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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dogthinkers is currently offline Dogthinkers

 
Commander

Messages: 1316
Registered: August 2003
Location: Hiding from Meklar
Fenrir wrote on Fri, 29 June 2007 23:50

so, in game, just build less factories or none at all?

And, so, does this mean I should shuttle colonists around more instead of worrying so much about Germanium?


Factoryless means exactly that Wink

With 5/25/x factory settings, it's costing you 25 resources to build each factory, but they only produce 0.5 resources each per year... Build a factory straight away, at 2400... It'll break even on turn 2450, if you're still alive by then Laughing

Building warships will give a faster return on investment Twisted Evil

And yes, population management is absolutely crucial to playing a factoryless race.


[Updated on: Fri, 29 June 2007 10:35]

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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
velvetthroat57 is currently offline velvetthroat57

 
Master Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 111
Registered: June 2005
Fenrir wrote on Fri, 29 June 2007 09:50

so, in game, just build less factories or none at all?


None at all. Ever.

Quote:

And, so, does this mean I should shuttle colonists around more instead of worrying so much about Germanium?


Don't worry about Germ at all as a -f. Not during the initial expansion. If there is a border world with great mineral concentrations, then grab it before the other guy but the important thing is growing your people.

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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joseph is currently offline joseph

 
Lt. Junior Grade

Messages: 440
Registered: May 2003
Location: Bristol
Fenrir
Factoryless is exactly what is says on the tin - No Factories.
You should never under any circumstances build them (takes about 50 years for the resource investment to be repayed).

And yes - its all about shuttling colonists about. You should only move germ when you want to build with it (treat it the same as you would treat iron and bora).



Joseph
"Can burn the land and boil the sea. You cant take the Stars from me"

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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vonKreedon is currently offline vonKreedon

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 610
Registered: March 2003
Location: Seattle, WA USA
Regarding -f and Germ, you can take high Germ concentration planets and then use them as diplomatic bargaining chips.

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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor is currently offline Thor

 
Crewman 1st Class

Messages: 29
Registered: May 2007
Location: California

Dogthinkers wrote on Fri, 29 June 2007 07:33

Building warships will give a faster return on investment Twisted Evil

Therein lies the key to a factoryless (aka -f) race - you have to be aggressive early, because you need to have many more planets than non -f races to be competitive.

The good news is that while QS, HG and HP races are busy spending all of their resources on building factories and using up germanium, you get to put all of your resources into aggressive scouting, fast transports (the fuel mizer is a must; improved starbases are highly recommended), some mines but mostly tech. Go after an early tech breakpoint (Yak DDs, Bazooka frigates, Colloidal cruisers - the earlier the better, really) and disrupt shipping and/or go all out against a neighbor.

I think I recall you mentioning there are just a couple of opponents. If so, you won't need any diplomacy. If there are more, you'll probably want to get at least a NAP going with a couple of folks, but since you have a lot of cheap tech, you have a lot to offer folks, so agreements should be easy.

Muy importante - Factoryless races thrive in tiny and small universes. They can do OK in medium, but it is much harder to be successful in large or huge.

Quote:

And yes, population management is absolutely crucial to playing a factoryless race.

Good pop management is important for any race, but Dogthinker is spot on with this - since pop is your exclusive fuel for your economy, population management is indeed absolutely critical for success.

I played my first duel using a -f IS and it was a blast (won that one). Played me second using a -f JOAT and am getting my butt kicked - lousy starting position and a vastly superior opponent, but I'll be using it again, that's for sure.

Have fun!

Cheers,
Thor
...

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Re: IT Race needs help Fri, 29 June 2007 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Fenrir wrote on Fri, 29 June 2007 15:50

And, so, does this mean I should shuttle colonists around more instead of worrying so much about Germanium?

Last -f I played had so much germ laying around compared to bor (production of gate-able beamer CCs and BBs to cover my vast territory) that I used all that germ for large packet strike. Smile

mch

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Re: IT Race needs help Sat, 30 June 2007 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fenrir is currently offline Fenrir

 
Crewman 2nd Class

Messages: 16
Registered: June 2007

Thanks for all your help guys! we're probably going to get started sometime this week, so I just need to tighten down the hab scheme:

I can't seem to get much better than:

.36-2.72 / Immune / 21-79
19% growth.

and that's with all tech expensive (start at 3). Will this work alright? The immunity really helps, but I'm not liking the idea of all expensive techs.

suggestions?



Don't be afraid to point me in the right direction. ~^.^~

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Re: IT Race needs help Sat, 30 June 2007 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
Fenrir wrote on Sat, 30 June 2007 14:30

Thanks for all your help guys! we're probably going to get started sometime this week, so I just need to tighten down the hab scheme:

I can't seem to get much better than:

.36-2.72 / Immune / 21-79
19% growth.


