Home » Primary Racial Traits » IS » Best way to make a -F IS
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Mon, 26 November 2007 01:27   |
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| Soobie |
 | Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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| velvetthroat57 wrote on Sat, 24 November 2007 03:39 |
I am playing a 1 in 7 hab 1 immune race.
CAL
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Do you find that with 1 in 7 you are holding a big chunk of the pop in the air early?
In a couple of tests I've run, and chatting to a couple of other players, it seems that when you go narrow hab with a -f IS (like 1 in 7), you tend to hold a bit more in the air rather than on the ground, compared to a 1-wide 1 in 4~5, where you have a few more average greens and having them on the ground *can* make a bit of sense?
From that perspective, IS, CA and IT seem to be the only PRTs you can get away with a fairly narrow hab.
At 1 in 9, surely that is not a -f? That is an HG or semi QS?
Cheers
D.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Mon, 26 November 2007 09:15 |
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 velvetthroat57 |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005 | |
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| Soobie wrote on Mon, 26 November 2007 01:27 |
Do you find that with 1 in 7 you are holding a big chunk of the pop in the air early?
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At the moment my economy is about 8k and, if I dropped my orgies, it would be about 12k. So I have a little more than a third of my total pop in orgies. I am not sure if you consider that a big chunk but it will only get bigger as the orgies compound.
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In a couple of tests I've run, and chatting to a couple of other players, it seems that when you go narrow hab with a -f IS (like 1 in 7), you tend to hold a bit more in the air rather than on the ground, compared to a 1-wide 1 in 4~5, where you have a few more average greens and having them on the ground *can* make a bit of sense?
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This seems reasonable. As long as you have places to expand, it doesn't make sense to start orgies. With broader habs you get more places and the onset of orgitis is delayed.
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At 1 in 9, surely that is not a -f? That is an HG or semi QS?
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At a guess, it is either a 1/800 pop eff or a TT race.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Mon, 26 November 2007 22:31 |
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| Soobie |
| Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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Deleted a pointless comment. 
[Updated on: Mon, 26 November 2007 22:47] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Tue, 27 November 2007 03:29 |
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| Soobie |
At 1 in 9, surely that is not a -f? That is an HG or semi QS?
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Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll try 1 in 6, I read that's a much better choice. Surely it has significantly more planets (as my brief testing has shown.)
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At a guess, it is either a 1/800 pop eff or a TT race.
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TT 1i 900 eff. Turns out it's wicked fast at terraforming (near 2% per year on a red), but alas, it's got so little to terraform. I was lucky to brake 8k by 50. I'd say it's not viable, though I was pretty slack about planetary pop management, but I don't expect that to make too much difference.
[Updated on: Tue, 27 November 2007 03:33]
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Tue, 27 November 2007 11:08 |
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Whoa... Now THAT's scarry. But only if he can keep it up. Which once he finds someone with a suitable planet he can immediately jump there. Why was he so hard to get rid of? Can't you just overpower him?
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Wed, 28 November 2007 02:14 |
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Yeah that about clears it up for me. I'd ask more but, like you said, it would detract from this tread too much.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Sun, 20 January 2008 18:57 |
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OK, looks like Sixpack1 is over, so I can talk a little about my race.
19% -f IS
52k at 2450 (but only 18k at 2445)
This was in a medium normal universe, in a real game. It should be possible to get a significantly better result in denser universes, although IS is quite tolerant of lower density universes due to the growth in space.
IS
ISB, OBRM, NAS, RS
Grav 1.20g to 4.40g
Temp -112^C to 200^C
Rad immune
PGR 19%
1/1000 5/25/5/4g 10/3/11
Weap, Con and Prop cheap; En normal; El and Bio expensive
Croby was slow coming out because of en normal and the early investment in prop research. The narrow grav and extreme wide temp meant that terraforming in grav was extremely effective. I did not terraform in temp until mid-game, preferring to get tech and warships instead. About 1 in 3.5 worlds start green, with about 1 in 2 eventually habitable.
