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Home » Primary Racial Traits » PP » to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG!
icon5.gif  to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 07 March 2003 22:39 Go to next message
yucaf is currently offline yucaf

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 100
Registered: December 2002
Location: India

Have you ever played / liked PP?[ 60 votes ]
1. Yes! I love it and I'm expert (and I win!) 2 / 3%
2. I have played several times but mostly lost 5 / 8%
3. Played few times and won, but it's boring 0 / 0%
4. Tried it, and disliked it 10 / 17%
5. Never tried 43 / 72%

One thing for sure, PP is an expensive race in the Wizard. Is it worth it? Do you dominate it? Let us know!

Thanks,

YucaF

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Sat, 08 March 2003 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
Ensign

Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
I normally play IT, so PP looked like a decent race to use to try something different. I figured if I could hide my PRT until I got good mass drivers, I could pull off a devastating surprise attack. And starting with two planets is a very nice initial boost.

Then I started looking at the guts of mass drivers from the help file, and figuring out how big a warp 17 packet would need to be to take out a system with a warp 10 driver and good defenses. The answer was unpleasantly large, and considering I wanted to be able to do this from just about every system I'd have I didn't think I could pull it off and still have any kind of a fleet built.

The mineral costs look much better with two packets per target world, but when you do that you won't do nearly as much harm. You can keep it up a lot longer mineral-wise, but could you keep your launchers alive long enough to win? Until I think I can answer that with a yes, I won't be playing a PP race.

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Sun, 09 March 2003 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BackBlast is currently offline BackBlast

 
Officer Cadet 1st Year
Duel club Champion 2004
Duel Club Champion 2006

Messages: 215
Registered: February 2003
Location: A Rock
yucaf wrote on Fri, 07 March 2003 22:39

One thing for sure, PP is an expensive race in the Wizard. Is it worth it? Do you dominate it? Let us know!

Thanks,

YucaF


Alright, I'll bite. I posted my idea for a WM race and so far it has done well. I've played it in a couple of duels and it has performed well for me (small, normal, further). I didn't hit 25k resources, but 17k I did have wasn't bad at all, I had pretty much absorbed all the room I could in the universe without stomping on too many enemy worlds so far... heh. Shortly though... Twisted Evil

First off, give up the notion that a PP is suppose to sit back and launch packets at its foes. Packets can be used, but usually as a support to a well coordinated attack. What is the point in taking territory you don't intend to use? Over extension is bad. So lets discuss how to build a race that could work. This will yet again be another untested but well thought out design (including testbeds, and bouncing ideas off Stalwart's head). Very Happy

PRT: PP
LRT: IFE, NRSE, ISB, OBRM
Hab: 1/6 Grav immune 19% GR
Swing either rad or temp widish, get it out of the middle (there are reasons for this to follow).
Econ: -F (5/25/5 no G box)
Mines: 12/3/7-8 (possibly go 10/3/7-8 if you really want more hab)
Tech: Energy, Weapons, Construction cheap. Rest expensive.

Now, how to operate this delicate beast. First you must understand the power of packets other than offensive possibilities. Packets can be used for terraforming. People living on the world are irrelevant, defences on the world are irrelevant, speed is irrelevant. Only the size of uncaught minerals are relevant. There are 2 possible types of terraforming. I will dub normal terraforming, terraforming. And modifying base values permaforming. In general 100kt of minerals has a 50% chance of terraforming, it also seems to have 5% of permaforming the world (by 1%). So, it will cost on average 200kt of a mineral to terraform a world, which in turn costs you 15 resources. There is potential here,
...

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Wed, 12 March 2003 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Taubat is currently offline The Taubat

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 263
Registered: December 2002
That is a good stratagy buuuut, you should try and find an AR ally, if there is one they WILL ally with you. unlimited minerals + PP = deadly race and a couple of dead ones Very Happy


Royal Sha'a'kar of the Taubat people

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Thu, 13 March 2003 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hyper is currently offline Hyper

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 59
Registered: November 2002
Location: UK Birmingham

i personally find the PP very playable, and the fact that i can ruin the game for my neigbour from year 1.. heye, its great just for that LOL!


Aragh!

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 14 March 2003 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stalwart is currently offline Stalwart

 
Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 74
Registered: November 2002
Location: Varies

Greetings all,

First off I would like to thank Backblastus for keeping my mind occupied for quite some time. We have both learned a lot from each other and I have actually got some "experience" now to back up my posts here on the forrum. Now onto the post.

First off I would like to point out that the -f PP is a very powerfull monster in which to work. Like most -f they require your full attention to not only get them to work, but to also push them to their limits. Keep in mind that packets are not the only thing you carry. Just like all other races you also have basic terraforming. This does not mean you should packet your own planets. I mean if you are playing a -f and you decide you want to permaform you entire empire and you lift all your colonists into orbit and kill your colonies... you litterally have to wait 3 more years for the pop to come back and you also loose those three years of growth. Just because you have "free Terraforming" with your packets you still need to keep in mind that you are NOT a CA.

