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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Wed, 19 September 2012 14:01   |
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| neilhoward | 
 | Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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Many people asked why start in 2401 with no starting ships.
This is standard practice for most remapped games.
This is because the HW were moved. When they are moved around they visually appear to be in the new spot but not all functions of the game are updated until a turn is generated. This means that the starting ships are scanning space away from the orbit of their moved home world. It also means that during 2400, dumping the universe definition to a text file will report the original star locations. Both of these can give away the locations of your home worlds, and otherwise impart an unfair advantage to some players ala knowledge of a green world 143ly from home or that wormhole that is only 77ly away.
Before anyone whinges that somebody else could have done it better, they are not here and they didn't volunteer to help you. XyliGUN has been mia for months, and never published the tool previously mentioned.
I will ask Ron for a game forum once he has posted the game.
Again, I am sorry that it took me so long to get this done. I will try to find time this weekend to put together a tutorial on the process. The biggest hurdle was that UC (and all other functional programs I know of) are restricted in moving planets vertically. This is because the planet IDs are arranged longitudinally. While this is not much of an issue for many remapping projects, it does create a bit of a headache when in combination with minimum and maximum distance requirements. I found dozens of seeds which allowed for the desired relative distances, but they either resulted in the the formation being off-centre (e.g. giving 2 or 3 teams 40% more stars within 243ly) or had wildly uneven distribution of stars (such that local volumes had densities radically different from the universe total). There are other tools which do not have the same constraints, but in their current stage of development (essentially defunct), they have game destroying bugs (i.e. not being able to depopulate some planets with bombing or packets).
[Updated on: Wed, 19 September 2012 14:53] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Wed, 19 September 2012 17:28 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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You are correct that I should have explicitly stated the need to delete ship designs and gen the first turn. I am afraid that I took for granted that it has been SOP in the remapped games in which I have participated. Those players that might feel pinched, would likely sigh with relief if they knew fully the difference this made.
Some may be interested to know that one seed met all desired criteria, except HW mineral concentrations were 30% across the board with little more than 100kt surface minerals of each kind. In combination with the loss of starting ships, I thought this might be a little too painful and so set it aside. Luckily I found this better seed about six hours later, almost at the point of using the mineral poor universe rather than delay further. Bleh.
I ran this game through Stars Editor with the Observer mod and did a bit of scanning to be sure there was not an overwhelming difference in local mineral availability. No changes were made on this account. A few non-HW planets were moved slightly to balance local densities and otherwise to maintain a minimum distance. My aim was less an attempt to make everything "fair", so much as to ensure nobody would be crippled out of the gate.
Edit: Please don't think I am whinging about the amount of work. I loved it. I got to see at least a thousand universes! I am just sorry that when I volunteered, my forecast showed much more free time than would actually be available (in addition to underestimating the amount of time required). Thanks for letting me help.
[Updated on: Wed, 19 September 2012 17:35] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Wed, 19 September 2012 20:42 |
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Thanks for setting it up for up Neil.
The gmail account would be a good idea.
neilhoward wrote on Wed, 19 September 2012 09:54
If you want, I will create a one-off gmail account for autohost to CC the turn files in case there are any disputes down the line.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Thu, 20 September 2012 19:23 |
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 Asmodai |
 | Officer Cadet 1st Year |
Messages: 214
Registered: February 2012 | |
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Why not give Neil chance to turn back starting ships? Delay one day or two makes no difference - also, this game was sheduled m/t/w/th/f - so even if we start now, we play only one turn, and we will get 2 days break - i think, that we should give Neil that few days try. If he fail to restore that ships, we can still play using that modified files that we received already. But if he restore that ships, we could have confirmed and approved method how to do that in future to avoid unneccesary delays. It is definitely worth few days delay.
[Updated on: Thu, 20 September 2012 19:24] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Thu, 20 September 2012 19:34 |
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| rolfverberg |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 103
Registered: March 2006
Location: Ithaca, NY, USA | |
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I'm good either way. I agree that with the weekend coming up a few days won't matter much.
Cheers, Rolf.
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Thu, 20 September 2012 21:41 |
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I'll vote yes to a 2nd try.
Btw, why mineral alchemy?
I can understand not queing up factories as some races might be -f, but why not queue up mines instead?
Just a matter of 100-200 odd resources, but if we are going for a 2nd start, it is something to consider.
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Thu, 20 September 2012 23:08 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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nmid wrote on Thu, 20 September 2012 18:41I'll vote yes to a 2nd try.
Btw, why mineral alchemy?
I can understand not queing up factories as some races might be -f, but why not queue up mines instead?
Just a matter of 100-200 odd resources, but if we are going for a 2nd start, it is something to consider.
Alchemy is not to do something equally *productive*, but to do something equally *unproductive*. Not all folks build mines either, though I don't know about this game. I got the idea from xdude, AlexTheGreat, and some others that ran remapped games. Even with the MA lrt, alchemy is pretty unproductive, and has the least differential impact compared with other queue scripts. Much better than leaving everyone to study Energy, IMO. 
The primary thing in my mind, is not wanting to cripple anyone at the start. But I believe it was Chekhov who wrote (and I paraphrase) "the greatest equality is not attained through handicapping, but ensuring universal discomfort". This is not sadistic, I assure you, merely Russian.
I think my idea about deleting starting ship designs might have arisen from additional theme components of the remapped games I have played.
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Fri, 21 September 2012 23:27 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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I will notify everyone when the game files are updated on SAH.
Edit: Once all turns are in and everyone has had the chance to add a race file PW, I will take the game off hold and ask Ron to switch ManicLurch to host. Schedule is currently set to 500 GMT T/W/TH/F/S. Before taking the game off hold, I will remove the first gen if <24 hours remaining. I will check to see if the turns are in ~every 8 hours from now. If you add a race file PW and notify me, I will add it to the care package for any potential 3rd party that might need to review files. Good Luck.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2012 05:06] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Mon, 24 September 2012 09:07 |
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Hopefully it should start off soon.. The weekend and Monday should be ample time for everyone to get their hands on their new files and submit.. Hopefully**..
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Dynamic Duos 4 |
Mon, 24 September 2012 19:45 |
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| neilhoward |
| Commander |
Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023 | |
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"About 29h 16m until next scheduled gen"
Edit: Added auto mail turn files
[Updated on: Mon, 24 September 2012 19:51] Report message to a moderator
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It only took me more than twice as long as Les spent on number three (but he probably didn't make as many mistakes). 
Allies are within 162ly, and enemies are at least 300ly away.
. It can messes someones perfect start.
