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Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 03:48 Go to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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Registered: May 2008
From what I've heard on this forum, it's a good idea not to build any RMs until you hace the Robo-Maxi-Miner.

When is it a good idea to start investing in tech for this? When the crunch happens? 2405? Some other time?

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Re: Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adacore is currently offline Adacore

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

Messages: 156
Registered: February 2005
Location: Shanghai
I think that's only true if you don't have ARM, although I'm not sure. It might not be a good idea to invest *heavily* in miners until you've got the maxi-miner (or, ideally, the ultra-miner), but as AR I'd think you should be investing in at least some remote mining almost from day 1.

Assuming here that you're talking about AR, since it's in the AR forum...


[Updated on: Wed, 04 June 2008 04:56]

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Re: Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Regardless of whether you took ARM or not (no AR should take OBRM), you have a number of priorities ahead of remote mining.

By mid-late 20s you will probably have En10, Weap10 & Con8 (LFs). IMO, you would be crazy to build remote miners before that but, at that point, since you probably have Elec expensive, you could research Robo-Maxis (Elec4) & build a modest # remote miners.

After that you will want Ultra Stations which happens to be at Con12, as is the Robo-Super so you just need Elec6 for them.

If you don't have ARM you can now build your final remote miner design but don't get silly - you will want Death Stars (Con17), weap16 & En14 asap.

If you have ARM some players will build some at that level but others will try to wait for Robo-Ultras (Con15, Elec8).

IMO you should stick with midget (mini if no ARM) miners since it is important that your remote miners are gateable without heavy losses.

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Re: Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gible

 
Commander

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If you have allies, you can trade away the obsolete miners too.

But yes, the general AR strategy, is to build as few miners as possible(but not less that you need) until you reach deathstars...even to the point of shipping the minerals generated by colonising back to the breeder/HW to build more colony ships.

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Re: Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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so are you saying that there's something really wrong with hitting an Iron crunch at 2411?

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Re: Miners Wed, 04 June 2008 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
Did you purposely set up a low surface Ir / low Ir conc HW? Is it a Universe where any race would have an Ir crunch?

If your HW Ir was, say, 150kT/30% then it isn't surprising. If your starting surface Ir was, say, 450kT/75% then it is possibly surprising.

Are you transporting a big chunk of the Ir from colonisation back to the HW?

Getting some Ir back to your production worlds can be rather useful.

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Re: Miners Thu, 05 June 2008 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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It was a testbed with B:MM. I had ~450 kT on my HW to start, maybe I shouldn't have built 20 scouts. I only had 4-5 worlds at the time.

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Re: Miners Fri, 06 June 2008 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

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Hi!
magic9mushroom wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 04:18

maybe I shouldn't have built 20 scouts.

Definitely. You should build only as much scouts to get info on your share of space in ~10 turns. That's usually about 5. The rest of iron is reserved for first 10 Pintas and 6-8 med freighters. Because MFs lack on fuel for 3 W-9 jumps, you need some more scouts as boosters, but better idea is to rush for SFX and LFs immediately after en-5-7. Each time any of your freighters visits a colony it should load most minerals (iron being the most imporant). It's also a good idea to colonize every iron-rich planet close to your HW and (when you've already hit all close greens) dump there about a MF of pop to increase mining, then dedicate one or two MFs to collect these mined minerals and ferry them back to your HW or other production planet.

Quote:

I only had 4-5 worlds at the time.

Not enough. IMO before mid game you should colonize everything in your space. Trade some of these planets to your allies, but keep iron-rich for yourself, at least until you get enough remote miners to have 500-1000 mines per planet.

BR, Iztok

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Re: Miners Mon, 09 June 2008 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

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so you're saying that 5 worlds is too little at 2411?

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Re: Miners Mon, 09 June 2008 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
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Way too little - you should be aiming for at least 1 new colony each year.
You should also be planning to add a chunk of pop to each colony. Remember you dont want your pop to rise to 25% on your homeworld - try for about 10%. you will soon see as you do this that you need more planets.



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: Miners Mon, 09 June 2008 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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But now I'm in a catch 22, as without the scouts I couldn't have found any more worlds - my race has 1 in 7 hab plus TT and non-immune. So how to find the required amount of planets without screwing yourself over via iron crunch,

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Re: Miners Mon, 09 June 2008 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adacore is currently offline Adacore

 
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I think (although I'm not sure) the answer is something along the lines of 'colonise everything', even reds, especially if they have Iron. And maybe think about increasing the hab ranges and lowering growth.

[Updated on: Mon, 09 June 2008 22:38]

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Re: Miners Tue, 10 June 2008 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
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Growth is already at 15%, no more dropping possible. LRTs are IFE, TT, ARM, ISB, NRSE, CE.

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Re: Miners Tue, 10 June 2008 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adacore is currently offline Adacore

 
Chief Warrant Officer 2

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magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 00:13

Growth is already at 15%, no more dropping possible.



I've seen a lot of AR designs with 14% PGR, some as low as 12% or even 11%. I'm not saying you should drop it, just saying it's something that could be considered - definitely not impossible.

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Re: Miners Tue, 10 June 2008 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

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Quote:

But now I'm in a catch 22, as without the scouts I couldn't have found any more worlds - my race has 1 in 7 hab plus TT and non-immune. So how to find the required amount of planets without screwing yourself over via iron crunch,



As iztoc said - about 5 scouts. Your orignal 1, and then build 1 or 2 a turn (to fit in with getting En + building pintas) until you have 5.
With 1/7 you will on average each turn find at least 1 green OR yellow OR high iron planet that you want to colonise. If you dont find one of these for a turn just colonise a red within a 1 year jump of your homeworld.

Also you can send a pinta to worlds you are going to scout soon - hopefully by the time it gets there you know which of them you want to colonise.



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: Miners Tue, 10 June 2008 06:48 Go to previous message
magic9mushroom is currently offline magic9mushroom

 
Commander

Messages: 1183
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Adacore wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 15:00

magic9mushroom wrote on Tue, 10 June 2008 00:13

Growth is already at 15%, no more dropping possible.



I've seen a lot of AR designs with 14% PGR, some as low as 12% or even 11%. I'm not saying you should drop it, just saying it's something that could be considered - definitely not impossible.


The 12% and 11% are almost all bi-immunes. My race is a non-immune.

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