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Home » Stars! 2.6/7 » Game stories » Glacier III...
Glacier III... Wed, 16 June 2010 23:50 Go to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
... went out with a fizzle!

Game rules: http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=msg&th=435 2&start=0&rid=326&S=b0956fd24f2613f3d20e82573e29 b97c

It had quite an interesting, if odd, end to a game, with the three main contenders keeping most of their populations in storage desperately trying to grow more colonists than the others to maximise their potential resources in the final year, 2560, when the game would be settled on score.

DANGER! LONG POST FOLLOWS! READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL / RISK OF BOREDOM.

Two images are attached, one showing the corner at the game's start, one showing my map at the game's end, so you can get an idea of the final territories.

The Chatter were a Super Stealth race, the only one in the universe, I think, which came as a pleasant surprise, as I thought both coming into the game and during it, that it was quite an overpowered PRT in this scenario.

Super Stealth
CE, OBRM, RS, BET
Grav: 0.51g to 6.08g
Temp: Immune
Rad: Immune
Growth: 8%
1/2500 pop efficiency
15/7/21 3g factories
12/3/16 mines
All tech expensive, no start @ 3

PRT: I chose SS, because it's a FANTASTIC, but expensive PRT. With growth forced to 8% or less, we have quite a big pool of points to spend, so the cost of the PRT is less significant than normal. With most races expected to be heavily dominant on factories, I figured stealth LBU bombers could prove devastating, and the spy bonus was expected to give me a lead in weapons tech.

Hab/Econ: Effective growth gives a compound benefit to your resources, better econ settings merely a multiplier. So, after much poking around with spreadsheets, I went with an 8% 2i race, with the third hab extremely wide. The majority of worlds would be habitable from the very start of the game (race wizards says 'virtually all'), with terraforming bringing it up to something like 95% of worlds habitable. With 2 immunities most of those worlds should be excellent. With the slow pace of the game, a HP pop efficiency of 1/2500 seemed acceptable.

Mines: In Glacier I, I took 15/3/16 mines. This was pretty good, delivering good minerals throughout the game. I went for much bigger habs this time, and had to use points from here too, forcing me down to a very weak 12/3/16 mines. My rationale was that since I'd be pulling my minerals from MORE worlds, it wouldn't matter that I wasn't getting as much out of each one, over the duration of the game. In practice, I think I should've found some more points for efficiency, I was a bit mineral poor for my size. Without my lead in tech (more on that later) I could've been in trouble.

Tech: All expensive! With bear shield the most allowed, en over 10 would be a luxury. Missiles were banned, and the USC too, which takes the pressure off elec tech too. I wasn't TT, so no need for high bio. Weap and Con were forced expensive... So really the only tech that I really wanted to be cheap was prop. But with the rest expensive, there's a lot of points to be gained by going all-expensive, so even more points were taken for those insanely good hab settings.

LRT:
BET was forced, NAS was forbidden.
I took CE because I quite like it anyway. With SS (and almost no one allowed NAS) it's not quite as devastating a weakness tactically. It would prove to be a synergy with BET, making my ships ridiculously cheap, and also making bleeding-edge engines affordable (which proved crucial with expensive, slow tech, prop)
RS... Easy pick, we'd be spending a long time with low tech DD and FF, where RS really shines.
OBRM was obvious, with my massive hab.

No fuel LRTs was a dangerous choice - no ISB docks or IFE fuel saving... But I figured CE made boosters cheaper, and I planned to use scoops on almost everything, so it should only be a pain at the start... How wrong I was, the lack of docks was a major chore fuelling a war effort, I ended up building over 500 freighters mainly to ferry fuel around. But it was liveable.


On to the game!

2401: I started on Mother in the north east corner. With high growth, I'd been hoping for a centre start, or at least an edge, so I could go in all directions... But corners have their strategic benefits, so I was happy enough. A fortuitous name for a mother-world.

For reference, the following image shows the north east corner of the map (about one sixth of the universe is shown,) in 2401:
http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=2948

2405: I spot a Zalamel scout, heading *away* from one of the worlds closest to me, Oregano, just 100ly from my homeworld. Uh oh, that's a bit close, the third closest world. With my scan radius, I figure it almost had to have come from Upsilon at warp 8, but why go back there? Strange... Still, if it were true that would be a dangerously close start.

2413: The first scouts have been launched. A bit late, but I'm a HP.

2414: Zalamel finds Mother. First world scouted: June, worst possible green hab - 41%. But that's ok, with my hab there'll be plenty of great greens in range.

2417: Things are looking VERY bad. -6%, 41%, -15%, -7%, 41%, 64%. This is FAR FAR outside expected habs. 3 reds and two on the edge? The 64% is about 10 from the edge. It would be a disaster if this was my best early green. I need to start exporting colonists soon, with 240300 colonists on Mother already. Odd, Upsilon is unoccupied... Another scout is seen leaving the still unscouted Oregano... It couldn't be a homeworld, could it? At just 100ly? I shift into panic mode.

2418: A 79%, 138ly from my homeworld... Even this is closer to the edge of my hab than the middle. I'll only get 6.32% growth here. This is not good news for a race designed to exploit a 8% growth rate. Still, at least my first exports have somewhere to go. Hopeless iron and bor concentrations.

2419: WTFBBQ. Oregano is 92%, the only world near my HW with a satisfactory hab. Only one problem, it's a IT secondary homeworld, with 48000 Zalamel and a dock already. Diplomacy is immediately opened. We both express disbelief to find our worlds so close, and come to the conclusion the god that stretched the universe thought Oregano was MY (non existent) secondary, not Zalamel's. This makes things interesting at least, to have an opponent at just 100ly in a medium-stretched-to-large. We don't need the ban on NAPs to know that we will be opponents - with his secondary being one of the best worlds for me that I've seen - but we both dance around the issue for now. Much, much later in the game, I eventually discover their homeworld to be an additional *349* ly south (Forward, which is far enough south it isn't even ON the map above.)

2431: Peace reigns, for the moment. Swarms of freighters transport my colonists out from the homeworld. CE pays dividends, with the bleeding edge RADRAM in full production. Rutebaga has 167200 colonists. On the top edge of the map I've finally found some nice greens I can actually get to, although it's the 'wrong' way to send colonists. Tchaikovsky (98%) in the corner has a tiny population, but is too distant to colonise properly, I need a starbase at Rutebaga for fuel first. Autumn Leaves (97%) on the north edge has been targetted for colonisation, a but expensive with a ratio of 4 privateer boosters (fuel pod banned) to one loaded privateer needed. Cephus (89%) is at least north west - slightly away from the corner. 72300 colonists live there. I've found even more reds, and some more marginal worlds. Even with the glut of fantastic worlds identified in Zalamel territory, this corner of the universe has been very unkind. 4800 Zalamel are discovered on June, the marginal world just to the south of my homeworld! Only 72ly away!

2432: First blood! My blue DD and one partially loaded privateer is destroyed in orbit of June by a Zalamel red DD. The other privateer survives, and takes control of the colony. The 5100 surviving invaders find enough installations already built... Very worrying, the Zalamel are presumed to have 1/1000 population efficiency. In other words, their race should be faster than me, but probably lower growth. I need time.

2433: An unloaded silver freighter (presumed to be a scout) is spotted heading to a unscouted world to my west.

2434: My empire receives it's first orders for 3 years. (It's leadership moved continents.) Colonists had piled up on the homeworld, and thousands of resources were wasted in the wrong field (elec instead of weap.) Many tiny Zalamel colonies are spotted, I begin to suspect it has 6% growth. This worries me even more - his race should be very fast early.

2437: Chameleon scouts launch, several years after the tech had been achieved, delayed by the need to offload the pop that had built up on the homeworld during the years of chaos. Better late than never. The second half-shipment of colonists to Tchaikovsky finally slingshots through Rutebaga, enough fuel having slowly built up as freighters looped between there and the homeworld.

2440: Tchaikovsky is finally in reach - my first space station is completed at Rutebaga. Zalamel hover to the south of me, a larger colony developing at Fleabite, also only 100ly from Mother. My penscans watch closely, only 2 red DDs in each orbit. I have no fleet of my own, just a couple of interceptors (fast red DDs) launching to intercept incoming Amphibia and Silver scouts from the west. I see two nice greens unoccupied to the west, but with Silver freighters on the way. I dispatch destroyers and freighters with a mind to to pop drop. An armed fort has gone up at June, in case Zalamel tries to retake it.

