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Questions about -f IT Wed, 24 February 2010 12:57 Go to next message
Sanherib is currently offline Sanherib

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 13
Registered: February 2010
Location: Deutschland
I'm going in duel with an expert.So i'm a noob. I know i will going to loose. But i don't wanna loose without trying a hard fight.

My first plan was going with QS IT. But i think twice. Maybe
with -f IT i will do better.

Here the Race in by my first planing.

IT

ISB,NRSE,OBRM,RS

19% PGR

grav: immun
temp: -76 to 140
rad: 55 - 85

1/5 overal

fabs: 5/25/5
mines 10/3/14

tech:
weap,con,el cheap, energie normal, rest expensiv

some coments and my Questions

ISB: i don't wanna go with that. Even playing IT. Dock's are much cheaper than Stations

NRSE: I'm not a friend of this LRT. But playing IT. Maybe it will do it.More important for this choice: I will not have the time to resarch prob more than Level 7.And I learned i don't need to use the terrible IS 10. AD8 an BBS will do it. IFE would be fine. But i don't have the points, because i'm never taking NAS in this special Game.

But i'm in doubt about grabing planets with just NRSE and prob expensiv. I have to go the first 20 years or so just warp 7. Or would it be better to resarch first of all AD8? And put this engine an my MF's? Warp 8 would be much better than Warp 7. But with con cheap an prob expensiv maybe it will be better to resarch at first LF.And then i can put the AD8 on that Special LF's the must travel in open space.The other one get just QJ5.No Brainer.

But doing so, means a long time just going warp 7 . Have you some tipps?

OBRM/RS no brainer

So my questions about the hab:

What it better wit one immune? The other fields are all equal.
Or 1 wide and one field narrow?

It seems to me: With all equal you get more planets. With one narrow and one wide the planets are better. But not so much better.Is this true? So maybe i should go all equal, for having more planets.

All other settings i don't wanna change. Maybe 1 or 2 mines more - if i find the points for that.


...



[Updated on: Wed, 24 February 2010 13:09]

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Re: Questions about -f IT Wed, 24 February 2010 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Sanherib wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 18:57

I'm going in duel with an expert.So i'm a noob. I know i will going to loose. But i don't wanna loose without trying a hard fight.

Lurking

Wink

You won't necessarily loose, if you are familiar with the basics (boosters, sweepers, tech breakpoints, ...) and I think you are, at least your races are quite ok, you make a good chance, it also will depend for a good deal on luck (hab draw).
My SS play is very rusty (must have been +5 years since I played one) and remember the point was more or less to proof -f SS is weak Wink but can be played differently than you are used to ...

mch


[Updated on: Wed, 24 February 2010 16:04]

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Re: Questions about -f IT Wed, 24 February 2010 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

IT should use Fuel mizer and 3 fuel pods on a Privateers(Travels warp 9 always). Build up your planets population 100,000 pop above the 25% mark so that when you put about 100,000 pop and minerals in 5 privateers, for a fort with gate. Your planet should be left with 25% pop hold.

Ok you colonized, unloaded pop and mins, a fort with gate should be up no later than two years.

Right before this gate is up for a Factory IT build the privs with cargo pods for transferring pop and minerals threw gates. But sense your -F and dont need a lot of Germ then you could probably build medium freighters if that fits your style.

So now fill that planet up to 25%.(of course im assuming its a breeder.)

Dont make the mistake of sending more pop the following year threw space. Always get gate up in two years then send pop in.

I hope this was understandable, feel free to ask questions here or in PM.




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Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sanherib is currently offline Sanherib

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 13
Registered: February 2010
Location: Deutschland
@ Slimdragon

Can you explain me this more?

I'm playing IT at the Start like any other Race. Just sending every year 50 000 people to a other planet. Later on i will send 100 000 Pop and enough minerals to every Planet i will grab. But right at the start? I thought is important to grab planets first. So i send 50 000 People to a good planet east of my homeworld. 50 000 People to a planet west of my HW.... And then i take a look every year on my new planets. And if a planet able do build a gate in one year i will do it.

Another point. In the first years my HW will have no minerals to send. Even with -f. Then they need all for shipbuilding. Privaters are expensiv in Iron. MF's with FM don't do the job well. To short range. Building lot of Boosters for the MF's will cost more res/minerals then building just privaters. Except i have no IFE. With DLL 7 is better to build MF's with -f, then you have to go Warp 7 with Privaters to. So i save the iron.

And the last point: I wait until the breeders have the terraforming already done before start shipbuilding there. That means in the most cases: I have to wait until the breeders reach 50% capacity. Because the HW alone is not able to build all the ships i would need exporting pob from the breeders earlyer. Not with a -f race. So do you think is better not to wait until terraforming is done before start shipbuilding at the breeders?

