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ISB Fri, 01 August 2008 23:28 Go to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1364
Registered: May 2008
Why is ISB considered to be bad for IT? Doesn't it make your gates even cheaper?

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Re: ISB Sat, 02 August 2008 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GJScarritt is currently offline GJScarritt

 
Crewman 3rd Class

Messages: 9
Registered: August 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
i think ISB is considered bad by some, since IT can gate in pop/minerals instantly, then they can afford to gate in enough to upgrade to an armed SB relatively quickly. True, ISB would make that initial Fort/gate cheaper, but are the RW points that important considering the ease IT could improve gates/SB's?

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Re: ISB Sat, 02 August 2008 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
projectstupid is currently offline projectstupid

 
Petty Officer 2nd Class

Messages: 57
Registered: January 2008
Also the Space Dock is a great help with early expansion even if your IT, sometimes you will need to refule ships. It can also give youa small edge in building hordes of ships as you can now build them on Space Docks, without forcing your planet to buld even more expensive starbases.

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Re: ISB Sat, 02 August 2008 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
Location: Berlin
GJScarritt wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 10:19

i think ISB is considered bad by some, since IT can gate in pop/minerals instantly, then they can afford to gate in enough to upgrade to an armed SB relatively quickly. True, ISB would make that initial Fort/gate cheaper, but are the RW points that important considering the ease IT could improve gates/SB's?


Exactly.
ISB is generally great for everybody but it costs a lot.
So the IT is seen as one of the PRTs that could get away best with not taking ISB.

Personally I would make it much more dependent on the game scenario than on the PRT, though, wether to take ISB or not.

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Re: ISB Sun, 03 August 2008 23:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adacore is currently offline Adacore

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 156
Registered: February 2005
Location: Shanghai
Yeah - the key thing is that you don't need the refuelling bases anywhere near as much as IT: if it's in your empire and has a base/fort, it should also have a gate, so (with slightly increased MM in some circumstances) doesn't need to be able to refuel ships itself, as fuel can come from planets on the gate network with SBs.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 August 2008 23:07]

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Re: ISB Thu, 07 August 2008 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
IT & ISB make Gate and SB construction cheaper. I don't believe they compound.

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Re: ISB Fri, 08 August 2008 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1364
Registered: May 2008
IT applies on the actual component, whereas ISB applies during design. Let me see whether I'm right... yup, I am. The cost gets down to 60% of normal.

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Re: ISB Fri, 08 August 2008 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
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Location: Berlin
neilhoward wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 04:28

IT & ISB make Gate and SB construction cheaper. I don't believe they compound.


On what do you base this believe?

magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 09:58

IT applies on the actual component, whereas ISB applies during design. Let me see whether I'm right... yup, I am. The cost gets down to 60% of normal.


Yes, IT and ISB bonus are accumulative... the other PRT is the WM where you can see that WM-weapon-bonus, ISB and usual station-bonus for weapons applies and accumulates or rather multiplies which makes arming a base really very very cheap for WMs (better keep that in mind when attacking a small inncocently looking WM-colony).

The exception from the rule are ARs where race-bonus and ISB do NOT work together. A fact the Stars-help-file mentions (somehow the Jeffs must have thought AR too powerful... whyever).

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Re: ISB Fri, 08 August 2008 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
neilhoward

 
Commander

Messages: 1112
Registered: April 2008
Location: SW3 & 10023
Altruist wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 09:10

neilhoward wrote on Fri, 08 August 2008 04:28

IT & ISB make Gate and SB construction cheaper. I don't believe they compound.

On what do you base this believe?

I have it backwards.
What I mean to say is that these values are not strictly additive. IT Prt reduces the cost of gates. ISB Lrt reduces the cost of SB hulls and components from the Prt modified cost. The ISB difference in gate cost for IT is the same as SD. A factor of 1.25=60%, as opposed to the Prt cost modifier not reducing the Lrt cost modifier (for a factor of ~1.36=55%).
Maths is hard for me.



[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 01:44]

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Re: ISB Fri, 08 August 2008 23:48 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1364
Registered: May 2008
Yes, IT makes gates 75% cost, and ISB makes starbases 80% cost, so the result is 75% * 80% = 60% cost. This is good, that's all I'm saying.

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