2442: My hunters block the Silver colonisation of Notlob to my west, shooting down the freighter. I finally get this loose cluster scanned... And wish I'd scanned it long ago, four nice worlds, and mostly unoccupied. One has a small Silver population, more on the way. I decide to invest a small amount of resources in attacking this area, hoping to secure it cheaply - my main target being the Zalamel threat, of course.

2443: I kill the Silver scout SF at Notlob, but not before he sees my privateers swarming in. 83000 colonists take control. I get weap6, and begin building beta torp DDs and black cat bombers. All my colonists are heading west now, to secure this new cluster. The first MT enters the SE corner of the universe, far out of my reach.

2444: Zalamel merge their red DDs at Fleabite. I upgrade the fort at June in expectation of an attack, but none comes.

2445: Lots of Zalamel privateers have been routing though Oregano. I suspect a mineral build up for a packet strike on my homeworld, but I figure the en tech must be a way off still, and the world has tiny germ concs so perhaps they're just bringing germ. I have 24 beta torp DDs, and many more in the queue. I decide to skip defences and keep rushing my fleet, with the intention of taking his orbits before he's ready to throw.

2446: A Mobster scout evades my Hunters, it seems there's a WM race to the west of me somewhere. 14 of my torp DDs are heading west, and 10 bombers. Too small a fleet to deal with any serious defence, but hopefully enough to kick Silver from his fledgeling colonies. He has two larger populations on the south west edge of this clump of worlds, but those are not habitable to me. If I can aggressively take the greens, I hope he will sit back and defend. The rest mass near my homeworld, waiting for enough numbers to push on the Zalamel.

====
The First Zalamel War begins
====

2450: DISASTER! Two Zalamel mineral packets head for my HW. My busy production has gathered me 71 bombers and 69 beta torp DDs (ten of each still limping towards Silver, the rest merging up hidden in open space in strike range of Zalamel.) I lift off half the population of the homeworld, and evacuate.

The second MT is skimming the edge of my territory. Close enough to tantalise me, far enough I just can't get there in time. All my neighbours will have a chance for it.

2451: Zalamel chaff tracks my fleet leaving Mother, but he's still unaware of the real fleet. I forget to watch the orbit of Mother, but presume that he has colonised. He gates in 15 red DDs to Fleabite. I build some defences at June, but much to my surprise he doesn't try to packet it, instead switching back to gates on his docks, so I at least still have one colony still in range of my conquered HW. It only has a fort though, and no gate.

2452: Zalamel proves a worthy opponent. Most of his DDs move to Mother at a risky warp 10, meaning that the 15 beta DDs I sent to take back control are wiped out. The battle takes long enough that most of my privateers survive, but the fort prevents me pop dropping. I kick myself for not setting a portion of the fleet to attack-starbase. My main fleet destroys the dock at Fleabite and begin bombing, some revenge...

2453: Gates go up at the new stations at Rutebaga, Cephus and Autumn Leaves, with beta torp DDs in full production. A gate is added to the fort at June - if I can keep that fort alive, maybe I can win this war. Bombing at Fleabite finishes destroying the installations.

====
First Silver War begins
====

Desperate times, call for desperate measures. I guess I'm a little crazy, triggering another war right after losing my homeworld, but I figure a show of strength might actually keep me from having to defend on my western front. Hopefully he doesn't know about my war with Zalamel. My small force of DDs and bombers arrive at Silver's colony of Ursa Good, destroying the gated dock and defending DDs.

2454: Ursa Good is conquered, my tiny fleet bombs it's neighbour, Nod. I send the following message to Silver:
"I've got the worlds I wanted to take (Nod and Ursa Good.) They're closer to my HW than yours anyway... If you don't retaliate for the loss of Ursa Good and the impending loss of Nod, then I plan to focus my forces elsewhere, leaving you with Tierra, Alexander, and a peaceful border. If I see you reverse your fleet build up at those worlds, I will be able to do this. Otherwise I'll have to consider taking these worlds to create a buffer zone, which I don't really need or want."

I hope that he doesn't read it as a sign of weakness. I somehow neglect to mention that I don't actually control my HW any more

I'm still bombing Fleabite. Zalamel masses everything I can see (44 red DDs) at Mother, it's obviously a good world for him, and he's willing to risk me hitting Oregano in order to keep it secure. Smart play.

2455: I conquer Fleabite, stealing energy tech into the bargain. Zalamel pings June, and sees the max-yak fort and gate. He now has 58 red DDs at Mother. I have 52 beta DDs in the theatre. My production has shifted to Yak DDs. I'm researching energy using Rutebaga (it has no iron for ship building,) I want better shields.

The third MT comes down the middle of the universe, also far from my reach.

====
First Silver War ends
====
With a sigh of relief, I see Silver remove most of his ships from his border worlds. It appears that my bravado was enough to secure the worlds I wanted. I imagine he must have concerns on other borders, and certainly must be unaware of my expensive war with Zalamel. I presume having a WM on his far border is probably enough to keep him from wanting to fight me over the worlds I took from him.

2456: Most of Zalamel's DDs move to Fleabite, I lose a small number of DDs and 10 bombers. He bombs out the tiny amount of colonists I had on the ground, preventing me from lifting off the minerals I'd found. I mass at June, protecting the gate - I need it to stay up long enough to gate in enough yak DDs to retake Mother.

2457: I miss the gen, meaning no ship production. The survivors at Fleabite survive, thanks to Zalamel's DDs limping back towards Oregano, low on fuel. At least this takes the bleeding edge off wolverines, so I update my yak design. Zalamel throws a packet from Mother to June! He doesn't know I've built a small amount of defences though (you have to keep a scout alive to get an update on the defences present, even though Stars incorrectly claims the report is current) and his packet is a little too small to get a kill. I lift most of the colonists, leaving just enough to operate the defences.

I'm in rank 6 right now. Not bad for a HP without a homeworld - proof that 8% growth + good hab is a strong choice in this environment.

2458: Victory! With the Zalamel DDs low on fuel, heading for Oregano, I send my beta DDs to Mother, hoping this isn't a trap. They destroy a handful of defenders and destroy the gate. My gate at June survives the packet and my colonists return to work. I begin pop dropping - then abandoning - the tiny Zalamel colonies to the south, my SS freighters travelling unseen with small populations aboard. I want to ensure that if I kill Oregano, there will be no other gates nearby.

2459: I'm bombing Mother. He's built up to max defences. It hurts, but I have no choice. Zalamel don't seem to be building up much of a new force at Oregano, I presume they're researching hard to counter my new yaks, or are hiding a force. Fuel is a major issue, with only a fort in the theatre. I'm gating freighters back and forth to starbases, trying to bring in fuel.

2460: Counter attack! 47 Zalamel red DDs come in at warp 10 to knock out my gate at June. The Bludgeon fort proves devastating, but falls. He pays a heavy price though, with only 23 DDs surviving with 29% damage. He has begun to gate in beta DDs to Oregano, but not many. Bombing at Mother is slow.

2461: No battles, his DDs flee back to Oregano at warp 10. 15 unknown Zalamel beam DDs gate in to Oregano, presumably yaks, but I worry from the delay in his reinforcements that they could be bazookas. He recolonises Fleabite, presumably to reclaim the minerals as he doesn't bring many colonists. I can see Silver fighting with Amphibia in the west, this explains why I got away with my toothless aggression earlier. Most of my armed ships have left Mother. A small fleet sets off on the long journey towards Rommel, his only remaining colony within 300ly, barring Oregano.

2462: He tries to counter attack, coming in at warp 10 yet again... But this time I'm the one with a trap set - for two years I had targeted his DDs at a low warp, so that my ships would advance slowly towards Oregano when he defended, but would return to Mother if - and only if - he rushed in to attack. I lose 20 of the older yak DDs, he loses 44 assorted DDs and the dock again. Bombing at Mother is nearing completion, defences down to 39%. Only 12 DDs are at Oregano, my victory in this war seems almost inevitable now, much to my disbelief.

2463: The installations on Mother are finally wiped out, although there's still 97600 colonists on the ground. The fourth MT enters the universe, heading west to east. It'll pass straight through Zalamel space in about 10 years. I have no hope of catching this one either, no matter how well the war goes.

2464: LIBERATION! Mother is mine again. A stack of yak DDs takes out the Zalamel fleet and dock at Oregano without losses, things are definitely looking up. I can see a fort has gone up at Rommel, but I'm guessing no gate yet, and my tiny fleet (3 yak DDs and one ancient and severely damaged red DD) is just one year out and apparently undiscovered.

