Home » Primary Racial Traits » IT » IT Race needs help
| IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 11:48  |
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I'm just getting re-accquainted with Stars! and have drawn this up:
IT
IFE, OBRM, NAS, RS (GR?)
.33 to 6.8 / -128 to 176 / 26 to 100
1 in 2 hab
18%
2500/1 resource
12/9/12 checked
10/3/12 <---- advice here?
Weapons, Propulsion, Construction cheap
Bio expensive
This works fairly well, but I'd like to make it better. maybe faster at start up. I mostly have problems shipping colonists from HW to new planets. That might just be a skill issue, but advice/comments are appreciated.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 13:20  |
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 vonKreedon |
 | Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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I'm not sure the IFE is a good fit for IT since most of your movement will be relatively short distances from your gates. Perhaps replace IFE with ISB and NRSE; ISB because you need to build orbitals quickly, something the 20% savings helps with, and the SD gives you the ability to quickly start building things as well as better resist destruction in the early game, and NRSE for the points and the speed (both movement and battle) of the Interspace-10 at Prop 11. Definitely take RS.
With a 1 in 2 Hab you should consider OBRM to get the points and the increased pop/growth rate. IT generally likes remote mining because they can gate the massive RMs, but at this hab RM is not an issue unless you degrade your mines for the RW points, something I don't recomend. The hab is also overly right shifted, your Rad gives no room for terra to the right; you can still get 1 in 2 with: .29-6.32/-132-172/19-93 and have good terra on both sides of each variable, but I might go with: .21-3,68/-148-132/22-90, which still gives you 1 in 2, but gives better RW points and better bell curve positions for Grav and Temp (Rad is not bell curved). I like the PGR.
Since you must ramp up your infrastructure quickly I'd change the econ settings to:
2500/1
12/8/15 checked
12/3/15 (the wisdom is to generally keep the mine effeciency at 10 and increase the number of mines, but I like a high effiency mining system AND lots of mines  )
The tech I would take Weap, Con, and En cheap, and El and Bio expensive. Plan to trade for the El.
This should start a little faster for you since the factories are cheaper and the mines more efficient, plus you'll get gates up faster with the ISB so you'll be able to expand faster.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 June 2007 13:21] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 15:39 |
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I've looked over your advice and have come up with this:
IT
OBRM, NAS, RS
.29 to 3.92 / Temp Immune / 23, to 83
15%
2500/1
11/8/15 checked
11/3/15
Weapons cheap
Bio and Electronics expensive.
I dunno if it was worth it for the immunity, but I do notice a lot more high value planets nearby. about 6 50% plus within 200 ly. of either starting world in a normal density map. is that a good amount?
[Updated on: Wed, 27 June 2007 15:43]
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 16:59 |
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| velvetthroat57 wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 10:27 |
What is it you want this race to do?
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What a great question!
The answer to that question really is they key. I think it was Micha who suggested that in your initial design your colonists are too inefficient to be an HG and the factories are two low to be an HP. HGs grow fairly quickly and can be aggressive early (not as fast as a true QS or -f, but they are still early enough). HPs grow slowly and require a decent amount of diplomacy to get to the point where their resource curve really kicks in.
It's going to be hard for folks to give you meaningful advice without knowing how you'd like to play this race. If you want to be the diplomactic mister nicy-nice until 2475 or if you want to intersettle with a neighbor and beat up on someone together...knowing that will dictate a lot of the changes folks suggest.
I know this isn't directly helping your race design here and apologies for waxing philisophical, but there are two approaches to race design. You either pick a design (e.g. HG, HP, QS, -f), figure out how you want to play it then tweak the design accordingly or you think about the kind of game you want to have first, then you choose the design and tweak accordingly. I used to do it the first way, but now that I'm actually playing real opponents I think going about it the second way is most effective.
That said, I'm relatively new to this so I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of our more seasoned veterans.
Cheers,
Thor
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 17:11 |
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| vonKreedon |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA | |
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| Thor wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 13:59 |
SNIP
You either pick a design (e.g. HG, HP, QS, -f), figure out how you want to play it then tweak the design accordingly or you think about the kind of game you want to have first, then you choose the design and tweak accordingly. I used to do it the first way, but now that I'm actually playing real opponents I think going about it the second way is most effective.
SNIP
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I strongly agree with you that it is best to start with the game context, then think about how you want to play, and then start to design your race.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 17:25 |
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Well, I was looking for a race that could progress technologically fairly quickly with a wide hab range.
I chose IT because of their ability to move around fairly quickly and the starting tech in Propulsion and Construction.
I have mostly played against computer opponents, and only gotten 50 turns or so into some MP games with friends, so I generally go for a quick, defensive hold on as many planets as possible. I suppose that would translate to diplomatic type of play.
The game context currently is a 3-4 player match on an uncertain map setup.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 17:42 |
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| mlaub |
| Lieutenant |
Messages: 744
Registered: November 2003
Location: MN, USA | |
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| Micha wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 15:14 |
Growth is really low, I would not go below 17% ...
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Yea, I agree with that, even though lower will work in larger universes. Which brings up the questions:
* What size universe
* What is the density
* How many players
* What are the rules that might effect this race (No allies, no chaff etc..)
* What is your play style
* Victory conditions
All of this can effect race design.
Here is a HP race that was designed for a Huge Dense. It was my only serious competition in a particular game.
