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Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sat, 10 January 2009 08:33 Go to next message
PaulCr

 
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I'm working on a utility to generate a .hst file from .xy, .m? and .h? files, it will only include information you actually have, ie unseen worlds will have 50 habs and 100 minerals concentrations, enemy hulls you don't know the design for will have an empty hull with a QJ5 engine, if there is info in the .m files that can't be seen in game such as what the MT is giving then it will use a default value rather then the one in the files, ie I will be setting all MTs to give tech, enemy races will have a default race design. You will be able to edit things yourself to give a best guess, ie set the design of unseen ships to what you think it is likely to be, set enemy PRTS etc.

The utility is aimed for being able to create a testbed for a current game with the info you currently know, mainly for trying out complex battles but I am sure there are other uses which is why I'm posting this message now so I can get opinions on whether or not anyone can see any downside in distributing the program when it is finished. I can't see any, with a lot of work you could create an identical testbed anyway.

I'm currently at the stage of being able to generate a valid .hst file with your race and default races for the remaining players, your occupied planets with the rest set to default values and your ship designs. I also have enough info already to know that I'll be able to successfully add fleets to it in the next build.

The ultimate intention is to be able to generate an actual server which would be able to fix bugs and possibly have a config file for individual games that allows you to modify some settings that don't effect the client, ie stopping AR pop dying, removing CA deep terraforming, allowing neutrals to pass through minefields etc, the utility is an intermediate step that I think would be useful for players which is why I'm trying to get opinions on publishing it when it is finished.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sat, 10 January 2009 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DenHam is currently offline DenHam

 
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Any chance that this test bed system will pick up damage from the M files and/or allow you to add damage to ships before testing?


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That would be too easy.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sat, 10 January 2009 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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DenHam wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 00:38

Any chance that this test bed system will pick up damage from the M files and/or allow you to add damage to ships before testing?

It will automatically pick up your damage since you know that, opponents damage isn't visible or at least I can't see it so I won't include that even if it is in the MFile although from memory I'm sure it wasn't. If you had a battle with a fleet you can see damage in that so I will probably eventually take those values into account but analysing the battle board is likely to be one of the last things I do.

The utility is basically a modified version of the host editor and almost every value is going to be editable so you will be able to modify it yourself. I have also written an editing app for it which shows the .hst values in a treeview control which would allow people who can't script to modify the resulting .hst but I wouldn't like to use it for modify a large number of values, ie all planet habs but for a small number of value it is fine.

I'll probably make a sample .hst available along with the files it was generated from available before actually making the utility available so people can see exactly what it is doing and to provide a chance to see if anybody notices any problems.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sun, 11 January 2009 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PaulCr wrote on Sat, 10 January 2009 14:33

The ultimate intention is to be able to generate an actual server which would be able to fix bugs and possibly have a config file for individual games that allows you to modify some settings that don't effect the client, ie stopping AR pop dying, removing CA deep terraforming, allowing neutrals to pass through minefields etc, the utility is an intermediate step that I think would be useful for players which is why I'm trying to get opinions on publishing it when it is finished.

So that's what's been keeping you busy! Cool

Sounds great. What about any bugs your tool might still have? Whip



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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sun, 11 January 2009 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 09:40

Sounds great. What about any bugs your tool might still have? Whip


There probably will be some bugs but there will be a developer with source code available to iron them out when they are found, it's also pretty likely that my object model is quite a bit easier to modify than the original source code would have been given that it was full of optimisations which fortunately the improvement in PCs since then means I don't have to include.

I may also consider publishing the source code for it which would allow people to look through to see if they notice any bugs and potentially add new features to it, the decryption code would be left out though so any unofficial version of the utility would only work with the unencrypted patch.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sun, 11 January 2009 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Fair enough. Do you need Beta-testers? Very Happy


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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Mon, 12 January 2009 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Sun, 11 January 2009 18:30

Fair enough. Do you need Beta-testers? Very Happy


The testbed creator should hopefully be usable within the next 2 weeks at which point having a few people to try it out would be useful. Once the testbed app is pretty much complete I intend working on the turn generation aspect required for a server, it shouldn't take that long to get something actually playable since I can work with the object model exclusively since it creates the .hst from scratch each time it saves it. Within 2 weeks of getting the testbed function working satisfactorily I expect to have something that you can can build fleets with, move, load/unload, colonise, research, planetary production etc although they might not be completely accurate, ie initially they may use no fuel to move, resources needed to research may differ etc until I can code proper formulas, the things I expect to take time are scanning, minefields and battles.