2465: Rommel is conquered, the fort upgrading to a gated dock - but unarmed, he didn't see my SS ships coming. The fifth MT enters in the far south, heading west, no hope of catching this one either. Zalamel sue for peace, surrendering around 200ly of territory beyond Oregano. In exchange I permit them to remove their colonists from Oregano. I permit him to establish a research/mining base on Fleabite, on the basis that if he builds an orbital or defences, I will immediately destroy the world. Any minerals he uploads to my freighters would be split 50/50. I essentially see this move as taking hostage of ~250000 colonists, giving him a strong incentive not to attack the many new - and very hard to defend - colonies I will soon found in the seized territory.

2466: Tchaikovsky is hit by another comet! I lose about 250000 colonists. The gate at Oregano is back up, to evacuate his colonists. I commence construction of shadow bazooka DDs, in case he does not evacuate.

2467: Silver is massing forces on the border. I suspect his war with Amphibia has reached a ceasefire, but I don't have enough scouts to know for sure (was too busy building DDs)

2468: I finally discover the Amphibia homeworld, Tlon. Nominally it borders my empire directly, although there is a gulf of over 250ly. He must not have been happy with that planet distribution.

====
The First Zalamel War ends
====

Zalamel sticks to his word, I destroy the gate at Oregano without incident, my victory secured. It was a little foolhardy to let him build a gate to evacuate with - risking a counter attack - but I figured my forces were superior, and the opportunity to claim the world with installations intact was worth the risk.

Pickets arrive at the new border, and begin destroying Zalamel scouts. He might have surrendered, but I wasn't about to let him see that my fleet was departing west, rather than guarding the new worlds. I begin building more bombers - this time to use against Silver.

2472: I'm up to rank 4. I give thanks to my race design for being so robust, and start to wonder if I can actually win this game, despite the huge early setbacks I faced.

====
The Second Silver War begins
====

My fleet arrives at one of the Silver border colonies, Tierra, destroying 25 beta DDs and a dock without casualties. It's his homeworld I'm interested in, but I need to take these outposts first, he's IT and has bombers on my border, I need these gates down.

2473: I make it up to rank 4. Silver gates more defenders into Alexander, the other border world, but I'm still busy bombing Tierra and need refuelling. The sixth MT enters the universe from the west, heading slowly to exit on the east side along the border between myself and Zalamel, in about 20 years. Finally, one I can catch... When it gets here.

2474: Signs of trouble, the force at Alexander is growing very fast, over 200 beta DDs already. I've been building bazookas non stop, but they're slow to reach the front. I currently have 738 DDs, of various designs. Bombing at Tierra is progressing nicely. I wish I had time to build and wait for smarts to do the job, but these old black cat bombers get the job done and I care more about taking territory than I do about taking the worlds intact.

2475: Uh oh. The Protoss, to the south of Zalamel, just killed one of my scouts with colloidal cruiser, with overthrusters. I'm a fair bit behind that on tech: 9/10/8/9/7/4 (remembering BET means that ship is effectively weap 11, prop 13, con 10.)

Bombing at Tierra is almost complete. However, Alexander now has about 350 defenders. I have a lot more than that, but getting them in position is slow.

It's about this time that Zalamel tell me Protoss have warned them that they would be attacking soon. I don't like the idea of having a strong neighbour to my south, and would prefer to keep the Zalamel alive until I'm ready to conquer them myself. So I open diplomacy with the Protoss, warn them that I'm SS, and inform them that if they attack Zalamel, I will prove to be a far more dangerous neighbour. I suggest that having the Zalamel as a no man's land between us would be better for him. Our diplomacy is vigorous and colourful, but Protoss turns his attentions westward instead.

I offer Alexander to the Zalamel, it's a red world for me, on the same terms as Fleabite - I'll give him a half share of whatever minerals he can mine, but it will be destroyed if he builds an orbital or defences.

2476: Tierra is conquered, I gain elec8 from conquest. Over 500 defenders at Alexander. I ought to wait, but I plot orders to attack. I construct a few mine layers, in case things go badly, and order construction of a few sapper DDs, since all his ships are shielded (as are mine.)

2477: Massive battle, lasting the full 16 rounds. I lose 322 DDs - all the old yaks, plus a fair few of the bazookas. He loses 535 beta DDs and the orbital. My ships only moved at speed 1, had he used chicken orders, I would've lost 100+ ships and killed nothing but the orbital, however I'd been pinging the world for years and his orders were always default, so I risked going in to remove the threat.

2478: I reach rank 3. Bombing commences at Alexander. Silver's 69 surviving DDs flee towards 555-1212, his homeworld. My first Rogues leave the shipyards - a 96% cloaked scout with a penscan of just 67ly.

2479: Bombing of Alexander is slow. The MT heading for my borderlands speeds up, but there's still plenty of time to get in position. Silver continues to mass the same beta torp ship design. He must have had a lot of iron. I continue constructing baz DDs, most of which mass near Alexander, waiting for the push south to Silver's HW - but out of orbit so as to keep the scale of my fleet concealed. The continuing appeal of the baz DDs is their cheap price, and the ability to gate them - since both the 150/600 and 300/500 gates are still out of reach. Only about 20% of my resources are going into research each year.

2481: Alexander has been conquered. Ship production has eased back a bit, and I rush weap11, so I have the option of using colloidals or deltas, and then bio7, to build smart bombs to take at least one of Silver's core worlds intact - I'll need at least one gate to secure the area, and worlds bombed flat will be too slow for that.

I convince Zalamel to let me take Opus 10, a red (to him) world near his homeworld - with the purpose of building a gate with which to bring in forces to support him should the Protoss attack. This extends my reach two jumps further south.

I am now in rank 2. Unbelievable, considering the debacle of the early game. I don't rest on my laurels though, I know I'm a long way behind most of the races tech.

2482: My fleets stand one jump from Silver's homeworld. The minefield is swept back, the world is pinged and found to be low on defenders - less than half mine in numbers, and it's beta torps and yaks against bazookas, sappers and betas. With superiority, my fleet build has halted, while I construct installations up to a new 36% hold (I've been at 25% for the entire game) and now bio8, so I can build smart bombs past the bleeding edge.

2483: Victory! I lose 77 sappers and 25 bazooka DDs, to kill 248 beta DDs, 259 yak DDs and the starbase. With a second big Silver fleet gone, that's the end of him. Conventional bombing commences - there's no time to wait for smarts. I'm building delta torp DDs now, to remove my so far unexploited vulnerability to disengagers.

I notice an unprotected Amphibia fleet on the way to the MT, and suggest to Protoss that he kills it, which he proceeded to do. In hindsight, this may have been an error - Amphibia had not shown much strength yet, so it may have been more useful to have him catch it, as a potential foil for Mob. They were intersettled though, so a stronger Amphibia might have very much worked to my disadvantage.

2484: Uh oh, a scan of X-Ray, barely over 100ly south west of the most valuable cluster of Silver planets, shows 10 Mob battle cruisers and two battleships. Smart bomber production commences, my elec tech is still low, so they're only 86% cloaked. My tech is now 9/11/9/9/8/8 and I'm planning on pushing weapons hard until I catch the MT, in the hope of getting some expensive levels. CE means I'm able to afford to use prop9 engines on my new freighters and bombers, and the fuel saving couldn't come sooner...

2485: Mob spotted my old scout, and destroyed it with a delta torp battle cruiser. Old Yak DDs head towards his world in the hope of discovering the battleship design. I've destroyed another Silver starbase. One left in this cluster. Protoss is the first to start feasting on Silver's fallen empire, bombing his southernmost colony. I didn't expect to get that one, so I'm not too bothered. This will give him a border with Mob, if he didn't have one already, so this could be worked to my advantage.

2486: Uh oh, Mob has launched a fleet towards the Silver HW. 10 col BB, 10 delta BC, 28 CC, plus a few bombers and frigates. He's also massing forces at X-Ray, the world near my pending Silver conquests. 234 FF, 6 col BB, 5 BC. He's killing my old scouts pretty quickly, but fortunately the new 96% cloaked variant has arrived so my sight is maintained. Amphibia masses over 500 ships at Putty, he's clearly about to take the two Silver worlds to the west of me.

2487: I've conquered the Silver HW. Mob has swept back my minefield, and has massed everything nearby. Mob's space begins to swarm with cheap scouts, trying to spot my ships. I will catch the MT next turn, just after getting weap12 through research. The seventh MT has entered the universe, heading from southeast to northwest, through Mob territory. I can't see any way to catch this one.

