 2012 06:16
Hmmm, isn't that the players fault for leaving submitting till the last minute?
....snip....
Edit - It would be made easier if the host is informed of a possible cause for delay in advance... Travelling, incoming storm, etc....
Essentially, in the post 2440 stage of the game, the turns are anyway, down to two-three a week. That gives enough of a window to avoid the problems you mentioned in creating a missed turn event.
I should point out that we seem to be talking about different sides of two coins here though ..
In one of my current games, the host very nicely put the game on hold on account of the hurricane sandy to allow 4 stragglers to get their turns in.
The point is I'm talking about players planning things in.advance *where possible* and not be inconsiderate to leave asking for a hold at the last moment, while you are talking about inconsiderate hosts..
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Another beginner game |
Thu, 08 November 2012 09:51 |
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| Ron |
| Commander
Forum Administrator
Stars! AutoHost Administrator |
Messages: 1231
Registered: October 2002
Location: Collegedale, TN | |
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Topic locked at host request.
Ron Miller
Stars! AutoHostReport message to a moderator
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