At present I have it reading your .xy and .m file and producing a valid .hst with your planets, ship design and fleets, enemy planets you saw last turn and ship designs for enemies you fought last turn since I'm not reading the .h yet which has the previous encounters in it, other designs you can see but didn't fight are set to an empty hull with a QJ5. I also have all the enemy fleets in the .hst file but if you run the .hst to generate turn files, to your player everything looks like it should be but if you load one of the other player files and click on one of there ships the display panels usually look corrupt and if you try to give them orders to move stars crashes.

I'm 99% sure it's because the don't have waypoint 0 orders so the next step will be to give them a default one that just places them doing nothing at their current location. After that I should just need to read in the .h file to include previous encounters and then the thing should actually be useful for testing battles or for see how your empire is likely to develop quite a few turns into the future, you won't be able to colonise planets you haven't already seen since you get a default planet if you colonise it which would give completely different growth and minerals from what the real game would give.

I'm testing it with the final turn I have for primitive one although I haven't kept .h files for previous games so I'll have to create a new game to test with. Using a previous game does help test it properly, it showed up things that I wasn't doing in the test game I originally started with, ie ships that only have waypoint 0 orders that do something, ie mining since that uses a different type than those standing still or those that are moving (ie, the WP0 order has them doing nothing)

If anybody is interested in seeing exactly what it is doing I could post the Primitive one .hst I've generated to look at since the game finished ages ago and it is only showing information I had anyway so it's not giving any secrets away, ie you can't see another players race design.


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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 13 January 2009 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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PaulCr wrote on Sat, 10 January 2009 14:33

The utility is aimed for being able to create a testbed for a current game with the info you currently know, mainly for trying out complex battles but I am sure there are other uses which is why I'm posting this message now so I can get opinions on whether or not anyone can see any downside in distributing the program when it is finished. I can't see any, with a lot of work you could create an identical testbed anyway.

Right, a LOT of work ... A utility for this would be fantastic! I'll be keeping my eye on this thread! Nod

mch

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 13 January 2009 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PaulCr wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 01:23

Once the testbed app is pretty much complete I intend working on the turn generation aspect required for a server, it shouldn't take that long to get something actually playable since I can work with the object model exclusively since it creates the .hst from scratch each time it saves it.

Won't you need to tackle x files too for that? Sherlock



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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 13 January 2009 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 10:08


Won't you need to tackle x files too for that? Sherlock


Processing the x file just to get orders is pretty simple. Reading files just to get the information out is pretty easy, editing and creating valid game files is the difficult part since stars has a tendency to kick up a fuss if they aren't absolutely perfect and and everything in the right order, in comparison a lot of the atual game mechanics such as ship moving, production etc is easy especially since I can develop it incrementally, for example I can set fleet movement to use 0 fuel so the first build is just a matter of working out where it is due to be next turn and setting it's X and Y properties, I'll also be doing things like setting ship builds to just cost 1 resource and then add true costs after I have checked production is working. Battles, scanning ranges of more than 0ly and travelling through minefields etc is going to be the by far the trickiest part.

If anybody has .m, .h and .xy files for completed games they are willing to give me for testing the testbed app it would be useful, the more complex they are the better.


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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 13 January 2009 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PaulCr wrote on Tue, 13 January 2009 11:43

for example I can set fleet movement to use 0 fuel so the first build is just a matter of working out where it is due to be next turn and setting it's X and Y properties

If you need help with fuel I got the exact math. It's also published somewhere. Cool

Quote:

If anybody has .m, .h and .xy files for completed games they are willing to give me for testing the testbed app it would be useful, the more complex they are the better.