2488:
====
First Mob War begins
====
Mob attacks at 555-1212, the conquered homeworld. Weight trumps range, and my huge stack of slow baz DDs have absolutely no trouble dealing with the enemy battleships. However I lose 60 delta DDs to some frigates and cruisers that slip past the main line of battle. Still, it's a massive victory. Smart bombers kill 30400 of my colonists, but they will flee soon. I'm safe for the moment, no Mob reinforcements on the way. I make the mistake of gloating about my low tech DDs glorious victory against the battleships and battlecruisers, underestimating Mob's strength - he will come back a lot harder soon.

====
Second Silver War ends
====
Silver evacuates Early, and probably Fizbin too. Perhaps he doesn't know that installations are preserved in this situation, or perhaps he just wanted to 'rescue' as many of his colonists as he could. But it's done, his colonies near me are now uninhabited. This makes life much, much easier for me, as while 555-1212 had to be bombed out, I can now try to take Early and Fizbin intact, and get gates and defences up.

I got 10 techs from the MT: prop10, en10, con10, el9, bio9, en11, w13, w14, con11, el10. Pushing weapons tech so hard has paid dividends, I'm only 15k research from w15, removing the bleeding edge from the mark IV blaster. I plot in this much research immediately. I still don't have battleships, but blaster cruisers should be a good equaliser for me.

2489: With w15 researched I start construction on a cheap and nasty blaster cruiser. Six shadow shields and four blasters will make it an excellent foil against Mob's colloidal cruiser, if he persists with it. It's 89% cloaked which is pretty nice at this point in the game. I take a big risk with the battle speed. Expecting this cruiser to be used against Protoss first, I give it a speed of 1.25 - so it will fire at Protoss' speed 2.25+ battleships in the first round. However, against Mob's speed 2 battleships, this means he will out range me in the first round. I needed speed 1 or speed 2.25+ to counter Mob's design.

My low tech fleet advances towards X-Ray, looking to knock out the gate there and thus secure my gains against Silver.

2490: Silver vacates Vacant and Lycra, in the face of an Amphibia advance. Those were his last two worlds. He appears to have deleted his freighters, transferring his colonists into another dimension. A lonely fleet of destroyers and minelayers slowly heads up the border between Amphibia and Chatter, towards the map edge.

Mob gathers a bigger fleet at X-Ray! I shouldn't have gloated at my win - he's responded to my happy comment about numbers trumping tech, by congratulating me the victory.... And by gating in a lot more battleships. I count 58 battleships, plus around 150 smaller ships. Not good. A dense cloud of scouts has also spotted my incoming fleet of ~850 destroyers, so I retreat to a position where I can cover all three of my new conquests. Only 2 are colonised at this point, 555-1212 has a gated fort, but no installations. Early, the furthest from Mob, has a larger population, but no orbital. I queue up defences first, in case of packet strike from Mob or Protoss. A coloniser heads for Fizbin, in the hope I can get some defences up before Mob arrives. I build my first 98% cloaked ship, a rouge scout with a penscan range of 131 ly.

2491: Mob stays put, but his fleet grows even further. He throws a warp 12 packet at 555-1212. Nothing I can do to survive it, so I jump the packet and set orders to recolonise. This means the gate is gone though, so I throw up a gated fort at Early. Cruiser production is in full swing, with construction routing to a small number of expensive 150/600 gates that I'll use to deliver them to the area. They're the wrong battle speed, I should've deleted the new scout and switched production, but I persevere with this design, hoping to get large enough shield stacking that it won't matter. 250000 colonists land on Fizbin, immediately building a gate and starting on the defences.

2492: I'm now rank 1! Some sort of bug says that 555-1212 was hit by a Xeelee packet. Of course, this was the Mob packet. It also says it's only 8kt. Not sure if that's a bug, or if Mob was already using cloaked galleons at this point, and picked up his own packet. He throws another one, just 88kt. He sends forward 83 BBs plus about 200 other ships. I shift into full panic mode. I can't deal with this fleet, however there don't seem to be any reinforcements on the way... With this in mind, I queue up max defences at all three worlds, and don't evacuate *any* of my colonists. I intend to make his bombing as slow as possible, in the hope he'll be so busy at 555-1212 and Fizbin, that the gate at Early survives long enough for me to gather a large enough force to regain control of the orbits. It'll be a nail-biting few years.

I complete research of con12, so that if I get tech killing any battleships, it'll be con13, then switch back to weapons tech. I'm not doing much research now, of course, almost my entire economy is mass producing these w14 cruisers.

2493: Another 88kt packet. With almost no installations, 555-1212 can't get it's defences up, these small packets are preventing me from staying. I reluctantly evacuate. A lot more bombers join Mob's fleet, and he pings Fizbin. I steel myself, and resist the urge to evacuate. 312200 colonists on the surface, waiting to be sacrificed to the Mob's bombers. Hopefully they'll survive long enough for the gate at Early to stay up. My old Beta torp DDs scatter out of Early, trying to blind Mob to keep him cautious. I'm building nearly 200 cruisers per turn.

2494: Mob plays it cautiously, sending bombers and frigates to take control of 555-1212, keeping his battleships back. A scout watches in orbit of Fizbin. I commission a new skirmisher, the blinker. Just a fast (for me) AD8 engine a colloidal, and a cheap shield. This ship is designed specifically to counter Mob's swarms of cheap scouts, which I've been having to target with 5 beta DDs each until now.

2495: Mob pop drops 555-1212 with a tiny population, and his frigates and bombers move on to Fizbin, killing 25% of the population. His battleships remain in open space.

2496: I gate a force of 514 cruisers into Early, what I believe is a large enough force to see off the battleships. Unfortunately Mob also chooses this turn to ping Early for the first time, so he knows they're there. An attempt to sneakily pop drop 555-1212 results in fiery death for one LF and 10 DD escorts, as Mob's battleships move in to cover his own colonist's arrival. Fizbin is bombed again, now down to 240800 colonists - just enough to operate all the defences, after growth. It won't survive much longer.

The seventh MT sharply changed direction! It will now rip along my western border at warp 12. I will almost certainly be able to catch it, and it appears that Mob and Shadow have both been denied the catch as a result.

2497: The Mob's battleships retreat to Fizbin, where bombing brings the population down to 185500. Painful to watch. My cruisers failed to move, meaning I'm still 2 years from being able to relieve the world. Mob pings Early again, so he knows they're still there.

2498: Another huge battle! Mob's fleet moves back into a position where it can reach all three worlds, plus X-Ray. I'm guessing it was a trap, as a large number of sapper battleships gate in to X-Ray: presumably the hope was that seeing the fleet within reach, I would then target the fleet only to arrive as the sappers joined it. Unfortunately for the plan, I targetted the fleet while it was still out of range, at Fizbin, and so my fleet engages it one year early. I lose all 184 phased sapper cruisers, but my 514 blaster cruisers never even lose their shields.

Mob's misfortune also piled up, as the new sapper battleship used the Gorilla, so he was obliged to scrap it. Apparently these misfortunes a result of holiday cover from a player unaware of the shield restriction. Ouch.

2499: My fleet moves on to X-Ray, finally securing the area.

More good fortune: Zalamel were feinting at Early in preparation to get close enough to hit Moe (Protoss.) However their fleet didn't just get close, it *actually* attacked Early. A group of reinforcements happened to arrive that year, and fought them off quite handily. This is bad, I need Zalamel about to resist Protoss... But! I was then rather lucky. Despite not even having the prop tech to build it, I captured the design for the Enigma Pulsar from this single event (admittedly there were 76 MT ship parts present in the battle.)

2500: I complete research of w16 just in time to catch the MT. It gives tech: bio11, w17, b12, en12, p12, el12, en13, w18, c13. I find myself very near to completing the next level in en, weap, prop, con, el and bio (about 15k from the next level in each), this means I'll soon be able to field rho battleships. At the turn of the century I'm in 1st with 44k. I'm also afraid of the Protoss, known to be fielding death stars, and CPS/MPS battleships thanks to AR being permitted to use any shield. This sounds almost unassailable to me.

====
First Mob War ends
====

I see the Mob gathering a new fleet at Last Chance. It was small enough that I was confident of taking control of X-Ray, and being able to push past, but big enough that I would have to keep up ship production at full speed, something that didn't feel appealing to me, sitting on the cusp of being able to drag myself a second generation of tech ahead. - push for w22/23 to be able to trump Protoss' shields by way of synchro sappers and be able to wreck his death stars with upsilon torpedoes I made contact with Mob, and negotiated a cease fire. He was on the defensive at this point, so I took a strong stance to focus his attention on what I considered the biggest threat in the universe - the Protoss. We agreed to set aside our war for now, and prepared to take on the Protoss.

2500-2510:
I rushed out 53 phased sapper BB, so I had something to counter Protoss if he attacked, by backing up my cruisers. I made them very cheap and very slow, so they would not race past my cruisers, but they would be almost useless for anything else.