@Micha

yes the -f SS will be a poor -f. But maybe not in your Hand. In Fact: I'm afraid to play against SS. If you will get this dangerous 98% cloaked BBS.....

It will be a Nightmare for me.

And Last but not least:

What is about my two Questions?

1.I still don't know what is the best way of playing IT with just NSRE and con cheap but prob expensiv. Resarch at first ADD8 ( even with prop expensiv) and put this engine on the MF's?
Becausw warp 8 is much better then warp 7. Or resarch at first LF's. And just going warp 7 with that ships?

2. What about the hab with one immune? Is it better to have the other two fi
...



[Updated on: Thu, 25 February 2010 08:55]

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
I know that you've said you are very resistant to taking IFE and NAS, but let me urge you to reconsider and testbed a race with both. NAS seems like a big risk with not being able to penscan planets to see if your enemy is concentrating, but since you are playing against an SS this is a problem even with penscans and the doubled deep space scan range from NAS can be a life saver against an SS. You do need to put cheap sacrificial scouts in orbit of planets to force the enemy to go through DS instead of planet hopping, but you need chaff anyway. Plus the RW points are really good.

IFE allows you to take Prop expensive and still get out the gate (pun intended) in a hurry as you will not have to research Prop at all to get to the Any/300 gate and the FM engine is a really amazing thing.

Here's my suggestion:
LRT - IFE, ISB, NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS (I know, this is too many LRTs to be optimal, but I believe that they are all valuable enough to be worth 13 points to take RS.)

Hab - Grav:Imm; Temp: -124 to 140; Rad: 64 to 92 (this is wide centered and narrow right) 1 in 5 hab.

PGR - 18%

Resources - 1 per 1,000 pop
Fac - 5/25/5 no G box
Mine - 10/3/14

En/Con/Weap cheap; El normal; Prop/Bio exp.

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Sanherib wrote on Thu, 25 February 2010 08:15

@ Slimdragon

Can you explain me this more?

I'm playing IT at the Start like any other Race. Just sending every year 50 000 people to a other planet. Later on i will send 100 000 Pop and enough minerals to every Planet i will grab. But right at the start? I thought is important to grab planets first. So i send 50 000 People to a good planet east of my homeworld. 50 000 People to a planet west of my HW.... And then i take a look every year on my new planets. And if a planet able do build a gate in one year i will do it.

IT isnt like any other Race.It is important to travel at warp 9 at all times to get gate, then use gate.Fuel mizer is your best friend. (to send with fleet about 35,30, 30 of each minenerals, I forgot exact number but your colony ship when colonized should provide the rest of the mins to get a fort with gate up.)
Getting there a year sooner means your pop is working giving resources. By putting 100,000 out, every other year your HW is using more factories every other year I believe.

Once you got gate up on this Big fat Breeder world you send more pop threw gate. Now you have two breeders instead of one. Because of the gates your able to take a lot of ground faster than anyone else. More breeders the better.
If you dont see any breeders forawhile put only 100 to 200k pop on your lower class planets to get it going until you do find better worlds.



Another point. In the first years my HW will have no minerals to send. Even with -f. Then they need all for shipbuilding. Privaters are expensiv in Iron. MF's with FM don't do the job well. To short range. Building lot of Boosters for the MF's will cost more res/minerals then building just privaters. Except i have no IFE. With DLL 7 is better to build MF's with -f, then you have to go Warp 7 with Privaters to. So i save the iron.

And the last point: I wait until the breeders have the terraforming already done before start shipbuilding there. That means in the most cases: I have to wait u
...




......
Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
perrindom is currently offline perrindom

 

Messages: 129
Registered: August 2005
Location: Denmark
Having played -F IT in most of the duels for 3 years, here's what I can chip in:

* In my opinion, the fuel-mizer is an integral part of a QS race (except HE with its settler's delight) - and -F planet grabbers in general. Likewise, you should be able to dash forward from the start without too much research first.
* Don't just have focus on grabbing your own planets. A planet denied to the enemy has the same value (if you know his hab and it different from yours, which requires intensive early scouting).
* MFs with fuel mizer and fuel pod will do just fine for an -F IT, and take you very far if you provide a little boost with either one PVT or some DDs.
* If you really play -F IT agressively, your first research decision will be when to get con8 for saving iron on transports (and be close to CCs as a bonus). As -F IT I only make a very few PVTs solely for booster purpose, and rely completely on MFs and LFs.
* Habitats: just make sure that if you want to play quick-start, you shouldn't be too dependant on terraforming to build your economy before gaining the decisive edge.