Knowing this another thing to keep in mind is that you should not EVER take ALL your minerals in your empire and launch EVERYTHING at one target. It will kill the planet, it will kill any chances of building a large fleet, but if you want to win the game, manage the minerals you have. Build Iron Heavy ships to take out enemy ships at long range (you won't need the Iron as you have Grav immune in this case). PP is a nice race to try long range tactics and anti-chaff designs. Beams are still good but try to figure out what you plan to do with all that iron and build around that.

One of the nice things about a PP is the fact that you can get a Mass Driver around ANY planet at or below 200 resources capable of flinging packets at warp nine. Also keep in mind these mass drivers are capable of tossing packets at 5 resources a piece. At most your "terraforming" efforts will only cost you 20 resources at the most. Sounds nice right? Keep in mind though that 20 resources al
...




"Attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."- Sun Tzu

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Thu, 03 April 2003 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
I like to hear I am not the only one who does not believe PP is unplayable or just very weak.

I have some more comments here...

First of all the by far most important feature is the terraforming, but I see it a little bit different then
some others...

So it is less expensive than normal terraforming, bit there
are still the costs for the minerals... I think the real
advantage is that you can knock the yellows green BEFORE
you colonize the planet!

That makes PP perfect for a 1 immune 2 narrow hab scheme and
HP econ (or hybrid).
These race usually have problems to get yellows to work with
their 1/2500 pop efficiency, which is the main drawback IMHO.

Also I really like the 1 immune 2 narrow, and this is usually
not good for HPs, as you got lots of yellows to work up later.

But it makes PERFECT sense for PP!

First of all you get some really fat greens in the beginning,
and PP is (with the possible exception of a JoaT) the race which
is best able to find them quickly.

Second you are (with the sure exception of CA) best able to
terraform the many good yellows (most yellows can become 100%
worlds later!) to greens with only few packets before you
colonize them.

Third of all the immune-narrow schemes make your de-terraforming
ability more dangerous to enemies, as you always terraform the
planet towards your habs (and for immunes to the edges). If you
got centered habs, and your enemy also, your packets are useless.
But if you got one immune and the others _very_ shifted, all
3 minerals can de-terraform, and for every enemy you will find
a way to render the planet red.

So IMHO the PP is best used in a 1 immune 2 narrow scheme as HP!

note: I like to take temp immune, as i will terraform temp with
boranium, and i when i attack i dont want to attack with ironium
so they can catch it and build arms with it. also IF other races
play with 1 immunity, they usually chose grav, and you want to
use the de-terraforming ability later, so dont chose grav immune
also! Boranium is
...




2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 04 April 2003 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
Good post, Robert. PP has never been a PRT I've been enthusiastic about trying, but this is certainly interesting reading. There was one thing that confused me, though.
Robert wrote on Wed, 02 April 2003 23:42

Temp immune, grav and rad 30 wide 4 from edge,
gives 1/10, but you will have LOTS of good yellows.
This must be written wrong. Later you spoke of 1 immune and 2 narrow fields, but HERE I interpret it as 1 immune and two very wide habs, which should make for "virtually all planets will be habitable" at the very least (and surely you don't have that many RW points for hab with everything else you have). Can you rewrite it that so I understand? Or am I just missing something?



I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 04 April 2003 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert is currently offline Robert

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 393
Registered: November 2002
Location: Dortmund, Germany
hm???

i think i said what i ment...

temp is immune,
rad field is 30 clicks wide and 4 clicks from the edge,
same with rad...

that means from 4mR to 34mR...

gives 1 in 10 planets

and is FAR from live anywhere...


robert



2b v !2b -> ?

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 04 April 2003 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zoid is currently offline zoid

 
Ensign

Messages: 348
Registered: December 2002
Location: Murray, KY - USA
OK. I guess "30 clicks wide" just sounded wider than it actually is. I was thinking 30 clicks wide left you 4 clicks from the edge in both directions. Embarassed


I'M NOT AN EXPERT AND I'M OFTEN PROVEN WRONG. TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN YOU READ MY POSTS.
Math? Confused Ummm, sure! Nod I do FREESTYLE math.

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Sat, 05 April 2003 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
Ensign

Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
I've seen this before. Each button click changes a field by two units, and some people use the term click for a single unit. I prefer to see and use actual range numbers, to avoid the chance of confusion.

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Re: to PP or not to PP? That is the ...iiiuuuuuuBANG! Fri, 13 June 2003 13:23 Go to previous message
Crusader is currently offline Crusader

 
Officer Cadet 2nd Year

Messages: 233
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dixie Land
Oh look! 70% of respondants have NEVER TRIED to play PP.

Eek Laughing

I admit it. I've never tried it because I never like the expense. I wanted fast growth and lots of it.

Plus, I like SS WAAAYYY too much. Twisted Evil

I know. It's a disease. Luckily, there is NO cure.

The Crusader Angel



Nothing for now.

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