====
Second Zalamel War begins
====
I made a HUGE diplomatic coup with the Zalamel. After crushing their fleet with a tiny fraction of my own, I persuaded them that their only hope for survival in the long term, was under the shadow of my empire. I would take their territory, they would be allowed to survive on the few worlds red to me. After the first few worlds changed hands, the Host took note, and disagreed that a surrender on this magnitude could be considered fair play. I disputed this, but acquiesced and we immediately switched to open warfare instead. Robber barons, smart bombers and packets made short work of most remaining worlds, with the extreme tech and economy disparity making resistance as futile as we predicted. Upsilon / BMC BB vs. Epsilon / Gatling CC?

Protoss send a fleet through a wormhole, to take Amphibia, but Mob and I both protested and brought in our own fleets. He backed down and withdrew (he was still too busy at war with Xeelee to be willing to take on both of us as well.)

A new MT enters on the west side of the map, heading directly across to pass along the border area between Zalamel and Protoss.

2510-2520
I meet the MT in 2517. It claims to give me 7 advances: b13, p15, el14, b14, en15, c15, w23, el15, el16, el17. Count them and you'll see that's 10. My tech was set to flow from weap to el, so when it gave me w23, it appears that enough resources overflowed to give me 3 levels of el.

At 2520 I have 83k resources, the 20% ahead of 2nd rank is lit. I have tech: 16/23/16/16/17/14, and am researching towards nexi. I considered researching for nubians, but would not be able to reach them until around 2540 at the earliest. I wanted to fight Protoss before then, which would use some resources, and the game was scheduled to end in 2560. 15-20 years is quite a long time to have such a huge technological advantage, however to get them that soon would mean sub-optimal growth, and I had a feeling this game was going to come down to who could grow the most. Getting to nubians and slaughtering my neighbours, only to be beaten on score by a race on the other side of the universe didn't seem appealing to me. So I went for nexi instead, to have the option of using init to make the best BBs, rather than going for nubians to be able to use deflectors.

Conquest of Zalamel was near complete, three worlds remained, one of which Protoss was bombing, the other two were red or yellow to me, so I milked them of minerals using Robber Barons, ignoring the now obsolete cruisers that defended them.

Mob, seeing me take control of Zalamel's space, launched an assault on the Amphibia, swiftly taking all the orbits. I tried to negotiate to take some of the worlds myself, but knowing that I was so worried about Protoss he knew that my threats were empty ones. He agreed to give me the metal output of two of the worlds, which proved enough to keep my attention focussed on our mutual goal of taking down the Protoss.

The war with Protoss would commence soon. Cloaked Rho and Upsilon battleships were infiltrating his minefields, and preparing to ensure he couldn't catch that tech MT himself.


2520-2525:

====
Protoss War begins
====
Rho battleships deny Protoss, and then their de facto ally the Griffin, the MT catch.

Small fleets of heavily cloaked Rho or Upsilon battleships snipe Protoss orbitals, taking five worlds in the first couple of years. The pace then slows drastically while I form up larger fleets, in order to be able to push his away. I wasn't quite ready to fight, but denying him the MT catch was judged too important, so the war started early.

In 2525 I have about 300 torp battleships (most Upsilon), 70 synchro sapper battleships, and 323 Mega-D battleships, plus numerous older ships. My resources are 88k, but the 20% ahead indicator is no longer checked.

Mobster attacks Protoss simultaneously, but without the high tech torpedoes, he has to use a small number of very large beamer stacks instead of being able to snipe the orbitals.

Zalamel is penned into two worlds, with Robbers stealing the minerals, and warships occasionally swinging through on their way south to kill orbitals.

Meanwhile, the Shadow has launched an assault on the Griffin, and makes rapid gains.


2526-2530:
Progress is somewhat slow, with about 1 world falling per year on average. Protoss recolonise in force at H2SO4, behind my main line of attack, causing a distracting pause in my attack while I dealt with this threat (he gated in B52 bombers and battleships.) I probably should have ignored it and pressed on immediately.

My only significant losses have been from a battle at Qaphqa, where I lost 52 Upsilon battleships, the old phased sapper battleships, and about 300 of the veteran blaster cruisers dating back to the Mob war... The damage delivered by just 103 Protoss battleships. There was a bit of to and fro over control of the world - and thus the scrap - but ultimately I was able to secure it.

Fuel has been a major and underestimated problem. Use of the Enigma Pulsar rather than the warp 10 scoop on my torp battleships, for extra cloaking and battle speed, means fuel can't be recovered in any significant amount simply by slowing down. I end up constructing hundreds of additional freighters, just to use as fuel tankers.


2531-2535:
Progress accelerates again, with around 8 death stars falling in this period. Casualties are close to zero, with the Protoss declining battle. Mob make significant gains also, but lose one major battle when Protoss gates his fleet between the two fronts unexpectedly. Protoss suffers significant damage and losses from repeatedly overgating his heavy MPS battleships, and builds up a stack of cheaper, lighter ships, but it's too late.

Kan, one of the homeworlds taken by Protoss, is habitable to both Chatter and Mob. We negotiate and Mob agrees to let me take it, on the condition that he would take Fox Trot once the attack reached that far south. This lead to some tension, as Kan was low on priority list of worlds to take, but I eventually diverted took it in 2535, I suspect only a couple of years before Mob would've stopped waiting and moved in to take it himself.


2536-2545:
The Protoss homeworld has fallen. I reach about the southern extent of my conquest, my fleets coming to a halt as they approach Cancer. They destroy everything around it, but pull back. Protoss was clearly defeated, although his fleet remained intact. The threat was now the Mob and the Shadow.

I had one Griffin colony isolated. I persuaded him to vacate this world, in return for me not attacking him. I tried for three, but he correctly guessed that the threat of him throwing everything he had in my direction - giving the Shadow an easy ride along the south edge of the map - would be enough to hold me back to a single cheap conquest (Pheson.)

In 2545 I had 94k and was now in second place. I presumed behind the Shadow, who had been conquering Griffin territories after feeding off a couple of other defeated player's empires. My tech was now at 19/24/17/19/20/15, and I was researching w25 in order to be able to use the streaming pulveriser. Mob was using GNC DNs, so a range 1 cruiser could prove an extremely cheap counter, with a lot of hull per mineral, and a lot of firepower from the pulveriser.

I still had a 36% hold at this point, with most low hab worlds at 100% capacity. At this point I lifted everything off to a 35% hold, to maximise growth empire wide, with a view to maximising my population in time for a score victory at 2560.


2546-2550:
Mob switched to a new battleship just as I completed w25, so I discarded the pulveriser-cruiser plan, lest I be slaughtered by a range 1 vs range 3 match up. The extra miniaturisation on the mega-D was wonderful though, and I commenced production on a super cheap battleship, with just 6 mega-D and 2 sappers per ship. Limited on bor, and with BET and CE savings on the hull, engine, and shields, this was a very efficient ship. All my opponents were *still* using the heavy disruptor, so this design had superior firepower, yet came in at around 2/3 of the price per ship (450 resources, 111/171/82 minerals) - probably more like 1/2 cost compared to the MPS equipped ships that seemed to dominate most fleets. High init wouldn't be a hard counter for a stack of these, simply because there were so many MORE of them.

Griffin was getting rolled up, I was trying to persuade Mob to fight Shadow, but wasn't having any luck... So I decided to push in with a significant fleet, try to distract Shadow from Griffin.


2551-2555:
I distracted him a little too hard. In 2553, playing a little too sleepy, 600 battleships attacked Wavell, after sweeping the fields around it and two neighbours. I should've sent snipers to all three, and kept the main fleet in open space... But I sent the whole lot to one world only. Shadow gated in around 900 battleships and 200 cruisers to defend. 350 of his battleships survived (some very odd battle board movement helped, with my two torp stacks staying in range of his beams, when if they had moved back at least one would've been out of range.)

I thought at the time that this was a disaster. In retrospect, I wish I could claim it as a genius move. The battle scrap was gained too late in the game to profit significantly from, at a time when all worlds needed to be spamming factories, not ships. The reduction in Shadow's fleet, moved Griffin all the way from being too weak to be able to defend against Shadow, to having an irresistible fleet advantage, which he pressed ruthlessly. I believe my losses also lead Mob to fear an attack from me a little less, thus feeling more freedom to move (on anyone) a little more, and gave credence to my claims that I saw Shadow as the clear game leader - spending 600 battleships on him demonstrated that I genuinely saw more of a threat there than from him.

