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Testing... Wed, 18 April 2007 20:20 Go to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
I have made a new race, supposed to be a IT HG, I have run it through a testbed, it got 2500 at 2420, 4000 at 2430, 11k at 2440, it was at that point that I stopped playing and just generated turns. 11K at year 40 isnt all that great I know, but I suspect that is more my playing style than anything else. I also had some bad luck with planets early on, didnt find even a yellow till I had pulled 3 groups of colonists off of my homeworld. In any case, by year 50, my score was:
Planets:32
Starbases:4 (I had 8 forts on other planets though)
unarmed: 158
Escort:2
capital:0
resouces:24K

tech was:
energy:6
propulsion:6
weapon:14
Construction: 13
Electronics:7
Biotech: 3

I had armageddon missle battleships on year 60, with 43K
Omega nubians I had on year 70, with 52K
Peaked out at about 88K with 32 planets, I could still colonize about double what I had if I wanted to take the time.

My race design was this:

IT
NRSE, NAS

0.78-1.76
IMMUNE
70-100
1/11 19%

1/1000
12/9/16 3g
10/5/10

weapons and construction cheap, rest expensive
start at 3 checked

The only thing I might change would be taking OBRM to get better mines. I had planned to use my gates to get better use of the remote miners, but it turned out to be a bit too much for me, I wasnt able to run them right. However, I still didnt have much of a problem with minerals. So, some freindly ripping apart of my race would be nice, also, I would like to (if possible) get a recording of an advanced played going through a testbed to learn what I am doing wrong.

Forgot to mention, all my worlds were over 90%, about half were 100%


[Updated on: Wed, 18 April 2007 20:27]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

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Re: Testing... Thu, 19 April 2007 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iztok is currently offline iztok

 
Commander

Messages: 1211
Registered: April 2003
Location: Slovenia, Europe
Hi!
dethdukk wrote on Thu, 19 April 2007 02:20

rad 70-100

That's the first weakness. You're losing all terra to the right side of your rad range.

Quote:

hab 1/11, 19% PGR

Another one: with such a low hab you'll have severe crowding of your population == lot of lost growth.

Quote:

12/9/16 3g
10/5/10

Good factories, weak mines. Even if you want to remote-mine, you still need better mines, or else your initial factories on HW and first few plansts will grow very slow. Try a testbed with low iron and germ on both starting planets and you'll see what I meant. I bet you'll not have enough minerals even to support colony drive. Well, after reproducing your race it seems you left 45 RW points. For HW at 30 mineral conc's that's about 34 points highter conc of iron and 11 points higher germ and bora, so this should help a bit. Not sure, if enough Confused

You have quite fast HG, crippled with low minerals and low hab. So what to change?

Without radically changing the design, I'd try this:
- take LSP (you'll have crowding anyway, this will just delay it for 2 turns),
- move rad 12 clicks left (to use rad terra-11, increasing number of habitable planets from 19% to 24.4%), and
- increase mines to 12.
Now you're left with 15 points. With that you can increase hab range in grav by 1 click getting 1-in-10, or leave them for better MCs on your HW. This changed design will have two more turns to find 5% more habitable planets, and will mine 20% more minerals each turn. Not a big change, but almost for free.

HTH and BR, Iztok
...



[Updated on: Thu, 19 April 2007 02:48]

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Re: Testing... Thu, 19 April 2007 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
Quote:

Another one: with such a low hab you'll have severe crowding of your population == lot of lost growth.



Actually, I never had a problem with my growth in any but that one game. I was always able to find a nice plump world before I had a problem, odd as it seems. Other than that, your advice seems sound, and I will probably implement some of it. I will be taking OBRM, since I cant run remote mining effectively, and will just go with normal mines because of that. that should allow me to get my mines to 10/3/15, along with some habitability editing. The reason I had rad all the way over, was because I wanted to use the radiating ramscoop for colonist transportation, but that plan changed, so now it is just a disadvantage. Thank you for your opinion.

Revised race:

IT
NRSE, NAS, LSP, OBRM

0.83-1.84
IMMUNE
58-88
1/11 19%

1/1000
12/9/16 3g
10/4/16

weapons and construction cheap, rest expensive
start at 3 checked

Any new opinions?

Another possible design, iztoks idea

IT
NRSE, NAS, LSP

0.78-1.74
IMMUNE
58-88
1/11 19%

1/1000
12/9/16 3g
10/5/12

weapons and construction cheap, rest expensive
start at 3 checked

again, opinions?


