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HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 07:12 Go to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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The SD PRT seems to be one of the most suited to the HP strategy.

So, how would I go about it? Is TT a good idea to go with the higher mine dispensers? Is NRSE good or bad? How about OBRM? What hab range would work well for an HP with TT?

Please help out a poor confused newbie to SD. Laughing

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 13:12

The SD PRT seems to be one of the most suited to the HP strategy.


Minefields are stronger in the beginning than later in game (HP era) when everybody can afford 100s of dirt cheap DDs and 1000s of chaff to crash sweep.
But if you are referring to defending your turf and digging in while growing behind your fields, than yes, SD looks to fit in the category "not too bad for HP". (I'm not fond of HP, not my play style.)

Quote:

So, how would I go about it? Is TT a good idea to go with the higher mine dispensers? Is NRSE good or bad? How about OBRM? What hab range would work well for an HP with TT?

TT fits long game, which fits HP, and bio research fits SD so it's an option.
NRSE is good for HP, ramscoops use more germ.
OBRM ... Except when playing AR I always check it ... HP should have good mines afterall (lots of factories to build) so I would spend more RW points there than going through the trouble of building a remote mining fleet, moving it around and protecting it ...

I doubt I would do anything special with an SD HP compared to other HPs. Just take the usual LRT, econ and mine settings. One tech cheap (weap) and let your high resources crunch you through the ohter levels. If you take TT you might consider lowering bio reseach cost ...
Last advice: take start at 3, helps you a lot since SD starts with few tech levels ... With expensive prop and con you get med freighters from turn one to transport your pop, so you don't need to research and build factories instead (that's the live of a HP), though you will probably like to research privs before committing to heavy transport building because of the very low germ cost ...
(Because of this last part JoaTs make nice HPs. IT's as well, but the latter will benefit less from it's possible explosive expansion through gates with 1/2500 pop.)

mch
...

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
Micha wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 15:59

OBRM ... Except when playing AR I always check it ... HP should have good mines afterall (lots of factories to build) so I would spend more RW points there than going through the trouble of building a remote mining fleet, moving it around and protecting it ...

I disagree here. Like you already said, are the HPs best for long games, and that means huge fleets of Nubians. However just about any decent Nub design requires noticeable amount of germ. That precious yellow stuff the HPs usually lack in late game, because they've used lots of it (my estimate is ~50% of all mined germ in first 60 turns) for factories. So when the Nubs come around, HPs suddenly realize they have enough iron and bora for 2000 nubs, but germ just for 1000. Shocked

Remote miners can fill that gap, esp. because remotes cost significantly more iron than germ, and are usually not for sale in amounts I usually require (about 4 fleets, each 4000 mines equivalent). OFC I'm not speaking about the basic miner. To use that one I'd really need to be deadly desperate, so ineffective it is. Yuck

OTOH I see your point about MM-ing them around. This takes some MM, but revards are still great, if your main problem is not time to spend for a turn, but minerals you lack to win the game. Wink

BR, Iztok

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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iztok wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:14

OTOH I see your point about MM-ing them around. This takes some MM, but revards are still great, if your main problem is not time to spend for a turn, but minerals you lack to win the game. Wink

As SD you'll likely be spending your time somewhere else. Wink

SD is also one of the races that have it a bit harder in one area when it comes to remote mining: ship designs. SD usually spends at least 2 slots on MLs (one standard for offensive purposes, one speed/heavy for defense, possibly a third cloaked), a remote miner will take away another ...

Related to remote mining, less to SD, you may find an ally, one pretty compatible in hab, points in remote mining are a bit wasted ...

mch

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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Slightly too general to be on topic, but I almost always take OBRM both because of not wanting the additional MM headache of producing, moving, and protecting RM fleets and the mined minerals, but also because I really like the additional 10% pop per planet. Not only does that increase the capacity and resources per planet, it effectively increases the growth rate.

SDs make good HPs, but they also make good -f as they can go out and grab a lot of territory early. They also, as has been noted in the How to Defeat a -f thread, work well against -fs because they can prevent early expansion.

I love SD, can you tell?

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Quote:

As SD you'll likely be spending your time somewhere else.

In my current game where I'm running two fleets of remotes, is the time needed to distribute mined minerals about 5 minutes per turn. When I'm getting ready to move remotes to another planet, then maybe 10 minutes. That's negligible compared to about 2 hours I spend for the rest of my turn.

Quote:

ship design slots

You have a point here. But if you suspect the minerals will be the game deciding factor, then you'll probably "sacrifice" a slot for additional x*100MTs of each mineral. With 4 fleets of remotes I can get 100 MT from 6 average 50 MC planets in 20 turns. And the equation is about such: each MT is 4 nubs.

Quote:

vonKreedon
I almost always take OBRM

Don't get me wrong: OBRM is excellent for fast games. But after turn 100 it doesn't help much, because you have lots of resources, but only the minerals you've dug out of your planets. In long (epic?) games that's not enough, especially if the other guy's running remote miners. Sad

BR, Iztok

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
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My strategy if we get into the epic late game is a combination of:
1 - Trade for RBs
2 - Colonize worlds that my enemies are RMing so that I can grab those minerals
3 - Always have a lot of cargo capacity with my main fleets so that I can grab deep space salvage as it happens
4 - Hope for the Alien Miner Razz

Certainly there have been times when I get mineral bound, but generally not so much or bad relative to the other players that it decides the game.

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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To clarify, though, if I have TT eventually-live-anywhere hab, I'd be mad to not pick OBRM. Right?

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Re: HP SD Wed, 04 February 2009 17:10 Go to previous message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
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Hi!
magic9mushroom wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 22:38

if I have TT eventually-live-anywhere hab, I'd be mad to not pick OBRM. Right?

True, if you're a CA, or have available 30 Orbital Adjusters improving your planets. In reality you can count on about TT-20 to be the last usefull terra tech, because HP or not, those red planets that will turn yellow with TT-20 will take another 30 or so turns to fully terraform. You'll simply not have that time, because you'll need those planets to do research, or build chaff, minelayers, sweepers, or whatever you'll need at that time more desperately than another green planet in 30 turns.

BR, Iztok

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