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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 28 November 2010 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strategic is currently offline Strategic

 
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I knew next to nothing about .Net and nothing about C# before picking this project up. If you know C, C++ or java the learning curve is more in finding your way around the project than picking up the language syntax. Beginners are welcome!

You should take a look at the developer's primer: https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/stars-nova/index.php? title=Developer_Primer


Thanks, I'm sure I could learn the language relatively easily. However, I've never been keen on working with a language that is essentially designed for Windows-only. There is Mono of course but that's nothing more than a third-party implementation designed by a third-party company and is not completely up to date on .NET releases. That's why I program in Java and Python these days. However, I guess learning something about .NET could help me in the industry.

I currently have another project underway at the moment, when I'm done with the first release of that, I'll take a look at yours and see what I can do to help.

Quote:

The sheer amount of time it takes to run a full game of Stars! probably has more to do with the shrinking player base than any other factor, including its limited shiny. Rolling Eyes

Why aspiring Rulers of the Universe would consider excessive spending more than a single afternoon to conquer a big galaxy full of challenging aliens is beyond me. Shocked

Yet another parallel between Stars! and Chess.


Does it really take that long? I only used to spend an hour a day (assuming 24 hour hosting) on my turns. The games I personally hosted normally switched to 48 hour hosts after about 2440 so it was actually even less than that Smile



Strategic

Past host of Walking on Eggs (2000), Walking on Shattered Eggs (2001), Dangerous Frontier (2001), Undisputed Power (2001), A Matter of Honour (2002) and Conflicted Empires (2002)

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 28 November 2010 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Strategic wrote on Sun, 28 November 2010 10:43



Does it really take that long? I only used to spend an hour a day (assuming 24 hour hosting) on my turns. The games I personally hosted normally switched to 48 hour hosts after about 2440 so it was actually even less than that Smile



That's actually the standard - it depends, though, as some games with right-minded and open-scheduled people can do multiple turns per day which was what he was referring to. Blitz games are the extreme of this - the whole game is meant for a single day - but they're pretty uncommon lately (due to lack of unbusy players that'd be interested).


[Updated on: Sun, 28 November 2010 15:33]

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 28 November 2010 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chazarus is currently offline Chazarus

 
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Strategic wrote on Sun, 28 November 2010 18:43



There is Mono of course but that's nothing more than a third-party implementation designed by a third-party company and is not completely up to date on .NET releases.


On a Mono / .Net on linux note - has anyone tried the Stars! nova client on Linux with Wine + official .Net framework instead of using Mono?

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Wed, 01 December 2010 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Strategic wrote on Sun, 28 November 2010 19:43

Does it really take that long? I only used to spend an hour a day

Yeah, for *every* turn. Times 100+ turns, stretched across half or a whole year, is more than most gamers will devote, when offered alternatives like WoW, Civ4, Crysis, GTA... Confused

What we need is to persuade the EveOnline players to spend with Stars! their long journeys across the void of space... Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 05 December 2010 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strategic is currently offline Strategic

 
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Quote:

On a Mono / .Net on linux note - has anyone tried the Stars! nova client on Linux with Wine + official .Net framework instead of using Mono?


No, I was thinking of trying it, but since Daniel and the team want to support Mac and Linux too, then I figured we should probably stick with the official OS bases. I'm grateful they are going for multi-platform to be honest.

I've been using Stars! under Wine for years, but on the current version I'm using, it has a bug that hasn't appeared in any of the previous versions Smile This is a common theme unfortunately, Wine support does vary quite a lot between versions, even for older applications. For this reason, I always feel it's a better work-around than something to base your development on.



Strategic

Past host of Walking on Eggs (2000), Walking on Shattered Eggs (2001), Dangerous Frontier (2001), Undisputed Power (2001), A Matter of Honour (2002) and Conflicted Empires (2002)

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Fri, 14 January 2011 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Celebrinbor1 is currently offline Celebrinbor1

 
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I think that this is a GREAT idea.
The 3 things that I think STARS! really needs include:
1. compatibly with windows7x64.
2. increased beginner friendliness. The learning curve on the original game was too steep.
3. possibly including a drawing layer that can be shared between players. This will make defining borders, communicating war plans, etc, easier.