For a fresh example on a -F IT in a duel, se the "Championships 2009 finals" in the "Duelling Club" section. There is some post game talk and a link to the complete game files (being one of the players, just ask if you have questions to why this and that in that game).

/Per

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sanherib is currently offline Sanherib

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 13
Registered: February 2010
Location: Deutschland
Thank you for explaning. I tested this kind of doing colonization. Alway have a gate after two years was really fine.

But on the end in res, i was not better then doing my way. But for strategy seems your kind of doing much better. If my ships
not in open space the can not attack from the enemy. So i will do so.

So i have a new question.

Why i need this one immune hab?

By testing IT -f with TT and just 1/3 normal hab i was realy surprised to see that this kind of -f was doing much better than the 1/5 one immun race.

I simply get lots of green planets more. With 1/5 immune ( one wide/ one narrow ) there is alway the danger to have an realy bad hab draw. With 1/3 all wide not. It also gives more points. And by going with NAS is fine to be able to resarch the DNS Scanner easy and early on.

There was no problem with popgrowth because i had not only more green Planets then using the 1 immune hab - i had more good planets to. I just have to resarch bio 6 and a lot of this turn to 80 + planets. Just a little bit Terraformig.

And with TT terraforming is easy with just 70 res.

I had at year 30 more res with the TT race. More Planets and better tech.I was able to build that benchmark cruisers. Even i had resarchd bio.And for the Longrun having 1/3 and TT looks great.

The race was :

IT

TT/ISB/OBRM/NAS/RS

0.31g to 3.20g
-120C to 120 C
18r to 82r

1/3 almoust 1/4

19% PGR

fabs: 5/25/5
mines 10/3/13

tech: weap/con cheap, bio/prob/en normal, elec expensiv

I resarched first of all Add8 before sending any pob. Then i put this one on my MF's. Little bit expensiv. But it was it worth.
I think so.Going warp 8 is much better than warp 7. Then i resarched bio 6. That was enough TT for making more Breeders i had with that immune hab. And fine to: i could put the DNS Scanner an some scout's. With NAS i had a good look about the universe from that time. Without resarching any electronics.

Than i resarched con to 8.And then weap 10. After this energy to 6 and prob to 9.

At y
...



[Updated on: Thu, 25 February 2010 15:47]

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slimdrag00n is currently offline slimdrag00n

 
Lieutenant
Helped track down one or more Stars bugs

Messages: 630
Registered: January 2009
Location: new york -5

Sanherib wrote on Thu, 25 February 2010 15:31

Thank you for explaning. I tested this kind of doing colonization. Alway have a gate after two years was really fine.
But on the end in res, i was not better then doing my way. But for strategy seems your kind of doing much better. If my ships
not in open space the can not attack from the enemy. So i will do so.

Its one thing to do a test against no one and another against a human. If you colonized the way you did before with 50,000 or 100,000 i would pop drop every one of your planets I came across, keep them for my self or put a gate up my self to make sure you couldnt get your planet back. You should have more resources because you should be able to gate more pop to breeders instantly with each new breeder quickly dishing out another 50,000 pop every year. Maybe it takes practice, it works for me as Factory race. Dont see why it should be much different.


So i have a new question.

Why i need this one immune hab?

By testing IT -f with TT and just 1/3 normal hab i was realy surprised to see that this kind of -f was doing much better than the 1/5 one immun race.

Never really used TT, are you sure you need it? how much bio you really gonna research in a game? probably wont go passed bio 10.
Well if you get a 1 immune you get way more breeders and dont have to spend lots of resources and time terraforming doing TT Bio research. So you are getting more pop out every year increasing your resources.


I simply get lots of green planest more. With 1/5 immune ( one wide/ one narrow ) there is alway the danger to have an realy bad hab draw. With 1/3 all wide not. It also gives more points. And by going with NAS is fine to be able to resarch the DNS Scanner easy and early on.

1/5 you get better growth plus with terraforming you'll soon have 1/3 easily. immunity is expensive but its nice, depends on playing style. The DNS I never used. I use to take NAS but you really cant afford to not have it if your opponent has penscans, you'll always be blind meanwh
...




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Ranked games: 8-1
Recently won the game Knife Fight.
Looking for a practice duel.
.......

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Re: Questions about -f IT Thu, 25 February 2010 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sanherib is currently offline Sanherib

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 13
Registered: February 2010
Location: Deutschland
Hmm. I know all this arguments for immuntiy. But i had this Test.

And i was much better with that TT Race. And sure.I will be probably not have a chance to resarch bio more than 13. But in my experince was that 1/3 all wide hab much better than the immunty hab. Even i had only bio 9. Lots of green Plantes that could be turn to 80+.