I should have some of those, provided I can remember which of many retired hard drives harbors them. Rolling Eyes



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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Sun, 01 February 2009 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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I have a version of the utility working satisfactorily now so I expect to make a public release available this week. The current app includes all fleets, planets, minefields, packets, salvage and MTs(set to give tech) you know about but the interface is crude, ie it throws a wobbler if you try to load a file that doesn't exist, you have to do each stage manually, it only uses default races for everyone except you and sets their tech to 26 and it doesn't create m files so you have to generate a year first to get them.

I'm going to create a frontend for it that should fix these problems, it will use a .xml file to set up parameters to use, ie where the .xy, .h and .m files are to import as well as allowing you to specify race files to use for other players instead of the default and allow you to include tech levels. I'm currently expecting the file to look something like the following.
<Games>
  <Game Name="We've fallen down a well">
    <XYFile file="c:\stars\well\well.xy"/>
    <HFile file="c:\stars\well\well.h2"/>
    <MFile file="c:\stars\well\well.m2"/>
    <HSTFile file="c:\stars\welltest\well.hst"/>
    <Player1>
      <RaceFile file="c:\stars\well\well1.r1"/>
      <Energy value="10"/>
      <Weapons value="16"/>
    </Player1>
    <Player3>
      <RaceFile file="c:\stars\well\well3.r1"/>
      <Energy value="9"/>
      <Weapons value="12"/>
    </Player3>
  </Game>
  <Game Name="The bubbles burst again">
  ...
  </Game>
</Games>

There is an anomally in the current version in that everybody get planetary scanners at their planets, I'll have to find out again how planetary scanners are coded since for some reason that isn't in the documentation I have, from memory I seem to remember that they use a bit set to 1 to not have a scanner and required the high 4 bits on the defenses word I think to be 15, should be easy enough to find out again so hopefully I'll have that sorted has well.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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I have a version of the testbed creator available for testing, it can be downloaded at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/

The .xml file will need editing to point to the files you want to use it with. The .xml file also allows you to specify a race file for each player to replace the default HE race and to set tech levels rather then have them at the default 26. At the moment you can't edit unknown enemy designs, they will appear has an empty hull in the m files and an empty hull with QJ5 after the first generation but I intend adding that feature in a later version.

It is likely that if you replace the default HE race with an AR and you can see planets of his but can't see it's starbase, ie because your pen scans just see the planet but can't see the starbase because it is cloaked (ISB or cloaks) then that is likely to cause a crash.

Filenames do have to be valid, all occupied planets have scanners, enemy ships only have 50mg of fuel each to start with and there are likely to be other problems I'm not yet aware of but the utility is still useful in my opinion for creating an accurate testbed quickly even with the current limitations.

I hope people do find it useful, I would appreciate reports of any problems or suggestions for improvements. The utility uses .net 2 so you will also need to have that if you don't already have it.

I only changed the IP address to point to the new server today so it is possible you won't be able to reach it yet although I had no problem so most people should be able to get it.


[Updated on: Tue, 10 February 2009 11:36]

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mlaub is currently offline mlaub

 
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PaulCr wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:29

it can be downloaded at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/



Link is not working for me. Sounds cool.

-Matt



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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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mlaub wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 23:05

PaulCr wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:29

it can be downloaded at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/



Link is not working for me. Sounds cool.

Let me second that (on both).

mch

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
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mlaub wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:05

PaulCr wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:29

it can be downloaded at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/


Link is not working for me. Sounds cool.


Also here

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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mlaub wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 22:05

PaulCr wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:29

it can be downloaded at http://stars.atlantissoftware.co.uk/



Link is not working for me. Sounds cool.

-Matt



As I added to the end of the post about 3 minutes after posting it when I realised some people might have problems downloading it yet, the domain name was only set to the correct IP address earlier today so it is possible some people won't be able to reach it yet, my registrar does say it can take upto 24 hours to propogate through the entire internet, I can email it directly for those who can't reach it yet though.