Disruptor nubians could've been obtained before 2460, but I made a decision to fight with battleships first, in this game. Game ended at 2463, by which point I had 64k, 11/22/16/20/12/6, 150 w20+ battleships and 8000 chaff. At this point I was three turns off nubians, if I ceased BB production.
Resource growth was relatively slow after 2450, as I made a decision to go to 100% capacity almost everywhere, so my orgy was small (only 11 million at 2463 - small enough I had to have a couple of breeder worlds to boost growth to keep up with my territorial gains.) If I'd thought there was a danger anyone else was doing as well as me, I would've settled for something like 40k resources instead, breeding up more pop so I would be able to overpop sooner if I needed to.
I think the race could get away with as low as 10/3/8 mines - at the end of the game I'd only bothered to build an average of 7 mines per 10,000 planetary population, with minerals plentifull, but at some exposed forward bases I'd maxxed the mines early on to feed the war machine, so I think 10/3/11 is safer and worked pretty well.
EDIT: If it's not obvious, the key concept in this particular r
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[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 19:42] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Sun, 20 January 2008 22:12 |
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Out of curiousity, I plotted the numbers to see what 'CAGR' (the Compound Annual Growth Rate that Soobie loves talking about) you need to hit 50k @ 2450, for a 1/1000 -f.
19% PGR: you need to realise a 12.82% CAGR.
20% PGR: you need to realise a 12.73% CAGR. (lower because more starting pop.)
For the 20%, that number looks easily beatable - given that you get 12% even when you have 2.75 million in orbit over a single perfect world (2.75 million drops 275000 to the surface (to join the 100 you left on there) who grow another 55000.) And obviously you were getting a better rate while you were working your way up to this point....
So the key, is to cover the two ends:
1) Make sure your hab scheme gives you plenty of high value worlds, so your early growth is as close to your maximum as possible. If you can get ahead of the curve, it's easy, as IS, to 'hang in there' towards the end when the pop piles up.
2) Make sure your hab scheme is broad enough, and your race powerfull enough, to give you enough worlds to actually be able to deploy your pop at your target year to actually make use of all this pop.
Now... To hit 100k @ 2450 without overpop, you need to pull 14.3% growth a year, and the equivalent of 91 perfect worlds. Hmmm. If any medium-packed games show up... Don't let me join them, I'm not sure I can face the MM of the attempt  Maybe if I feel masochistic I can try it in a testbed just to demonstrate it can be done.
[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2008 01:11] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Mon, 21 January 2008 03:17 |
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| Soobie |
| Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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| Dogthinkers wrote: |
Out of curiousity ...
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You heard about what happens when you mix curiosity with a cat?
Lucky you are of the canine persuasion.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Mon, 21 January 2008 03:33 |
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It sounds like knowing calculus can be a ridiculously powerful tool in Stars. Someday maybe I'll know enough to do that. But not any time soon in afraid.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Thu, 12 March 2009 08:59 |
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| scottrick49 |
| Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 98
Registered: August 2003
Location: Minneapolis, MN | |
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| Soobie wrote on Tue, 25 September 2007 22:12 |
Since you don't have IFE, have you considered running to con8 fast (<2410) and using a couple of LFs (and an FT if absolutely necessary - maybe 1 or 2 max) with QJ5 while you run for prop (I tend to put a Coloniser module on a QJ5 LF, if I make any at all).
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I have been trying some of this stuff, and I have not been able to reach construct 8 for the large freighter before my home world reaches 25%. The only way I think I might be able to reach it would be to turn off auto-build minds on my home world - but I'm worried this will set back my mineral production too much. Or maybe not?
