| Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Sat, 30 June 2012 12:55  |
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 ManicLurch |
 | Lt. Junior Grade |
Messages: 462
Registered: May 2009 | |
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With Stone Age Slaughter 6 ending, some of us want to start another SAS game. SAS7 will have mostly the same rules, with a few modifications. The most notable modification is a banning of all torps. Missiles will be allowed, though SAS6 ended before anyone had missile tech.
Here are the official rules:
Players: 8 players
Universe: Small, normal, distant, SLOW TECH, ACC BBS, No random events.
Victory: 100% consensus vote from remaining players, alliance win possible (but limited to two).
Schedule: M-T-W-T-F until at least turn 30. Move to M-W-F when at least two players have requested a slowdown.
Race Limitations: ALL races MUST take weapons expensive and the Bleeding Edge Tech LRT. Joat cannot take NAS. Races will be verified by the third party prior to start. Other race restrictions:
HE banned
CA, No OAs or retro bombs. Cannot take TT, 50 points leftover to defenses.
Joat cannot take NAS, 25 points leftover to defenses
IT - 25 points leftover to defenses
WM - 50 points leftover to defenses
Special Rules: NO TECH TRADING ALLOWED. No scrapping, no pop dropping allies for tech gain, no wolf-lamb. You may not scrap MT ships for tech gain or share MT parts through scrapping. You may trade ships to other players, but if scrapping those ships would produce tech gains, they may never be scrapped (design may be deleted, however). Sending an "observer" ship to watch a battle in hopes of gaining tech is allowed, as long as the battle is between enemies.
No torps of any kind allowed on any ship or starbase. Minimum penalties will be the deletion of ships. If this ships caused a battle outcome to be different, or if it was deemed intentional then a banning of turns will be the punishment.
Gaining tech through legitimate battle with enemies (in space or through invasion) is allowed and encouraged, however.
NO PRE-GAME ALLIANCES ALLOWED. This ruins the game for everyone.
Cheats allowed: Healing after gating, chaff, split-fleet dodge. All other cheats forbidden (cheap starbases, etc).
I am open to modification of the penalties for IT, WM and JOAT races if someone has a good argument.
Note, host is playing in this game. Players so far:
Host, ManicLurch
rolfverberg
Orange
Magister Ludi
That leaves room for 4 more. I am also looking for a 3rd party to check races.
Thanks,
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34  |
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| ManicLurch wrote on Sat, 30 June 2012 18:55 |
Special Rules: No torps of any kind allowed on any ship or starbase.
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Usually I don't mingle into the rules of games I won't play in. But after having played in 3 sas games, won 2, I feel quite attached to the sas-series. Since I was playing in the last sas-game (on the receiving side of the min dam bug), I know how difficult this is for sas.
Nevertheless I would strongly advice NOT to ban torps.
The reason: it unbalances Stars.
The best thing about Stars is that there is not THE game style nor THE warship-design. There is a counter for everything.
This is destroyed when banning torps. Most of you are experienced players, so I guess it is not really a strat-spoiler when I say what will happen with banend torps in a sas-environment: frigates with yakis will rule. There is no counter to it except range-3-frigates much later on.
This sounds a bit boring, doesn't it?
Compare this with our last sas-game: the complexity of battles due to the min dam bug, the greater importance of speed and armour, new ways to use chaff, a multitude of ship designs to make use of the min dam bug, to circumvent it, to chaff it, decent warship designs etc. Agreed, the min dam bug is a pain in the ass but better than forcing everybody to use one overwhelmingly strong design, I think.
[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 09:35] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Mon, 02 July 2012 10:40 |
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| LaserBeard |
 | Crewman 1st Class |
Messages: 27
Registered: April 2012
Location: Canada | |
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Yeah, I was a bit perplexed by this rule..
[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2012 10:42] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 03:44 |
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| iztok |
 | Commander |
Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| Quote: |
I am not quite sure what you mean by this,
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Rule: "There shall not be a single torpedo in a slot on ANY hull".
Consequence:
- there will always at least two torps in any slot.
- DDs, PVTs and Scouts can not mount torpedos.
- MetaMorph can not mount torpedo in "frontal" 1x general slot.
- MiniMorph can not mount torpedos in those 3 * 1x general slots.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 03:49] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 05:28 |
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| iztok wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 09:44 |
Hi!
| Quote: |
I am not quite sure what you mean by this,
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Rule: "There shall not be a single torpedo in a slot on ANY hull".
Consequence:
- there will always at least two torps in any slot.
- DDs, PVTs and Scouts can not mount torpedos.
- MetaMorph can not mount torpedo in "frontal" 1x general slot.
- MiniMorph can not mount torpedos in those 3 * 1x general slots.