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 16 January 2011 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Celebrinbor1 wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 04:46

3. possibly including a drawing layer that can be shared between players. This will make defining borders, communicating war plans, etc, easier.

Alternatively, allow for all relevant game data to be exported in a common enough format so other software, such as already existing drawing apps, can readily use it. Deal



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Sun, 16 January 2011 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 16 January 2011 10:25

Celebrinbor1 wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 04:46

3. possibly including a drawing layer that can be shared between players. This will make defining borders, communicating war plans, etc, easier.

Alternatively, allow for all relevant game data to be exported in a common enough format so other software, such as already existing drawing apps, can readily use it. Deal

That would be a good idea, but which format ?

BMP would be a poor choice, both because it is a bitmap and because of the file size.

SVG would require relatively recent drawing software.

PNG is also a bitmap, but that is a compressed format, so file size would not be a problem.

What else is there ? A lot of formats are proprietary, and the developers of Nova cannot pay license fees as Nova is supposed to be freeware.

I would lean towards SVG. I don't remember whether Microsoft's or Adobe's various drawing software can read it, but GIMP and Inkscape can, and they are cross-platform freeware programs, so that wouldn't force players to pull out their pocketbook in order to use the format Thumbsup 2

Recommending the use of GIMP or Inkscape as the drawing program for such map creation would also allow the proprietary format of the drawing program to be used for exchanging the maps, though that would have the disadvantage of forcing the players to install and learn a new drawing program, if they aren't using that program as a drawing program already.

Both GIMP and Inkscape can export as PNG, though, and PNG files can be viewed in any relatively recent web browser, so players who are not inclined to install a drawing program in order to create such maps would still be able to view them. PNG is a bitmap format, though, so there would have to be a compromise between resolution and file size.

SVG is beginning to be supported in current versions of web browsers, though, and that is a vector based format, so that could be a possible option for exporting such maps in the future. A vector based format would also have the advantage of allowing one file to show both the positions of fleets across an extended border conflict and the exact positions of enemy fleets located 1-2 ly from a planet in order to suppress minefields. It might also allow notes to be scaled according to zoom level, but I am not conversant enough with the PNG format to be certain whether SVG supports that.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Mon, 17 January 2011 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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tab- or comma-separated CSV, or perhaps even XML. Deal

At any rate, something that can be readily converted into the desired end-format by 3rd party tools. Teleport



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Mon, 17 January 2011 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
craebild is currently offline craebild

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 12:22

tab- or comma-separated CSV, or perhaps even XML. Deal

At any rate, something that can be readily converted into the desired end-format by 3rd party tools. Teleport

SVG is a XML based vector graphics format, so that should do the trick without the need for a third party tool.

CSV would require a third party tool, either in the form of a simplified drawing program, or a tool to convert it into a format that can be read by a drawing program, such as SVG.

SVG is a fairly recent format, so it is not all drawing programs that an import it yet, but I am sure more and more drawing programs will implement import and possibly export of SVG.

Inkscape's native format is based on SVG, with the addition of some element types that are not yet defined in the SVG standard. I am fairly certain the developers of Inkscape will change to standard SVG when the SVG standard has implemented those additional element types.

As there already exist a freeware drawing program that can import SVG and has the necessary functionality to create the intended maps, why use another format ?

Of course, Inkscape has a lot more functionality than needed for such maps, so some people might be intimidated by the large number of functions in Inkscape, so a simplified drawing program that only has the necessary functionality might be a good idea, but until such a simplified drawing program has been developed, exporting the data in SVG format seems like a good idea.

At any rate, SVG seems to fit your description, and there already exist a third party tool that can convert that into PNG after adding the desired borders and such, and PNG seems like a good suggestion for the desired end-format, as that can be viewed in most or all recent internet browsers, as well as a number of other programs, such as Windows built-in image viewer and IrfanView.



Med venlig hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christian Ræbild / Christian Raebild

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Re: Stars! Nova 0.4.1 Developmental Release Wed, 19 January 2011 06:28 Go to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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craebild wrote on Mon, 17 January 2011 19:21

As there already exist a freeware drawing program that can import SVG and has the necessary functionality to create the intended maps, why use another format ?

Simplicity, speed of development, portability, universality, control... Rolling Eyes


Quote:

At any rate, SVG seems to fit your description

Except the part where I forgot to add the common-sense requisite of keep it simple, sport Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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