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-F SD Sun, 16 March 2003 16:01 Go to next message
freakyboy is currently offline freakyboy

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 583
Registered: November 2002
Location: Where the clowns can't re...

Ok, I've had a think while I've been away from the forum.

I'm back and I got me an idea....

Points about -F races.....
Lots of planets needed
Lots of growth needed
Cheap tech bonus.

So lets exploit them.
Best way to get rapid growth is a rate growth rate (duh) with an immunity or two. Bi-immunity is way to expensive, so Lets take 1 immunity... Gravity in this case since SD start with tech 2 in prop (fuel mizer).
So lets take 18% growth with grav immune.
-64 to 136 temp range
34mr to 84 mr Rad range.

This gives 1/4 planets... 1/3 if you expand one hab bar, and it's 16 clicks from the right edge... so full terraforming can be used.

-F factory settings and 10/3/16 mine settings.

IFE NRSE ORBM and NAS are the LRT's. I would have liked ISB but I can live without it. 17% growth gets me ISB so I can play with it Very Happy


All tech set to normal bar weapons which is cheap.

This race is a fast -F... almost as much as a CA. It's got great end game potential. It's SD so even when you run out of breeding room you can dig in and hold out. The tech settings you can play about with, I left propulsion normal because I don't wanna use the FM forever... but cheap construction would be nice.

the mine settings should give you plenty of minerals too.


I think this is the best performing -F race I've made... excluding the stupid -F CA designed for monkeys..... but I get the feeling someone will come along and rip it apart.

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Re: -F SD Sat, 10 February 2007 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crappicus is currently offline Crappicus

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 83
Registered: May 2004
Location: Canada
Apparently not.


I'm liquefyin'
Blood of lions
I aint dyin'
I am immortal.

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Re: -F SD Sat, 10 February 2007 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

Messages: 1343
Registered: November 2002
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand

Apparently not ripped apart?

in the forum or in a game? Laughing

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Re: -F SD Sat, 10 February 2007 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crappicus is currently offline Crappicus

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 83
Registered: May 2004
Location: Canada
Well, it's been four years, so... the forum.


I'm liquefyin'
Blood of lions
I aint dyin'
I am immortal.

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Re: -F SD Sun, 11 February 2007 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 90
Registered: December 2006
Location: Germany
Better late than never I guess... ;)Not a tear, just a rip maybe.

Ive experimented with -f SD and I think theres two problems with the race:

-18% growth rate seems too low for a -f

-NRSE and no ISB: bad combo, Im pretty sure youd run (well, probably have run by now... Wink ) out of fuel in extended skirmishing. Even light mini-minelayers with only half the pods filled can do only so many warp 9 jumps with the Fuel Mizer. So you either need dirt cheap refuelling spots at the front (-> docks) or ramscoops. Yes, you can add the typical fuel booster to the fleet, but still, it doesnt seem to go with the idea of heavy skirmishing and jumping around endlessly.

I prefer both for my -f designs: the theme is early warfare with light ships so engine costs are a major factor, and for that era docks are totally sufficient for ship building. No need for the expensive bases.

Especially SD are great with docks, just throw one up and start building a layer or two to secure the space grabbed.

Another thing: NAS sucks for the skirmish-type warfare but the points have to come from somewhere and youre probably able to trade minelayers for pen scan ships.

Hope that would have been helpful if posted 4 years ago... Wink

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Re: -F SD Sun, 11 February 2007 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
PRT selection for -F:
SD is most dangerous as HP and/or slower (lowered pgr or immunityless) HG, these setups make most powerful SD-s. Making SD as a QS or -F gives not too bad result, however it is wasteful. If someone wins SD he does it indeed with the bigger power and not with the speed. Nod

General points about -F:
For -F the ISB and cheap construction are more important than IFE. -F likes cheap stuff. LF is cheap, dock is cheap. FM is cheap again but its mostly replaced with DLL7/RHRS earlier than game goes interesting (about the time you have first gates). Very Happy