BR, Iztok
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You have surely read the announcement before posting:
| ManicLurch wrote on Sat, 30 June 2012 18:55 |
No torps of any kind allowed on any ship or starbase.
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So I think your quotation and interpretation of the "single torpedo in a slot" is rather a questionable witty comment, isn't it?
Edit:
Mmmh, or is it a real suggestion?
But it wouldn't solve the min dam problem at all. It doesn't really matter wether you invest 2 or 1 beta-torp to target a stack of 200 FFs to inflict 200 damage.
[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 05:35] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 08:09 |
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| iztok |
| Commander |
Messages: 1202
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe | |
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Hi!
| Iztok wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 09:44 |
- DDs, PVTs and Scouts can not mount torpedos.
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| ManicLurch wrote on Tue, 03 July 2012 19:52 |
DD with Alpha or Beta torps, in idividual fleets instead of stacked is the main problem for the min damage bug. The single slot ships are the primary problem.
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| Altruist wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 11:35 |
But it wouldn't solve the min dam problem at all.
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I tried to suggest a solution to min-damage problem. I's not perfect, but it "postpons" the problem unil CRs and Rougues with significantly more armor appear on the battlefield.
I leave this issue to you two then to resolve.
BR, Iztok
[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 08:16] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 11:20 |
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| Orange |
 | Officer Cadet 1st Year |
Messages: 215
Registered: November 2005
Location: TO, ONT, CA | |
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| ManicLurch wrote on Sat, 30 June 2012 12:55 |
HE banned
CA, No OAs or retro bombs. Cannot take TT, 50 points leftover to defenses.
Joat cannot take NAS, 25 points leftover to defenses
IT - 25 points leftover to defenses
WM - 50 points leftover to defenses
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50 point penalty for WM? perhaps 25 points might be better - it is a fun race and weak pass turn 50 as its speed advantage goes away.
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 11:41 |
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| Orange |
| Officer Cadet 1st Year |
Messages: 215
Registered: November 2005
Location: TO, ONT, CA | |
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| Altruist wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34 |
Usually I don't mingle into the rules of games I won't play in. But after having played in 3 sas games, won 2, I feel quite attached to the sas-series. Since I was playing in the last sas-game (on the receiving side of the min dam bug), I know how difficult this is for sas.
Nevertheless I would strongly advice NOT to ban torps.
The reason: it unbalances Stars.
The best thing about Stars is that there is not THE game style nor THE warship-design. There is a counter for everything.
This is destroyed when banning torps. Most of you are experienced players, so I guess it is not really a strat-spoiler when I say what will happen with banend torps in a sas-environment: frigates with yakis will rule. There is no counter to it except range-3-frigates much later on.
This sounds a bit boring, doesn't it?
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Allowing beta also means that FF hulls are no good anymore and that also unbalances Stars. Yak FF ruling over DDs (beta or Yak) is what should be. Beta DDs (in single stacks) have an edge but Yak/X-ray FFs should win anyway - most of the dmg is from the min dmg bug and not the torp itself (see the numbers from http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=507 4&start=0&rid=824&S=3aa5a476682839a51bd8417a4cb5 496f ). It is only the min dmg bug that allows beta torps to be effective against FFs or DDs. I think banning Alpha and Beta torps puts Stars closest to the original intentions of the designers.
Only WM FFs have a chance with its high speed, all other races would have their early FFs destroyed by a torp Starbase no matter the FF stack size. The only reason this min dmg bug has not been issue in regular games is that this alpha/beta torp phase passes so quickly.
| Altruist wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:34 |
Compare this with our last sas-game: the complexity of battles due to the min dam bug, the greater importance of speed and armour, new ways to use chaff, a multitude of ship designs to make use of the min dam bug, to circumvent it, to chaff it, decent warship designs etc. Agreed, the min dam bug is a pain in the ass but better than forcing everybody to use one overwhelmingly strong design, I think.
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As noted, beta DDs even in single stacks are not counters to FFs anyway if it were not for the min dmg bug.
Allowing min dmg bug may make the stars game more interesting as it new, but it is a different game (no FF hull for most races).
[Updated on: Wed, 04 July 2012 11:44] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 04 July 2012 18:47 |
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To get sas7 going, what about:
1) Gathering the players
2) Letting them vote (and only the players)
Both options, banning torps or allowing the min dam bug are ways to go.
So only the interested players decide and can still adapt their PRT and strat choices. And deciding on a way before the game starts is much better than realizing the problem only midway as we did in the last game.
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| Re: Stone Age Slaughter 7 |
Wed, 11 July 2012 22:34 |
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jennyhotchic wrote on Thu, 12 July 2012 10:24I would like to join.
oh come on.....
I know my minefields.. but I'm a chaff sweeper.
I used to curse when I got stuck in traffic... till I realised I AM traffic.Report message to a moderator
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