SD
IFE NRSE OBRM LSP
.31g <-> 3.68g
-116c <-> 124c
21mR <-> 81mR
15%
1/2500 15/7/25 yes 17/5/12
All Expensive
Start at 3 checked
The low growth seemed fine with max econ. Pretty wide hab, with 1 in 4. His tech lagged behind mine, but HP's have that issue. If he would have waited for Nubs, before attacking me, he might have done much better. The amount of Arm BB's he produced was staggering.
I might be inclined to tweak it some, but it performed very well for that universe.
-Matt
Global Warming - A climatic change eagerly awaited by most Minnesotans.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 18:06 |
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Well, as far as allies, I'll probably be getting ganged up on by 2 other people and be on my own.
Pretty much a no-rules encounter overall.
I'm gonna guess a medium or large map with normal density.
Mebbe this should be moved to the acadamy since it's not about IT specifically, although I am still set on that PRT.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 18:43 |
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| velvetthroat57 |
 | Master Chief Petty Officer |
Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005 | |
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Yeah that was my great question! 
Now that we have acknowledged my greatness, lets move on to discussing the benefits of CE for an IT. Isn't that a great LRT? Not only half priced engines but it gives RW points!
(Side Note: I would recommend against ISB for ITs but the 1/2500 pop efficiency might necessitate that.)
Here is an example of an HG-lite race that I might play, especially if I want a fast start and think I might end up in an early war:
IT
CE, OBRM, NAS, RS
0.33g-0.73g, -120C-120C, immune
19%
1/1000
12/9/12, no g, 11/3/13
Weap cheap, rest exp, exp starts at 3.
Upside
(1) This race starts with the Radiating Ram engine and since it is rad immune, that will be the principal engine the race uses for the first 50 years.
(2) It also starts with high gravity terraforming (+7) and that is the main field it needs to terraform to improve its planets.
(3) The low grav band gives it a shot at intersettling with neighbors and avoiding an early bloodbath.
Downside
(a) Not as many factories operated as a true HG.
(b) Expensive tech which helps get out of the gate fast will require assistance to finish research in a timely manner.
This race can manage 50k by 2450 in real games but even so it will want an ally. Preferably one with pen scanners.
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 19:56 |
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| velvetthroat57 wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 15:43 |
Weap cheap, rest exp, exp starts at 3.
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I'm trying to understand this part. What is it, specifically, you're looking to get with the exp starts at three?
You already have Prop 7 and Const 5 and you won't get anything for weapons since it's cheap. That leaves energy and bio, and I can't think of anything there worth 60 RW points there; and elec. Now, elec is nice because it gives you something better than the bat scanner, but is that what you're spending the 60 RW points for?
More curious than anything.
Cheers,
Thor
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Wed, 27 June 2007 21:34 |
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| velvetthroat57 wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 17:41 |
Exp at 3 gets you three things each worth a little bit that in total are worth it to me.
(1) Better starting scanners for finding the enemy on your initial scouts.
(2) Better engines to begin with. Your initial ships are built with DDL 7s which is a shame but any ship you build starts with the RRHS.
(3) Grav terraforming 7 without having to spend a point on Bio and much closer to Bio 4 which is the last one you need.
If you don't want starts at 3, you need to immediately spend resources getting En 2 for the engine and then accept bat scanners on your scouts. Certainly doable but it delays initial scout production by a couple years (or more if STA or not AccBBS). I prefer the faster start 'expensive at 3' gives.
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I think I get it know - I hadn't taken IFE's role into account until you mapped it all out.
By not taking IFE you get 74 points in the RW, and by using those points to pay for starts at 3, you get the benefit of a pretty good FM replacement.
As you also mention the bonus is you get better scanners (which you'd have to pay 280 resources for) and bio which you'll need for basic terraforming and getting you 1000 resources closer to Bio4.
And since starts @3 costs only 60 resources, you get to spend those extra 14 resources on something else useful (e.g. mines).
I hadn't considered that approach before. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers,
Thor
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Thu, 28 June 2007 09:00 |
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Okay, I think I've got something:
IT
IFE, ISB, OBRM, RS
.59 to 1.92 / Temp Immune / 30 to 74
1 in 5
17%
2500/1
12/9/18 checked
12/3/17
Con & Prop normal
rest expensive start@3
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Thu, 28 June 2007 10:15 |
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so, factoryless is -f right? just to get my acronymns/codewords down.
^^ I'll go with that then. am I looking at 1/1000 pop efficiency or should I use the points to go lower?
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Thu, 28 June 2007 10:23 |
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| Fenrir wrote on Thu, 28 June 2007 07:15 |
^^ I'll go with that then. am I looking at 1/1000 pop efficiency or should I use the points to go lower?
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Stick with the 1/1000 for factoryless (or anything other than a full-blooded 1/2500 HP in most cases). Some will say 1/900 affords a faster start up, but the 200 point cost in the race wizard is too prohibitive. Better to use those points on hab.
Cheers,
Thor
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| Re: IT Race needs help |
Fri, 29 June 2007 09:50 |
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so, in game, just build less factories or none at all?
And, so, does this mean I should shuttle colonists around more instead of worrying so much about Germanium?
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) along with mines better than 11/3/18 ... probably higher efficiency and less mines since HPs go for the long run ... 14/3/15 or so ... (this is more expensive)