With that immunity i had some realy good green Planets. Sure. But not enough.The most of this nice Green Planets was far away. In the otherside of the Universe. OK it was a bad hab draw.But thats my Point. Having immunty means not much green Planets but better green Planets. But what will you do if you don't have luck and all this nice Planets are in the Otherside of the Galaxy? With that 1/3 you never will have so a bad hab draw.Because there are lots of green planets in every corner.

Ok i had a lot of yellow Planets with that immunty hab the could turn from -3 or -4 to 80+ nearby. But i dont think that's better then lots of green Planets nearby with value 30+ they can turn to 80+ to. And don't forget with TT Terraforming cost's just 70 res.

Before this Test i was sure having one immunity ist the best for every -f. Except the banned CA. Because that's common sense. But maybe common sense can be wrong.

But i will make a new test for both races. Maybe it was an example of one really bad hab draw against another really god hab draw. And this is why my conclusion are wrong.

NAS OR NOT NAS? Thats really a big Question in my mind. At first i thought never NAS in this special Game. Because of your arguments. The enemy can see where i will concentrate my ships. I will be blind. But vonKreddon makes think me twice. I will playing against SS. So even with penscans I never will have a chance to see the ships in enemys land.

But right. This is my biggest Question. And sorry Micha, that's why i'm not ready with my race creation. NAS OR NOT?



[Updated on: Thu, 25 February 2010 17:46]

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Re: Questions about -f IT Fri, 26 February 2010 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA
Sanherib wrote on Thu, 25 February 2010 16:18


But right. This is my biggest Question. And sorry Micha, that's why i'm not ready with my race creation. NAS OR NOT?


The problem with pen scanners is that you have to research Elec7 or Elec10 to get the first decent one...often time in a duel you take elect exp (like you have selected). So, really, you aren't going to benefit from having the penscans unless you get that high in elec. That's tougher than it seems it should be, when you are looking for res every year.

Of the few duels I have played, I reached pen scanners to late to be really effective, and I would have been better off with NAS and the extra points, IMHO.

If you choose NAS, just make sure you are putting scouts everywhere.

-Matt



Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.

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Re: Questions about -f IT Fri, 26 February 2010 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sanherib is currently offline Sanherib

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 13
Registered: February 2010
Location: Deutschland
Another good Argument for taking NAS.

Now ther are three.

1. Lot of points.

2. Probably i will not have time and res to resarch elec for penscans.

3. against SS i never will see the ships around the planets in enemy land. Penscans or not. But the double range can be useful.

So i will got with NAS.

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Re: Questions about -f IT Sun, 07 March 2010 14:59 Go to previous message
bigcanuknaz is currently offline bigcanuknaz

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year

Messages: 205
Registered: July 2004

Hi Sanherib:

I like your ideas. Your initial race is very close to the ones I play. Don't play your 2nd choice. TT and no immune is too slow for a duel. You won't have the time and resources to do bio research, do terra, and you will have slower growth with no immune.

So: taking about your 1st race:

Do take NAS. In a duel, you just need to be aggressive about pinging worlds in range, and leaving chaff at uninhabited planets. Especially against an SS, you need to ping anyway.

On NRSE. Yes, I always take it as IT. Great points.

On IFE. Depends. The easy way is to take it. The harder way is to leave it and take the points, and find a few more to get your hab down to 1:4 or even 1:3. At 1:3 or a fat 1:4, your planets will be close enuf, so that the DLL7 med frieghter with fuel, plus some scout and/or destroyer booster will travel at warp9. Never send out a fleet slower, so it takes a turn more in space. Always build (or gate in) boosters instead, leave the pop growing and working for a year, and then travel at max warp the next year. To go slower is just a waste.

On the colonization strategy, yes, colonize always with at least enuf pop to get a gate up in 2 years. As soon as possible, I start colonizing with enuf to get a gate up in 1 year. (Remember to take along enuf minerals for the first gate/dock.

Also, of upmost importance is to build *lots and Lots* of scouts. Again, these *always* travel at warp 9. Send them in stacks, and peel off the almost fuel empties to cover planets or to limp back home. Scouting is mega important to find those mega greens and to deny them from your enemy.

You will have a *huge* start advantage on an SS. Use it to flood the map, and hem him in early. use pop drop as a major tool early. Do escort those fleets with fuel DDs. Don't worry too much about looses. Just keep on flooding. Your growth rate will very soon way outstrip his, so you will have pop and resources to spare.

I often go c/w cheap, rest exp for the points. You don't rea
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[Updated on: Sun, 07 March 2010 15:03]

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