Home World Forum
Stars! AutoHost web forums

Jump to Stars! AutoHost


 
 
Home » Primary Racial Traits » IS » How to survive with 16% growth
How to survive with 16% growth Fri, 27 July 2007 03:48 Go to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

I was wondering what the best method of surviving with a 16% IS race is? I've been putting up 6 or more privateers with 250kt capacity in orbit. It boosts the growth by 12,000 people, which at 25% on my HW it comes out to over 20% growth. Repeating for all breeders also seems to work.

Is there anything else I should try?



Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Fri, 27 July 2007 04:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Only put those privateers up after all your breeders pass 25%, of course.

With IS though, I'd really question the logic of taking less than 18%, preferably 19%. You really want that orbital growth to compound *fast* so it pays off fast enough to justify the investment. Think about it, supposing your race is a little behind at 25%/33% breeder hold (hence the question about survival,) then having to invest in extra freighters, then filling them with precious population, then having to wait for them to repay the investment... This isn't helping you to survive the mid-game Smile I think if I were commited to 16% PGR, I'd be considering JOAT as a way to increase my growth instead.


[Updated on: Fri, 27 July 2007 04:37]

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Fri, 27 July 2007 05:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Captain Maim is currently offline Captain Maim

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 492
Registered: March 2003
Location: USA, Mesa, Arizona

That's an interesting perspective. (regarding JOAT)

I DID do better with 18% that's for sure. Thanks for the input.

I've only been adding the privateers when the pop goes to like 300,000 or 400,000 or higher. That way I can fill the freighters up immediately, anything less and I'm exporting to them.

Other question, how important is cheap con to IS growth?


[Updated on: Fri, 27 July 2007 05:13]




Rule 1: "Pillage, THEN burn!"

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Fri, 27 July 2007 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
velvetthroat57 is currently offline velvetthroat57

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005
Captain Maim wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 05:11

I DID do better with 18% that's for sure. Thanks for the input.

I've only been adding the privateers when the pop goes to like 300,000 or 400,000 or higher. That way I can fill the freighters up immediately, anything less and I'm exporting to them.

Other question, how important is cheap con to IS growth?


It is nice to have but not essential. IS races have a love/hate relationship with their orgies. They are great wonderful powerful things to have but they are a true pain to create. Every colonist sitting in orbit breeding is a colonist not doing anything other than procreating. If you don't take con cheap and end up letting your worlds creep towards or over 50% because you don't yet have freighter capacity to hold the pop, that creates more resources on the ground which will allow you to get the research done. Then you can pull the worlds back down to a lower level and have a decent sized orgy immediately.

On the other hand, unless you are playing a weapons cheap, rest expensive type of race, what is there better to take cheap? You are going to have to research or attain all 26 levels anyway so you might as well make it cheap and ease the pain of getting the roomier freighters.

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Sat, 28 July 2007 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
I think velvetthroat has it here.

Pop in orgies isn't *doing* anything
Making orgies costs resources
Orgies are cheaper to make if you have higher con (LF / SF)

So... Orgies are a liabilty to an IS race, until they mature. To increase my chances of survival until they mature I can do three things. I can make them resource cheaper (cheap con); I can make them population cheaper (higher growth means I can spare more pop, and they generate a return faster); or I can not make them at all.

The third option feels a bit anti-thematic for IS, so I reject it.

Orgies are so expensive and provide such a massive return, that I would try to do both. Con cheap and high growth.

If I'm taking 2 cheap or better, then I'll definately take con cheap. I vaguely remember seeing someone play a IS race with con cheap and weapons normal, even (expecting to trade con to buy his weap... risky.)

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Sat, 28 July 2007 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
Dogthinkers wrote on Sat, 28 July 2007 15:06

...

Orgies are so expensive and provide such a massive return, that I would try to do both. Con cheap and high growth.

If I'm taking 2 cheap or better, then I'll definately take con cheap.
...

Great timing for this thread to appear. I have a question to help with a design I'm toying with! Not QUITE about the 16% PGR, but very close. Very Happy

Appreciating it depends on the situation, if considering the following options:
1) 18% PGR; LSP; Con Cheap; OR
2) 17% PGR; Con Cheap; OR
3) 18% PGR; Con normal; OR
4) 19% PGR; LSP; Con normal; OR
5) another alternative not thought of (like reducing hab ... ewww);
which would one suggest is the better bet?

(Ok, reduce all the PGRs by 1% and 16% is in there Razz )

(I was trending towards option 4, now I'm thinking option 1 is the better bet. There is about a 25pt spread between them depending on how you set up your hab screen AND I'm thinking IS can handle LSP better than most, if not as well as AR.)

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Sat, 28 July 2007 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
For the same reason I argue for a higher growth rate, I would argue against LSP for IS. If you are playing 'catch up' with your population (i.e. if you have LSP) then how you will afford to invest population to create an orgy? (And as I've mentioned, if you don't plan to make strong use of growth in space, I'd be looking at another PRT.)

In your list of suggestions, I'd go with either (5) or (3). I'd be lookig at reducing economy settings or hab to get at least 18%, preferably 19% with con cheap. Less hab or no-immunity (if you'd taken one) is actually quite acceptable for a IS, since a large part of their growth will be taking part in space, independent of the hab values of the planets they will eventually fill to 100% capacity and beyond.

-f 1-immune suits IS very well, as does no-immune HG.

I've won with a 17% HP IS, but it was a very painfull experience and I'll take neither HP nor 17% with IS PRT again. Creating the orgies was *excruciatingly* painfull and it was only a mix of perfect diplomacy, circumstance, and blind luck that let me survive to the point I could reap the benefits.


[Updated on: Sat, 28 July 2007 12:31]

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to survive with 16% growth Sat, 01 September 2007 13:41 Go to previous message
Marduk is currently offline Marduk

 
Ensign

Messages: 345
Registered: January 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
Dogthinkers wrote on Fri, 27 July 2007 04:36

With IS though, I'd really question the logic of taking less than 18%, preferably 19%. You really want that orbital growth to compound *fast* so it pays off fast enough to justify the investment.

The logic is much the same as the argument between -f and HP; you sacrifice growth rate for a better end result, whether it is through better hab settings, better tech settings, or whatever else.

I did quite well with a 16% IS, though it was clear after about 20 years that I would have done better to narrow my hab in favor of raising my PGR. The logic seems sound, but the 16% growth rate ended up delaying the orgies by too many years through a combination of having fewer resources for research and taking longer to build the excess population.

The race plan was all about rapid expansion, grabbing as much territory early on as possible. Having those extra greens close seemed nice, but they ended up slowing my expansion in terms of area controlled. If I had gone out farther sooner, I would have had about the same number of good green worlds but would have controlled a much larger area. With so many more systems, my overall planetary population would have been about half again as high despite the average planet value being lower.

The only way I can see a 16% IS working is with wide hab settings and a plan to quietly occupy a corner and just keep building. If you try this, you should not be -f; though as Dogthinkers points out a full HP doesn't really suit IS racial abilities. After all, once you are ready to come out of your corner you will need to build up new systems quickly. Also, you need good resources from population in case your neighbors aren't the type to let you sit quietly and need to be convinced otherwise.

Report message to a moderator

Previous Topic: FF
Next Topic: SuperFreighter design?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon Dec 18 09:24:46 EST 2017