NRSE is not that bright for -F. -F has plenty of germanium for scoop engines and IS-10 is not cheap to build. Sad

Growth rates below 19% are for 2-immune -Fs ... and for slow guys. Very Happy

10/3/16 mines give lot of minerals (even SD cant burn so lot) typical for -F is 10/3/13 or below. Rolling Eyes

Taking most tech normal indicates hope to win without trading tech? Shocked No one wins without cooperating with others. Nod If no cooperation is however the plan (say ... game condition) then consider GR too. Rolling Eyes If it is not the plan then take mix of cheaps and expensives. Bio should be anyway expensive without TT ... bio 12 is nothing for what to have it cheap.

Example of cooperating SD -F:
SD
ISB, OBRM, NAS, RS
.24 to 1.56; -52 to 132: immune; 19% (1 in 4 within one click to 1 in 3 hab)
1000; 5/25/5 no g; 10/3/13
Weapons, Construction, Propulsion cheap; energy normal; rest expensive

Example of not-cooperating SD -F:
SD
ISB, GR, OBRM, RS
.24 to 1.48; -40 to 136: immune; 19% (1 in 4)
1000; 5/25/5 no g; 10/3/13
Weapons, Construction cheap; energy and propulsion normal; rest expensive.

Anyway i dont like neither of them Laughing
...

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Re: -F SD Fri, 30 October 2009 04:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
... I wonder how a -f WM would go against a -f SD in a duel Wink

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Re: -F SD Mon, 02 November 2009 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scottrick49 is currently offline scottrick49

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 98
Registered: August 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN
the SD would win?


scottrick

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Re: -F SD Mon, 02 November 2009 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1197
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
Soobie wrote on Fri, 30 October 2009 09:55

... I wonder how a -f WM would go against a -f SD in a duel Wink

IMO the moment the WM would lose initiative, he would be lost. WM's planets die too quickly for the WM to afford being on the defensive.

There are 3 windows of opportunity for a WM:
- small window in early game where he gets advantage in weap tech,
- not really a big window after he gets BCs and
- a large one when he gets DNs, but the opposition doesn't have Nubs (yet).

In a duel, played in small normal uni, the WM would not be able to "cash in" the first advantage - his opponent would be too far.
After he'd get BCs he'd still need to move them around, but they gate poorly through 100/250 gates. However they can be built at Docks, and don't have a real counter.
So it looks like the BC hull is the advantage WM would have to use to win, because no sane opponent would give him the peace to get the DNs.

EDIT I've left out the bazooka FF horde "window", because it can't work in detonating minefields. Head Explode

BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Mon, 02 November 2009 12:52]

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Re: -F SD Wed, 11 November 2009 08:30 Go to previous message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
iztok wrote on Tue, 03 November 2009 04:00

Hi!
Soobie wrote on Fri, 30 October 2009 09:55

... I wonder how a -f WM would go against a -f SD in a duel Wink

IMO the moment the WM would lose initiative, he would be lost. WM's planets die too quickly for the WM to afford being on the defensive.

There are 3 windows of opportunity for a WM:
- small window in early game where he gets advantage in weap tech,
- not really a big window after he gets BCs and
- a large one when he gets DNs, but the opposition doesn't have Nubs (yet).

In a duel, played in small normal uni, the WM would not be able to "cash in" the first advantage - his opponent would be too far.
After he'd get BCs he'd still need to move them around, but they gate poorly through 100/250 gates. However they can be built at Docks, and don't have a real counter.
So it looks like the BC hull is the advantage WM would have to use to win, because no sane opponent would give him the peace to get the DNs.

EDIT I've left out the bazooka FF horde "window", because it can't work in detonating minefields. Head Explode

BR, Iztok
Yep ... I'm not aggressive enough to play WM, but that's why I'm thinking WM could have a good crack at it ... because in a duel a better player than I would be able to maintain that pressure that a WM needs to exert.

... and I'm not sure but I'm thinking BCs would handle minefields rather well ...

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