What sort of auto-build orders do you put on your home world when playing -f IS? I had been going with auto-build 12 mines each turn, but the more I think about this, the more I think this might be wrong. At roughly 10 resources a mine for roughly 8 turns, I was throwing 960 resources into mines I probably didn't need right then. With cheap construction tech, that might be enough to hit con8 before my homeworld is full. Hmm... I think I have just talked myself into trying this!
scottrickReport message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Thu, 12 March 2009 14:14 |
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| scottrick49 wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 13:59 |
At roughly 10 resources a mine [...]
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Well, set mines to cost only 3 ressources when designing your race. It's cheap to lower the cost of mines and 3 ressources per mine has become a standard.
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Wed, 02 September 2009 08:56 |
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| Soobie |
| Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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| scottrick49 wrote on Thu, 12 March 2009 23:29 |
| Soobie wrote on Tue, 25 September 2007 22:12 |
Since you don't have IFE, have you considered running to con8 fast (<2410) and using a couple of LFs (and an FT if absolutely necessary - maybe 1 or 2 max) with QJ5 while you run for prop (I tend to put a Coloniser module on a QJ5 LF, if I make any at all).
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I have been trying some of this stuff, and I have not been able to reach construct 8 for the large freighter before my home world reaches 25%. The only way I think I might be able to reach it would be to turn off auto-build minds on my home world - but I'm worried this will set back my mineral production too much. Or maybe not?
What sort of auto-build orders do you put on your home world when playing -f IS? I had been going with auto-build 12 mines each turn, but the more I think about this, the more I think this might be wrong. At roughly 10 resources a mine for roughly 8 turns, I was throwing 960 resources into mines I probably didn't need right then. With cheap construction tech, that might be enough to hit con8 before my homeworld is full. Hmm... I think I have just talked myself into trying this!
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It's been a while, but my goal is 3~4 good greens (+HW) by 2409~2411 and that's around when I hit C8. What happens to the early ships (and how they are designed) depends on hab draw and neighbours. But I am farrrr from one of the aggressively playing experts.
So yes, iirc, I tend to have a bit of ship production going before hitting C8. I think the earliest I got C8 without killing pop growth was 2408.
BTW ... I think 12 mines is possibly too much for most -f IS (possibly your design needs massive minerals?) Personally I always like about 10-ish and had luck with 10/3/9 once. I'm not as gutsy as others and haven't tried anything less than that in PBEM.
Happy to be corrected by anyone and happy for others to hit C8 earlier
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2009 08:59] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Wed, 02 September 2009 22:07 |
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| Micha wrote on Thu, 03 September 2009 00:59 |
| Soobie wrote on Wed, 02 September 2009 14:56 |
BTW ... I think 12 mines is possibly too much for most -f IS (possibly your design needs massive minerals?) Personally I always like about 10-ish and had luck with 10/3/9 once. I'm not as gutsy as others and haven't tried anything less than that in PBEM.
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Has been a while since I played a -f IS, don't remember my mine settings, possibly 10/3/10, and I was running low on minerals.
Two things about IS: first, weapons cost you 25% more in minerals (and resources) and second, if you do well you'll have strong orgies and 300% pop on many (all) planets giving you on each of those the resources of a HG and therefor also its mineral usage.
mch
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However most of the game will probably be played out well before you have the pop to go to 300%, and will be played with 100% capacity or less... Which with x/x/10 mines is 1 mine per resource.
I tried with 10/3/14 mines in one game, and never built more than about 10 mines per 10,000 pop anywhere except the homeworld
I tried with 10/3/10 in another, and while sometimes I felt another mine or two would've been nice, I don't think I ever had to wait for minerals (I was proactively balancing them quite early in the game.) That was the game I hit 50k @ 2450, so quite a lot of minerals did get used 
I wouldn't dare 9 though. And 11 or 12 is certainly nice. But generally I'd rather more hab - more worlds (and thus more mines, more growth, more resources.)
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| Re: Best way to make a -F IS |
Sat, 05 September 2009 07:15 |
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| Soobie |
| Officer Cadet 3rd Year |
Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia | |
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You know, I still can't work out if I prefer -f IS with or without IFE/NRSE. :S
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