You don't need 1/3 habs with an immunity. 1/4 is fine. There will be plenty of nice big greens for you to colonise.

Quote:

and that's with all tech expensive (start at 3). Will this work alright? The immunity really helps, but I'm not liking the idea of all expensive techs.

suggestions?


All expensive techs for a -f defeats the object of the race. You should be able to expand quickly and research quickly so you can kill off your neighbours before they have a chance to catch up.

I recently played this -f IT race:

IFE, ISB, OBRM, NAS, RS
0.92 - 6.56
8 - 184
Rad immune
1/4 habs
PGR 19%

1/1000
5/25/5
g not checked
11/3/10

Weap/Con cheap. Rest expensive.
Start @ 3 checked.

I didn't manage to colonise all the greens I found before the game ended.

Rough scheme of play:

Build lots of scouts. At least 6 in the 1st two years. Use some scouts to scout quickly further afield, by-passing nearer planets, so that you can get to planets in a good location first.

Prepare for colonising selected planets by building a few escort DD's to go with your 100k pop you will be sending to those choice worlds. Send some minerals too so you can build an OF with gate quickly.

Colonise toward the opps initially. You can colonise planets behind you later. Exception would be a breeder world. If random events on, it's worth building colonisers to colonise "safe" worlds to try and pick up tech.

Build Pop. Research weapons and con. Aim to have con10 and Weaps 12 by about 2428 at the latest. Con 10 means you can use inf/300 gate to move your Jihad CC's about. Only other useful research is bio 4 so you can build minelayers. You should have an enemy in mind by now if you haven't already built an FF horde and started attacking the opps (wea
...




Goober.

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Re: IT Race needs help Thu, 19 July 2007 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
My pathetic attempt at an HG IT - please feel free to criticise, as that is welcomed before I play the thing live Very Happy Razz

IT
CE; NAS; RS (Those that hate CE can swap it for OBRM Smile)
G: 1.20 - 3.92
T: -12 - 164
R: Imm
1 in 6
PGR 18% (Those that want 19% can keep CE and take OBRM as well ... and left shift Temp a click Smile)
Pop: 1/1000
F: 12/9/13 G box NOT checked
M: 10/3/15
Tech: W cheap; En+C normal; all else expensive; +3checked

Why is the Grav narrow when it is Exp??? Because it will hit probably 12 before En hits 10 and probably hit 16 around the same time as En, and then probably not move again for a long time. Smile
Why not Con cheap and En exp?? Cos I like my En Smile

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Re: IT Race needs help Thu, 19 July 2007 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goober is currently offline goober

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 175
Registered: December 2003
Location: +10
Soobie wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 21:29

My pathetic attempt at an HG IT - please feel free to criticise, as that is welcomed before I play the thing live Very Happy Razz

IT
CE; NAS; RS (Those that hate CE can swap it for OBRM Smile)
G: 1.20 - 3.92
T: -12 - 164
R: Imm
1 in 6
PGR 18% (Those that want 19% can keep CE and take OBRM as well ... and left shift Temp a click Smile)
Pop: 1/1000
F: 12/9/13 G box NOT checked
M: 10/3/15
Tech: W cheap; En+C normal; all else expensive; +3checked

Why is the Grav narrow when it is Exp??? Because it will hit probably 12 before En hits 10 and probably hit 16 around the same time as En, and then probably not move again for a long time. Smile
Why not Con cheap and En exp?? Cos I like my En Smile


I have -70 RW points when I configure an IT to these settings ...

Have I missed something?



Goober.

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Re: IT Race needs help Thu, 19 July 2007 08:34 Go to previous message
Soobie

 
Officer Cadet 3rd Year

Messages: 270
Registered: May 2007
Location: Australia
goober wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 21:24

Soobie wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 21:29

My pathetic attempt at an HG IT - please feel free to criticise, as that is welcomed before I play the thing live Very Happy Razz

IT
CE; NAS; RS (Those that hate CE can swap it for OBRM Smile)
G: 1.20 - 3.92
T: -12 - 164
R: Imm
1 in 6
PGR 18% (Those that want 19% can keep CE and take OBRM as well ... and left shift Temp a click Smile)
Pop: 1/1000
F: 12/9/13 G box NOT checked
M: 10/3/15
Tech: W cheap; En+C normal; all else expensive; +3checked

Why is the Grav narrow when it is Exp??? Because it will hit probably 12 before En hits 10 and probably hit 16 around the same time as En, and then probably not move again for a long time. Smile
Why not Con cheap and En exp?? Cos I like my En Smile


I have -70 RW points when I configure an IT to these settings ...

Have I missed something?



Yes, you are right: W+En+C normal. Embarassed *goes back to the drawing board*

Edit: Found my error


[Updated on: Thu, 19 July 2007 09:42]

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