I have had one person send me an email who has managed to download it and I have managed to download it myself so it probably depends on when your DNS server is updated with the new IP Address, your machine might also cache the previous address if you have tried to access it so if you just hibernate rather than shutting down when you turn off you might still have problems.

I'm just about to place an updated version as soon as I've posted this message on the server in about 2 minutes that should catch any errors and tell you what the problem is along with some short instructions on the UI, there is no functional change so anybody who has downloaded doesn't have an urgent need to download it unless they have got the less than useful error message it was originally giving out.

While I am posting here I would like to add to anybody using the Stars Host Editor dll NOT to use the dll in the zip file instead of the previous versions, while it looks newer and more complete it is kind of in the process of being converted to make the code an awful lot simpler for the turn generator I'm planning so there is an high liklihood it will not do what you are expecting or cause other problems, I've not even looked at testing the changes with anything other then the testbed creator yet, I'm waiting until I start work on the turn generator to do complete testing of the DLL again when everything has been cleaned up.

EDIT: Just noticed that Gible has managed to download the previous version so you can download it from there if you can't get to my site yet, I've included the instructions from the new version below.

Select the game you want to create the .hst for and then click the button.
The .xy, .h and .m filenames in the .xml file must be valid.
If you are using a different directory for the created .hst and .m files (Recommended) then that directory must exist.
You wil also have to copy the original .xy filename to the same directory as the created .hst and give it the same name.




[Updated on: Tue, 10 February 2009 17:48]

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Tue, 10 February 2009 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
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The file at the end of this link from above has been updated Smile

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Wed, 11 February 2009 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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It appears that when I added the ability to replace the races I inadvertently stopped it working with games of less than 16 players and unfortunately the 2 games I was testing the later versions with both happened to be 16 player games.

I've updated the file on the server, I've also added a version indicator to the help text so people will know which version they are running if they have problems, the new version reports itself as 0.02 so if you don't have the version message then you do need to download the new version unless you only play 16 player games.

Hopefully everybody should be able to get it from my server now given the IP address has been changed for at least 16 hours.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Wed, 11 February 2009 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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PaulCr wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 03:58

It appears that when I added the ability to replace the races I inadvertently stopped it working with games of less than 16 players and unfortunately the 2 games I was testing the later versions with both happened to be 16 player games.

I've updated the file on the server, I've also added a version indicator to the help text so people will know which version they are running if they have problems, the new version reports itself as 0.02 so if you don't have the version message then you do need to download the new version unless you only play 16 player games.

Hopefully everybody should be able to get it from my server now given the IP address has been changed for at least 16 hours.



Great! Thanks Paul.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Thu, 12 February 2009 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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I've just tried using it myself in the game I'm in, an awful lot easier then setting up the testbed manually but I did notice a couple of problems, the default battle order in the hst file has the enemy ships not attacking so you have to change it manually, the created m files don't have the battle orders included so if you try to edit them before generating an error occurs. The 50mg of fuel appears to be by fleet rather than ship so that also needs correcting.

These should only take about 10 minutes to correct so I'll put out a new version with them in sometime today, if anyone else has used it and noticed anything that could do with changing then please let me know.

Hopefully if I can find enough time today I'll be able to fully fuel enemy fleets which will make moving them easier especially if they don't have scoops, fortunately the person I was testing against did so I know the likely outcome of the forthcoming battle and even if he does use this app to test himself he can't.

Edit: Found 15 minutes and created an updated version that has been uploaded to server, changelog.txt file added to show what has changed. I've included the entry for the latest change below.

12/2/09 v0.03 Default battle order for enemies changed to actually fight and have now been included in the M files, fuel usage for your own fleets corrected and set to 50 per ship for enemy fleets.


