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Star Trek captains Thu, 09 August 2012 13:46 Go to next message
neilhoward

 
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scottrick49 wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 06:14
Bystander wrote on Wed, 06 May 2009 22:30
When we talk about chaff sweeping, it like saying: "O.K. Kirk, Picardi, Janeway, Archer and 98% of you other captains


Please, never ever put Janeway in the same group as Kirk and Picard again.


Please, never ever put Kirk in the same group as Picard and Janeway again. Kirk was a bumbling fool, walking diplomatic disaster, fat whiny failure, weak willed, intellectually lazy, troubled minded, character lacking, specimen of low moral fibre and cowardice. The other two are responsible, disciplined, professional, embodiments of awesomeness.

Edit: I toned down my rhetoric so as to be less decisive and confrontational.


[Updated on: Thu, 09 August 2012 14:48]

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Re: Late game minesweeper Thu, 09 August 2012 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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neilhoward wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 10:46

Please, never ever put Kirk in the same group as Picard and Janeway again. Kirk was a bumbling fool, walking diplomatic disaster, fat whiny failure, weak willed, intellectually lazy, troubled minded, character lacking, specimen of low moral fibre and cowardice. The other two are responsible, disciplined, professional, embodiments of awesomeness.

Edit: I toned down my rhetoric so as to be less decisive and confrontational.


Hahaha....I so agree with you, I always wanted Spock to abandon Kirk on one of is away missions and run the Enterprise himself.

Also, I'll reprise my astonishment that you have actual sentient beings on your warships! Mine are all run by AI, to be sure if actual <race name here> crews were running the ships they would behave very differently in battle. However the <race name here> cannot abide the stress of combat maneuvering and so all warships are run by AIs attempting to implement pre-programmed "Battle Orders". The only <race name here> I ever put into space are in inertially compensated cryo-sleep chambers in cargo holds.


[Updated on: Thu, 09 August 2012 15:34]

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Re: Star Trek captains Thu, 09 August 2012 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ron is currently offline Ron

 
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Interesting, you were quoting a post from 2009 Cool

Interesting opinions... Kirk could be professional, but of the 3, he certainly was less straight-laced, was better at bending the rules. He also, IMO, seemed to know how to have fun better than the others. Diplomatically, he had guile and knew how to bluff and when to be tough.



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Re: Star Trek captains Fri, 10 August 2012 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Ron wrote on Fri, 10 August 2012 04:39
Kirk could be professional, but of the 3, he certainly was less straight-laced, was better at bending the rules. He also, IMO, seemed to know how to have fun better than the others.

It was a different Trek, no doubt, without so many freaking holosuites and timetravel. Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Star Trek captains Fri, 10 August 2012 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
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Also...Kirk wasn't fat until he became an Admiral.

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Re: Late game minesweeper Fri, 10 August 2012 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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vonKreedon wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 12:34


Also, I'll reprise my astonishment that you have actual sentient beings on your warships! Mine are all run by AI, to be sure if actual <race name here> crews were running the ships they would behave very differently in battle. However the <race name here> cannot abide the stress of combat maneuvering and so all warships are run by AIs attempting to implement pre-programmed "Battle Orders". The only <race name here> I ever put into space are in inertially compensated cryo-sleep chambers in cargo holds.




Interesting.
As a Divine Emperor, the thought of my chaff crews chanting patriotic slogans as they steer their ships into mines and missiles fills me with great pride for the Homeworld. My fleets always follow battle orders precisely, because to do otherwise out of cowardice or incompetence will result in the crews being executed and their families assigned to labor camps on redworld colonies. Besides that, battle computers cost too much Germanium that could be used to build gigantic statues of me instead.

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Re: Star Trek captains Fri, 10 August 2012 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Ho ho, a Startrek discussion!

neilhoward wrote on Thu, 09 August 2012 19:46
Please, never ever put Kirk in the same group as Picard and Janeway again. Kirk was a bumbling fool, walking diplomatic disaster, fat whiny failure, weak willed, intellectually lazy, troubled minded, character lacking, specimen of low moral fibre and cowardice. The other two are responsible, disciplined, professional, embodiments of awesomeness.


What you say about Kirk is certainly true. Probably the price Startrek had to pay to get produced and shown. At that time the prodcuing companies thought Western the big thing and that viewers expected more action and fistfights: a role filled with Kirk then.

Nevertheless as simple and archaic as Kirk's Startrek appears, I nevertheless found it the most socially critical and political controverse of all Startrek generations, especially when judged in context of the time back then: mainly I refer to cold war and racial segregation. The crew was from all major powers and anti-racism or rather the complete folly of it was always a leading theme.

And while the "american way" was always Kirk's sure intuitive ONLY way to go in all the universe, it was always made sure that the Doc could criticize Kirk's "solution" on a liberal anti-war/anti-violence base while Spook was "allowed" to mention that other ways than the american might have a justification, too. While women have no leading roles on the Enterprise and usually serve only as falling in love with Kirk, there are women on board as equal crewmembers (not so in the real world at that time in most countries).

Compared to this all other following generations, when again judged in the time of their making, fall behind IMHO.

Picard had a new and really great way of cooperative leading: "Make it so". But in political progressive or controversial terms it was rather a disappointment. For the role of women it was a rollback. And humour wasn't existing, instead we have Data and our all beloved Wes
...

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Re: Star Trek captains Fri, 10 August 2012 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
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Kirk was a great cowboy. 35 seems ridiculously young for a captain. I understand the studio nixed Roddenberry's first choice (Lloyd Bridges) for being too old. It would make sense that studio meddling would want the show to be more like Bonanza(a hot ticket for NBC).

Kirk was much more responsible in the animated series (and unlike TOS, that show won an Emmy).

Who likes Wesley Crusher? I can't stand Ewoks.

All six series seem more like morality play than science fiction. TOS went furthest of the bunch in pushing contemporary norms, but Picard's role was some kind of embodiment of the mode, almost leaning on the fourth wall imo.

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Re: Star Trek captains Sun, 12 August 2012 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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neilhoward wrote on Sat, 11 August 2012 00:54
Who likes Wesley Crusher?


I was so sure that the answere is "nobody" that I thought the irony was self-explanatory.

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Re: Star Trek captains Mon, 13 August 2012 04:21 Go to previous message
neilhoward

 
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Shatner should have been cast as a Nietzschean captain (Vikings in space?). He would have been awesome.

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