The raw numbers that I compiled from the planet and fleet reports - having penscan coverage of the entire universe - showed that if the Shadow had a 4.75 efficiency econ (1/1000 15/x/25) then he had a near unassailable lead. If he had a 4.15 efficiency econ (1/2500 15/x/25) then he had a significant lead over both Mob and Chatter. If Mob had a 4.75 econ, then he had a lead over Chatter. I gave this analysis to Mob - omitting my own population data, he'd have to take it on trust where I landed in the rankings, but indicating that I had a 3.55 efficiency econ (1/2500 15/x/21). Basically, it showed that if all colonists were dropped to the surface to meet waiting factories, then the rankings at that point would be: Shadow, Mob, Chatter, if Shadow had at least 4.15 efficiency. Little did either of us know, Shadow had weaker settings than that, 3.15, thus was actually positioned behind both of us.

I had infiltrated Mob at this point, with three 98% cloaked fleets hiding very close to his worlds (they were safe at about the 16ly mark - far enough out not to be seen by the planet or ships in orbit, close enough not to be seen by the randomly moving networks of scouts, that rarely strayed closer than about 25ly.) Obviously it was my hope that if Shadow could be brought down to my size by attacks by Griffin, Mob, and myself, then a few small strikes on Mob in the last 1 or 2 turns might reduce him to my size too.


2556-2560:
Griffin continued his all out counter attack on Shadow.

I sent cloaked fleets through a wormhole, into Shadow's rear area. Most came back through the wormhole, but a few tiny fleets split away and infiltrated Shadow's core. These 'fleets' of 1 to 3 upsilon battleships struck five worlds, managing to eliminate the freighters loaded with colonists from four of them - about 1.2 million colonists.

A small fleet the avoided the carnage at Wavell, bombed out one Shadow world, then successfully made it clear into Mob space. Shadow still appeared to be potentially ahead (not knowing his econ settings) in the last few years, so it returned to Shadow's space and hit another world in the final turn.

Mob began manoeuvring into position to hit the Shadow. Apparently seeing this plan in motion, Shadow struck first with packets and fleets. It looked to me like Mob lost around 1 million colonists to Shadow's strikes.

All this time, I was busily optimising my population. Boring spreadsheet and fleet work, distributing my germanium and population as perfectly as possible. I set up so that most of my worlds would not be brought to 100% capacity until wp1 on the final turn, so I'd even get growth on that last year. Border worlds were taken to 100% at wp0 on the final turn, or earlier in the case of the most vulnerable worlds, to reduce my vulnerability to snipers. In the end, almost my entire empire was taken to 100% capacity, and almost every colonist had a factory to work.

Dense clouds of minefields built throughout the whole game (I nearly hit the 512 minefield limit) combined with clouds of scanners in the last 5 years, meant I could be quite confident going into the final couple of turns that I would not take damage to cloaked fleets. Most of the border worlds built fast nexi/torp battleships in the final couple of years, to snipe out any bombers from any fleets that might arrive. None did.

Mob hit me with packets, but his bombers only faced Shadow. With almost max tech defences by this point, I only lost about 300,000 colonists to this barrage. At the same time, two of my cloaked fleets struck Mob, the LBU bombers destroying around 80% of the installations, and killing the freighters in orbit. One of them managed to hit a second world successfully. The third fleet didn't attack until 2560, and was unsuccessful. I threw packets at Mob too, although they proved mostly ineffective as like me he built twin drivers at most border worlds... It didn't help that several of my packets were fired at worlds out of range, so didn't hit before the end of the game... I was tired


The game ended, 2560, victory by score going to the Chatter. The score mostly came from a 200k econ, compared to Mob's 187k. Mob was a 4.75 econ, as I had guessed, but not quite perfectly built out on factories. The damage sustained in the final years ensured I came out ahead. Shadow was a lot weaker than we'd guessed, with a 3.15 econ, it turns out he wasn't the threat we thought. It's interesting to wonder what would've happened if we'd known the true state of his economy... A huge war between Mob and Chatter probably, and perhaps a chance for Shadow to come out on top after all

The Chatter
Planets: 66
Starbases: 61
Unarmed: 1009
Escort: 1583
Capital: 1537
Tech: 119
Resources: 200k
Score: 8263
Rank: 1

Attached is a map of the final turn, 2560, to give some indication of the territories at the very end.


EDIT: Spell check took nearly as long as writing it... Razz

EDIT2: Added a couple of maps, for Altruist Razz
  • Attachment: 2560.jpg
    (Size: 211.63KB, Downloaded 338 times)
  • Attachment: 2400.jpg
    (Size: 52.31KB, Downloaded 672 times)


[Updated on: Fri, 18 June 2010 13:08]

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Re: Glacier III... Thu, 17 June 2010 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
Dogthinkers wrote on Thu, 17 June 2010 05:50

DANGER! LONG POST FOLLOWS! READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL / RISK OF BOREDOM.


Not at all.
A pleasure to read. With only some maps missing.

And once again it fills me, the "diplomatically challenged", with horror how huge a role diplomacy played even in an all-out-enemy-no-NAPs-game.

That was a rocking 9-month-game, wasn't it? Probably the later turns took ages? But no dropouts? Respect!

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Re: Glacier III... Thu, 17 June 2010 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Altruist wrote on Fri, 18 June 2010 01:49

Dogthinkers wrote on Thu, 17 June 2010 05:50

DANGER! LONG POST FOLLOWS! READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL / RISK OF BOREDOM.


Not at all.
A pleasure to read. With only some maps missing.


Gah! Think how long it took you to read it... Now think how long it took me to write it... And you want illustrations? Shocked

EDIT: just for you... I attached two images (the small one is embedded at the 2401 mark, the larger one you'll have to download if you want to see it.)

Quote:

And once again it fills me, the "diplomatically challenged", with horror how huge a role diplomacy played even in an all-out-enemy-no-NAPs-game.


The scenario encouraged diplomacy - just so long as it was the cut-throat-watch-your-back-because-everyone-else-is-and-not- in-a-nice-way variety.

Hit over head

Many races were assaulted in what they'd considered to be safe (or even inter-settled) borders... And fair enough too - since the game rule invalidated any promises not to. It took me a while to grasp what the host meant, but I think you could almost describe it as a 'no whinging' rule. If it was his goal, it certainly succeeded in creating a very dynamic game, with shifting allegiances.

It didn't prevent a little bit of whinging cropping up here and there, as the host will attest. For example, I had a bit of a whinge early on to the host about the Griffin-Protoss 'non-alliance' (their words.) He explained to me again that the rule didn't explicitly prevent this. It just prevented it actually meaning anything - it was to be considered inevitable that there would be a backstab at some point.

It meant that you could only be assured that a race would not move against you, if you ensured there was always a good reason for them NOT to do so. This is another reason SS is so strong in this scenario - nobody knows how much you've kept back in defence, and how much you might've inflitrated into their territory.

Quote:

That was a rocking 9-month-game, wasn't it? Probably the later turns took ages? But no dropouts? Respect!


I don't think anyone dropped until they'd at the very least lost their HW. Many fought to the death. It was definitely a good game in that respect. The last turns indeed took ages, and in a very boring way - huge micro to as perfectly optimise the econ for 2560. It's definitely a relief that the game is over.


[Updated on: Fri, 18 June 2010 13:10]

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Re: Glacier III... Fri, 18 June 2010 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DenHam is currently offline DenHam

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 70
Registered: January 2006
Location: New York

Great report, Dogthinker. You deserve to win. My post game story follows. While your story described how you won despite adversity, my story is more on how I didn't win despite having a good postion.
Hit over head

Denny



The Universe is usually not fair.
That would be too easy.

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Re: Glacier III... Fri, 18 June 2010 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DenHam is currently offline DenHam

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 70
Registered: January 2006
Location: New York

Mob Sob Story
(How I blew it)

Race Design
WM
7 Extra race points to Factories (which gave me 1 extra starting factory)
TT, IS, OBRM, BET
Grav: 0.18 to 5.36g
Temo: -132 to 84C
Rad: Immunity
Griwth: 7%
1/1000 Pop efficiency
25/8/25
Factories Cost 1 less Geranium checked
12/5/25 Mines
Cheap Techs: Prop & Bio
All others set to expensive
Expensive techs start at level 3 checked


Race Design Philosophy:
The idea was that if I had 7% growth and only one immunity, I could afford maximum production, excellent mining, TT and even IS. The 7% growth rate meant that I had to manage population well, but I didn’t see that as a problem. The basic idea with a WM in this game is that Mob starts out with ships that can mark out territory. In tests I found that scouts with QJ5s and one X-ray could defeat incoming colonizer ships because of the WM battle speed advantage. That way I could keep most of my colonists on HW or other 100% worlds until they grow to optimum levels while I marked important planets with X-Ray scouts. As a backup the idea was to have destroyers with Yaks nearby to handle any more significant armed situations. Yaks and DDs started out expensive but with the WM advantage I could always build a few.