[Updated on: Thu, 12 February 2009 09:54]

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Thu, 12 February 2009 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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For those keeping track I now have a 4th version, I've included the Changelog message at the end of this post. It basically now allows you to add/modify designs, the info.txt file needs updating to identify which slot numbers represent which slot in each design since they are not in order so at the moment it is trial and error getting everything into the correct slot, at the moment the info.txt just includes Frigate (HullID of 5) who's slots are in the order 1,4,3,2 and orbital fort (HullID or 32) who's slots are in the order 5,2,1,4,3. From what I remember Slot 1 on ships is always used for the engine though. Does anybody know if anybody already has the slot orders, possibly because they may be used in another utility?

If anybody has been using it I'd be interested in a wishlist of what they would like added, at the moment I'm thinking

Full fuel for enemies although now that I've correctly given each ship 50mg it seems less essential.
Include your minefields and packets in the m file.
Scanning so that enemy ships, minefields and packets can be included in the m files although I could possibly just dump everybodies fleets, minefields and packets into everybodies .m files in the interim since that might be better than leaving them out

12/2/09 v0.04 You can now add/modify ship and starbase designs in the XML file, view info.txt for the order that slots occur, DatasetEditor.exe also included along with ItemCost.xml and .xsd to allow component details to be looked up, first game in list is now preselected, fixed name display problem when / and probably some other characters were in name.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Thu, 12 February 2009 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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PaulCr wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 23:02

at the moment the info.txt just includes Frigate (HullID of 5) who's slots are in the order 1,4,3,2 and orbital fort (HullID or 32) who's slots are in the order 5,2,1,4,3. From what I remember Slot 1 on ships is always used for the engine though. Does anybody know if anybody already has the slot orders, possibly because they may be used in another utility?

If you mean the Slot configuration (position, size, type), as extracted from Stars.exe itself, I use it for my "allitems" infodumper (the one I use to dinamically generate info like the Tech Tree). I think I used some old docs to decode most of it, but had to figure out some things by myself. The infodumper itself is probably complete enough that others might have a use for it. Sherlock



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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Thu, 12 February 2009 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaulCr

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 00:37

PaulCr wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 23:02

at the moment the info.txt just includes Frigate (HullID of 5) who's slots are in the order 1,4,3,2 and orbital fort (HullID or 32) who's slots are in the order 5,2,1,4,3. From what I remember Slot 1 on ships is always used for the engine though. Does anybody know if anybody already has the slot orders, possibly because they may be used in another utility?

If you mean the Slot configuration (position, size, type), as extracted from Stars.exe itself, I use it for my "allitems" infodumper (the one I use to dinamically generate info like the Tech Tree). I think I used some old docs to decode most of it, but had to figure out some things by myself. The infodumper itself is probably complete enough that others might have a use for it. Sherlock


The data structure for designs is included on the website but they basically have a slot count and then later on have 4 bytes for each slot that contain the item category, item id and count. Each slot corresponds to a slot on the design, however they are not in the same order, ie in the data structure for a frigate the engine comes first, then the scanner, general purpose and finally shields. Given people have to put the items in the correct order knowing which slot is which is very useful since if you get it wrong the item just disappears. For those who have the stars technical reference the easiest way would be to write the slot numbers in each box which is what I am doing but I need the numbers to put in first and at the moment that would take a bit of trial and error. I've done the frigate and writing it on the tech manual they come in the order 1,4,3,2.
Eventually I'll probably produce a web page that can be printed displaying the diagrams from the technical reference with the corresponding slot number along the lines of

1432 - Frigate
   
 2
513 - Orbital Fort
 4


With diagrams like these I know that if I want to put a 16 Deltas in the bottom slot of the fort then I look up the CategoryID and ItemID for Deltas and put those value in the Slot4 element for the design in the xml file, without knowing which slot number corresponds to which box in the design you have to use trial and error to get it correct.

Given that most of the code is in the object dll somebody could write a friendlier interface using drag and drop like in stars but they would still need to know which slot number is which.

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Re: Possible new utility for creating testbeds Thu, 12 February 2009 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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So what you actually need is the Slot Position info, like this:

Destroyer Hull:
  1
 5
0 4 3
 6
  2

It's also included in the slot definition, encoded as yCoord|xCoord bytes near the end of the hull info. Sherlock

For another sample see the New space dock design wanted thread at the VML lounge.



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