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Remotes. Wed, 26 November 2008 07:17 Go to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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About when should you start getting the tech for remotes, and hence when start building them?

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Re: Remotes. Wed, 26 November 2008 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xardre is currently offline Xardre

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

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Registered: June 2005
I generaly build a remote a year on HW if i have ARM. If i dont then once En5, Con4 are done then ill usualy split my research between weapons and basic remote miners (and more energy obviously), then build a miner a year again. Wouldnt go to far into the tech though till well after Jihads at minimum though since what good are remote miners if you dont have any worlds to mine?


[Updated on: Wed, 26 November 2008 18:05]

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Re: Remotes. Thu, 27 November 2008 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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You build potato bugs from turn 1???

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Re: Remotes. Thu, 27 November 2008 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xardre is currently offline Xardre

 
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Sorry should have been clearer. After En5 ill start building a miner a year stopping only if i need a couple of freighters for pop moving.

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Re: Remotes. Thu, 27 November 2008 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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But you build potato bugs? Shocked Don't they take like 8 years to pay back their minerals? Let alone actually make a profit? Also, isn't that like cost 12 mines? Compared to cost 6 mines with Robo-Maxis... What am I missing?

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Re: Remotes. Thu, 27 November 2008 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
Lt. Commander

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I'd wait until the Robo-Miner at least - build a few of those to bide time, then go crazy with the robomaxis or roboultras.
The probalem with rushing jihads before better miners is that those Jihads take a ton of minerals to build and if your minerals are lagging your proud fleet of jihad battleships will be overwhelmed by raw numbers of lower-tech ships.

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Re: Remotes. Fri, 28 November 2008 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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I had the basic idea to go for the Robo-Maxi, but I'm not sure when's the best time to go for them, you see?

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Re: Remotes. Fri, 28 November 2008 02:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

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Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 06:34

I had the basic idea to go for the Robo-Maxi, but I'm not sure when's the best time to go for them, you see?

The problem with remotes is they cost a lot, and need to be run for quite some time to pay back the investment. The less efficient they are, the longer one needs to run them.

With the tech-mongering AR that makes quite a decision: all remotes before the Maxi robot obsolete VERY fast. Since most ARs nowadays also take the ISb, and make the tech rush to Ultra Stations done somewhere around turn 33, the AR player only needs to research Elec-7 and he has Super-robots available, almost as a by-product. That speed makes Maxi-robots obsolete in about 15 turns. Subtract from that the pay-off turns and "maxis" come out even worse. At the time a player can build them en-mass (from Ultra Stations) and really needs them (Ultras grow A LOT of pop), are they already obsolete.

Knowing that fact I usually wait for Super-robot before building ANY remote miner. I let my breeders crowd a bit more, and/or export excess pop to iron-rich close reds (both actions also increasing my mineral production costing no minerals), while waiting those 5 or so turns to get that Super-robot.

However I had yet to test that approach into the real game. The only one game I've been in as an AR ended prematurely. Sad

BR, Iztok

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Re: Remotes. Fri, 28 November 2008 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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Registered: May 2008
Don't Supers obsolete nearly as fast with Death Star tech giving Ultras?

I can understand waiting for Con 12 if no ARM though. Good explanation.

So: wait for Supers if no ARM, maxis -> ultras if ARM?

So go for maxis around 2420?

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Re: Remotes. Sat, 29 November 2008 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xardre is currently offline Xardre

 
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Personnaly i would rather have an early fountain for diplomatic reasons then wait for efficency. Dont get me wrong.....waiting for the best cost per mineral mined is great but when it is an open diplomacy game and you are making sure that your nabours like you, a couple of loads of Germ to each of them works very well (enless they are -F then pray they like your charming smile). IMO this is a far better trade-off then resorces per mineral ever will be cause as AR it is late game you are aiming for not early.

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Re: Remotes. Sun, 30 November 2008 04:57 Go to previous message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

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Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 13:37

Don't Supers obsolete nearly as fast with Death Star tech giving Ultras?

IMO not. It's VERY rare that AR can grow up to Death Stars without being challenged. Somewhere between turn 30 and 40 players usually start seriously looking after their victims, but the AR player just starts building his remotes. That makes him a perfect iron-less target for early jihad BBs, esp. because his enemies don't need bombers to remove him.

Quote:

So go for maxis around 2420?

Much depends on the situation. If there's a non-cooperative neighbour around, then some maxis on iron-rich planets built at "regular" Space Stations could help. He always can sell them lately to a player without remotes. But building them en-mass means he's losing research speed and scarce minerals to medium-efficiency miners, obsolete 5 full research turns after he stops building them. Sad

Anyway an AR player needs to be extremely diplomatic to get over those rough years, when he needs minerals to get minerals, while neighbours build jihad BBs. No other strategy can save him in this period, sorry. Crying or Very Sad (BTW that's the reason why I don't play AR. Hate to depend on the mercy of others.) Only after he gets average 500 mines on his every planet, can he breathe a bit more freely. My opinion anyway, YMMV Confused .

BR, Iztok


[Updated on: Mon, 01 December 2008 03:33]

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