Early Turns: (2400-2420)
The first priority was to build factories before researching propulsion and to send out early scouts. By 2420 I had factories on my HW at my maximum for my current population. I discovered about 6 very good new worlds (Aqua, Jerolyn, X-ray and Kalamazoo and had staked out most of them with warships and sending ships to the rest shortly. I was able to reach Prop 5 but I needed one more prop to allow warp 7 engines at a reasonable cost. I also found that I was surrounded by IT races: Cryptic, Shadow, Misie Polarne, Amphibia, and Silver. Amphibia were the closest with their secondary world close to many of the planets I wanted. Fortunately, they were only Temperature Immune and wanted peace. Peace made sense with the Amphibia since they would allow me to take the good planets near them. Later, I even suggested to the Amphibia some planets that would be good for them but not so good for me. I was also ready to begin building colonizer ships. (Score at 2420 3rd Place)

2420 -2440
Expansion is going well as planned. My territory markers and early DDs are winning most every battle and I am expanding well.
2440 Score: 2434 Resources, 191 = 3rd Place

2441- 2460
Met 2 MTs and got 10 tech advances + new part. The Mob start a war against the Misie Polarne. They have a large territory with a lot of good planets in it and the corner. The corner is important for the Mob because we don’t have minefields. 2460 Score: 7354 Res, 442 = 2nd Place

2461-2475
The Misie Polarne are being defeated. Their HW base was destroyed in 2472 and they lost a crucial battle in 2473. Although they had superior numbers in the 2473 battle and several other battles was that the MP used a heavier range 1 ship against my lighter range 2 ships.
2476 Score: 14k Res, 783 = 1st Place

2476 – 2499
2479 Shadow say they are also attacking Misie Polarne and ask for Saturn saying that they are attacking there. My ships are on the way to Saturn and would arrive next turn. I allow Shadow to take Saturn in return the Shadow allow me to take Status. Status is a poor yellow for me but the Shadow gave it to me in hopes that I could help them against the Xeelee. The next turn I realize that the Shadow forces arrive at the same time my forces were to arrive and that the Shadow were not attacking the Misie Polarne. They were just grabbing worlds from a former friend who gave up. Except for the planets that the Shadow took over I took over the remaining MP Planets. I met another MT and got 9 more tech levels.

I was soon moving ships to the East to attack the Silver. I was going right for their HW of 555-1212. When I got there, I was surprised to see that the Chatter had already attacked it and in fact were also at other Silver planets. I also didn’t want an SS neighbor there. I attacked.

That is when I made a big mistake. I had a friend fill in for me while I was away skiing. My mistake was that I didn’t tell the temporary player: (1) I hadn’t really taken out a big Chatter fleet and he better check before attacking and (2) Go over the rules carefully. It is difficult to take over another race and no matter how good the player is. It is my mistake that I didn’t give him enough information. The new player lost a couple of major battles. He also built a defensive sapper fleet which he calculated could enable u to hold X-Ray but built them with illegal shields. The fleet had to be scrapped. I also made another mistake. The tech MT was scheduled to go right through my territory. I waited instead of meeting it early. The MT changed direction and I missed it. The mob moved from 1st place to 2nd place. I then lost X-Ray

Score at 2499: 40K res; 1838 = 2nd place.

2501 on:
2501 – The Chatter offer peace so we can combine and attack the Protoss. The Protoss have more planets than anyone else and seem to be really threatening. I was concerned that if we didn’t stop them it could be trouble. I wanted to stop them. While I believed that I had a bigger build rate I would probably lose at least one more planet before I could attack. I was in first place when I agreed to peace.

Then I attacked the Amphibia. Although I valued their friendship, they had terrible technology were not producing anything of value. As my TT technology improved their planets looked more and more attractive, especially their HW. They were beaten quickly. I gave the Shadow La Te Da because I can’t get there fast enough to grab it first and to keep the Shadow on friendly turns. Eventually I give the Chatter the minerals off of two planets, to appease them.

I move from 1st to 4th and back up again without major gains or losses. It is an indication on how close the first 4 positions are. The war with the Protoss went well, especially since at first since the Protoss were concentrating on Chatter. The Chatter were sweeping mines near Kan an old HW that was closer to my forces and a planet next on my list to attack. I let the Chatter have it (another mistake). The Chatter say that if I didn’t it would likely always be an issue of contention between us but introspect that would have been OK.

After taking the Protoss worlds of Celery and Murat I am cut off from taking the Protoss worlds in the East because the Chatter are already there. Also at this stage I doubt if I can adequately develop any additional worlds in the time remaining. I was getting increasingly concerned about the Chatter since they had by far the best weapon technology. The Shadow said they would help against the Chatter if they could defeat the Griffin. Consequently, I attacked the Griffin. My problem is that most of my forces were in my main Northern area. I was sitting in the middle between the two other largest races and no NAP were allowed. I could not afford to have a large fleet away from gates.

The Griffins contacted me and asked for some sort of truce. I agreed to a truce if I could keep the two worlds I attacked. There wasn’t time enough to utilize any additional Griffin planets before the end. I just couldn’t move enough colonists south.

The end came quickly. At 2552 I began to calculate how many colonists I would have and how many factories that I could build and how much Geranium it would take. It turns out that most of my Geranium was needed. My deep scanners are not as good as the Chatter. The Chatter contact me to tell me that the Shadow have a larger population and unless they are attacked they will win. The Shadow tell me that the Chatter are number 1. I delay as much as possible and then choose to attack the Shadow. It was a mistake but I don’t believe that I had enough forces to make much of a difference with the score. Besides, I didn’t know who to believe. I was number 1 at that point.

Denny



The Universe is usually not fair.
That would be too easy.

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Re: Glacier III... Fri, 18 June 2010 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 22:50

... went out with a fizzle!


Went out in a fizzle? Your race was an SS, and your main opponent was a SD, errr... a IS....errr....what! your opponent was a WM? and you say the game went out with a fizzle because you sat and built factories? LOL.

Well, from the Xeelee perspective, this game was a real nut cracker. I had a really poor planet draw. The first 4 planets scouted were red to me. Shadows secondary was <150ly away, and I later learned that 2 HW's and another secondary was close. On top of that, the mins on my green planets were pathetic. Several had <20% starting metal.

I started SW of the middle, not close enough to have an edge. Lyrans to my South, Dustmites to my West, Protos to my East Griffin SE, Cryptic to my NE, and Shadow to my NW. The Mob above the Cryptic. I didn't know it then, but the starting positions were disproportionately tight in the SW quadrant, and pretty sparse in the NW.

So, my start was pretty bad. The worst by far in the Glacier series. However, that wasn't the killer. What killed me was the MT's. Every time I thought I might get a leg up in tech, an MT came through just north of me. If I ever host another Glacier, it will not have random events. The MT's in this game were much to unbalancing. Much more so than the other Glaciers. Once again, I'd love to rewrite the game, and add check boxes to everything. "Would you like the MT to give out tech? NO!".

A couple more thoughts.

I knew the Shadow was gunning for me when he kept making excuses to get in a war with me. The clincher was his insistence that the Cryptic HW (Kan) was his, after the Cryptic were defeated. He made no move to grab it, tho. After +10 turns, with me watching the Protos advance adjacent to it, and start sending ships to Kan, I had to do something. So I grabbed it before the Protos could. The Shadow instantly declared war, and gave the Protos the Cryptic HW while he attacked me. I knew I was doomed already, but that was the clincher. Obviously the Shadow wanted me dead more than anything else.

I knew I wasn't gonna last without help of some sort, so I never considered attacking the Lyrans. He was already getting mauled by the Griffin and Protos, and it would have just made my position worse to fight the Lyrans.

Also, it was apparent that the Dust Mites player was sort of inexperienced, so I decided not to attack him. I really didn't want to screw up his game, knowing it wouldn't help me much. Although that changed very quickly, after the Shadow threw him to the wolves (talking him into attacking me, then attacking him after I started taking his worlds). I am betting he won't trust the Shadow again. Cut throat indeed. By far the best backstab of the game! Kudos to the Shadow! Much better than then the backstab to the Cryptic. Wink

DenHam wrote on Fri, 18 June 2010 21:08

Mob Sob Story
(How I blew it)

I delay as much as possible and then choose to attack the Shadow. It was a mistake but I don’t believe that I had enough forces to make much of a difference with the score. Besides, I didn’t know who to believe. I was number 1 at that point.

Denny


My last play of the game was snubbed by the Mob. This was right after the Protos had taken a few of my worlds, and I killed their fleet at Hal IIRC (I don't think anyone realized I did that). I wasn't concerned with the planet losses, as it exposed the Protos to more enemies fixated on thinking he was too powerful, and gave me the pop to restart my industry on mineral rich Dustmite planets! Woot!

This happened around 2500, while I was mowing through the Dustmites. I had calculated that I could hold off the Griffin and Protos, while I waged war with the Shadow, if the Mob would just attack the Shadow all out from the other side. From 2 angles it stood about a 80% chance of working by my thoughts. The Chatter would have been stuck going it alone against the Protos (an easy win for the Chatter, but he would be overly cautious). Doubtful the Chatter would have attacked the Mob, leaving the Protos to grow, not realizing that the Protos were rethinking his attack strategies.

I didn't push Denny hard for a Shadow campaign, as I was pretty sure he wouldn't go for it. I am certainly surprised he didn't, after reading his gripes about the Shadow...All that Shadow territory would have given him a real boost, and the game IMO.

From the moment the Mob said no, I was pretty sure the Chatter would win.

-Matt

P.S. Good Game! See you guys in another life.






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Re: Glacier III... Sat, 19 June 2010 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DenHam is currently offline DenHam

 
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DenHam wrote on Fri, 18 June 2010 22:08


25/8/25


I meant 15/8/25, of course. If I could have had 25/8/25, I would have won.

Denny




The Universe is usually not fair.
That would be too easy.

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Re: Glacier III... Sat, 19 June 2010 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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mlaub wrote on Sat, 19 June 2010 13:29

Dogthinkers wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 22:50

... went out with a fizzle!


Went out in a fizzle? Your race was an SS, and your main opponent was a SD, errr... a IS....errr....what! your opponent was a WM? and you say the game went out with a fizzle because you sat and built factories? LOL.


Confused2

I already explained this. In the late game, I always thought the player to beat was going to be the Shadow. Getting ahead of Mob was always just a question of infiltrating enough LBU bombers, which I did.

It's no good messing up growth to fight some players, only to not have enough colonists to win on score against a player that you can't reach in time. This is a problem with score-win in a large size universe. It was an interesting, but unspectacular end, from my perspective.

As I already mentioned, if Mob and I had known Shadow's maximum resources were only 3.15 per 1000 colonists, then the final decade would've probably been a lot more lethal for us both. But we didn't. And it wasn't.

Quote:

This happened around 2500, while I was mowing through the Dustmites. I had calculated that I could hold off the Griffin and Protos, while I waged war with the Shadow, if the Mob would just attack the Shadow all out from the other side. From 2 angles it stood about a 80% chance of working by my thoughts. The Chatter would have been stuck going it alone against the Protos (an easy win for the Chatter, but he would be overly cautious). Doubtful the Chatter would have attacked the Mob, leaving the Protos to grow, not realizing that the Protos were rethinking his attack strategies.


I'm not sure what you mean by saying I would've been overly cautious. I only moved to a defensive strategy very late in the game, and even then it was my aggressive moves against Shadow that shook up the game in the last decade.

If Mob had gone to war with Shadow when you wanted him to, I certainly would've attacked the Protoss alone, and on the same timeline. If Mob had declined to fight either, then I probably would've attacked him instead. Whatever I did though, it would be fast - I had a tech lead over everyone, and I knew it.

If you just mean that I would've attacked, but progressed too slowly out of extra caution... No, an absence of Mob attacking on his flank would not have changed my tactics in the sightest. If anything I would've gone a little harder. You don't attack an AR slowly if you're low on minerals - it's race against time to kill his production before he catches up on fleet strength.

Quote:

The MT's in this game were much to unbalancing. Much more so than the other Glaciers. Once again, I'd love to rewrite the game, and add check boxes to everything. "Would you like the MT to give out tech? NO!"


Oh yes! They were crazy. Slow+expensive tech sure made them a lot more valuable. I felt pretty doomed when I saw Zalamel catch one just as I was turning the tide of our war (thankfully, I think that one was the Engima rather than tech.)

As SS, I certainly could've lived without the MT toys too though, I can't say I was too happy to see the MPS and the Langston. I'm always happy to use the Enigma though, and that got me to warp10 quite a lot earlier than expected...


[Updated on: Sat, 19 June 2010 22:28]

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Re: Glacier III... Sun, 20 June 2010 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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Quote:

Confused2

I already explained this. In the late game, I always thought the player to beat was going to be the Shadow.


Well, yes, sort of, but you said that from the fleets you sent through the wormhole, you only used "tiny fleets" from them. No explanation of why the rest of your ships fled. Or why you didn't pursue this action sooner...(remembering when you were grabbing metal from my worlds Smile)

Just curious.

Quote:

This happened around 2500....


Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by saying I would've been overly cautious. I only moved to a defensive strategy very late in the game, and even then it was my aggressive moves against Shadow that shook up the game in the last decade.




I said overly cautious, because the Protos had MPS and Langston Shell. On BB's that is pretty good stealth, so you would have had to be careful to make sure of his fleet strength (I know I would). Tough to do if you are running full speed through someones empire.

I have never seen you attack without due consideration of the forces against you. Hence, you would proceed with caution.

Even more so if it was just you against the Protos. Am I wrong?

-Matt



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Re: Glacier III... Sun, 20 June 2010 09:56 Go to previous message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
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mlaub wrote on Sun, 20 June 2010 15:38

Well, yes, sort of, but you said that from the fleets you sent through the wormhole, you only used "tiny fleets" from them. No explanation of why the rest of your ships fled. Or why you didn't pursue this action sooner...(remembering when you were grabbing metal from my worlds Smile)


Ahh, right. Mob built b17 bombers along the border at his moment, so I dropped the fleet back through the wormhole while I waited to confirm where the bombers were heading. Shadow had also gated in a fleet more than big enough to take on the fleet I had sent through, so it made more sense to infiltrate rather than take him head on, anyway. I then blundered and sent the fleet to the wormhole's coordinates instead of the wormhole, when I wanted to send it back to Shadow. After that error it was too late for it to hit Shadow, so it tried its luck against Mob (but was also too late to really have any impact on him.)

The delay in my beginning to attack Shadow, was the time it took for my fleets to limp over from attacking Protoss. I think it took 5 years to bring my largest fleet from near Cancer, where I ceased my assault on Protoss, back up past the new gate at Kan (most of these ships didn't actually visit the world, but moved directly on towards Shadow.) During this time, I also needed to protect against Mob, who was not at war with anyone, and had mine sweepers stationed along our entire border, and stacks of DNs scattered around (some in orbit, some failing to hide in open space Wink

Quote:

I said overly cautious, because the Protos had MPS and Langston Shell. On BB's that is pretty good stealth, so you would have had to be careful to make sure of his fleet strength (I know I would). Tough to do if you are running full speed through someones empire.


I had a lot of 98% galleons with great penscans at this point, so spotting his fleets was really not a problem. I also used safe but extremely aggressive tactics - I'd often place a big fleet in reach of a number of worlds, then send the big fleet to one, and snipers to the rest. The result was usually a lot of dead death stars, since Protoss couldn't afford to risk losing his fleet. Sometimes I'd lose a sniper fleet (about 20 torp BBs,) but that's a small price to pay.

It's also easy to be less cautious when you are sure your opponent can't see a fleet - in that case even small fleets can attack without cover. I used this technique to deal with the more isolated worlds - saving my big fleets to help me smash through clusters of worlds.

Quote:

I have never seen you attack without due consideration of the forces against you. Hence, you would proceed with caution.


There's caution, and there's paralysis. I thought perhaps you meant the latter. Of course I would always consider what was against me, but I took lots of controlled risks this game.

Quote:

Even more so if it was just you against the Protos. Am I wrong?


Yep Surprised

Having Mob on his flank really didn't change my tactics in the slightest. I could actually argue that it slowed me down a little, as I had to take a less efficient path in order to take Kan before he did. Before the war, I thought Mob's help would be essential. In practice, Protoss' fleet grew much more slowly than expected. Either he tried to catch up on tech, or he didn't have enough miners.



Oh, and wow, did I just read that it was Kan that Shadow claimed? That would've been quite a stretch for him, on the far side of the universe. I suspect that if he had taken that, he might've found himself at war with Mob a lot sooner.


[Updated on: Sun, 20 June 2010 10:02]

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