[Updated on: Thu, 19 April 2007 08:59]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

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Re: Testing... Thu, 19 April 2007 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
I would respect as dangerous neighbour ... something in the lines of:

IT,
NRSE, OBRM, NAS, RS
0.21 to 1.32; -140 to 140; 51 to 85
18% 1 in 7
1000; 14/8/15 [v]; 10/3/15
weapons cheap, construction normal, starts @ 3 checked

It is design made around the idea that IT manages pop effortlessly so why the immunity? Just fill the little greens up and with 14/8/15 factories they are not THAT little. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Testing... Fri, 20 April 2007 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
Kotk wrote on Thu, 19 April 2007 19:40

weapons cheap, construction normal, starts @ 3 checked


Starts @ 3 costs a lot of points, and all you get are energy, elec and bio 3. What do you get that makes it worth the cost?

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Re: Testing... Fri, 20 April 2007 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
again, the remote mining was the original plan. with starts at 3, I can buy mini-miners with the second generation of remote miner from the beggining of the game. this race is actually quite messed up if I was using it in any way other than remote mining. I think it will have to be edited either 2 ways. either I take ARM, and take LSP to make up for it, or I forget about remote mining altogether and go for a normal HG.


If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

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Re: Testing... Sun, 22 April 2007 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Staz wrote on Fri, 20 April 2007 21:53

Starts @ 3 costs a lot of points, and all you get are energy, elec and bio 3. What do you get that makes it worth the cost?


Electronics gives scouts that see at least something. It is usually safe to assume that IT is blind. Why not to surprize them?

Energy gives cow hide shields. Fine shield on frigates or privateers. With so narrow hab and only warp 7 engine i would escort colony fleets and shield the ships. Someone may kamikadze to get the colony ship out of picture.

Bio gives Gravity terraform +/- 7. It may improve my second world by significant margin.

As for that remote mining ... Confused I dont get the idea. Some sort of One - immune HG IT ... and it remote mines? Laughing Why?

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Re: Testing... Thu, 26 April 2007 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
Kotk wrote on Sun, 22 April 2007 20:15


Electronics gives scouts that see at least something. It is usually safe to assume that IT is blind. Why not to surprize them?

Energy gives cow hide shields. Fine shield on frigates or privateers. With so narrow hab and only warp 7 engine i would escort colony fleets and shield the ships. Someone may kamikadze to get the colony ship out of picture.

Bio gives Gravity terraform +/- 7. It may improve my second world by significant margin.


Elec-1 gives Rhinos, and I would tend to research that early on before building my main wave of scouts.

For terra, it takes a while before a non -F is ready for terraforming, and Bio-2 is enough for +/- 7 anyway.

For shields, simply having any shields is more than most people bother with early on. Having 40dp rather than 25 is probably marginal. By the time it really matters (FF stacks) you probably want Wolverines.

So, while I'm not saying there aren't advantages, I still don't see how it justifies spending all those points to get elec-1, bio-2 before you need it, and 15dp of shields for ships that probably don't need them?

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Re: Testing... Fri, 27 April 2007 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kotk

 
Commander

Messages: 1227
Registered: May 2003
Staz wrote on Thu, 26 April 2007 21:10

So, while I'm not saying there aren't advantages, I still don't see how it justifies spending all those points to get elec-1, bio-2 before you need it, and 15dp of shields for ships that probably don't need them?


Scout wave goes off asap with 1 in 7 hab? Bad hab secondary starts to terra around 2410-2415? You discarded energy 3 but energy 2 is anyway handy for convincing neighbour WM that you are cool friend to have. All advantages i told about are meant to use before year 2420.

I dont iron that the things are absolute must to have. Just help. If i dont have that stuff i do not suggest to stop with such a QS factories and long initial colony trips from building factories or privateers. Even if i did then weapons 5 are bit higher in my wish list.

We talk about ~45 points. Feel free to unclick it and improve construction, energy or electronics cost instead. Why to argue if it is crap or edge. Wink

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Re: Testing... Fri, 27 April 2007 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Staz is currently offline Staz

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 514
Registered: November 2003
Location: UK
Kotk wrote on Fri, 27 April 2007 09:08

We talk about ~45 points. Feel free to unclick it and improve construction, energy or electronics cost instead. Why to argue if it is crap or edge. Wink


Yeah, there's not much in it. But it's 59 points according to the race wizard, which buys you one of...

* ISB, -4 points (move temp band up by 1)
* Ram scoops, +26 points (+1 fact operated, temp 1 click wider)
* 19% growth, +1 fact operated
* +2 fact, +1 mine operated
* Improve 1 tech, as you say, but -10 points

Any of which seems a better deal to me.


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Re: Testing... Fri, 18 May 2007 13:02 Go to previous message
dethdukk is currently offline dethdukk

 
Chief Warrant Officer 3

Messages: 200
Registered: June 2005
Quote:

Yeah, there's not much in it. But it's 59 points according to the race wizard, which buys you one of...

* ISB, -4 points (move temp band up by 1)
* Ram scoops, +26 points (+1 fact operated, temp 1 click wider)
* 19% growth, +1 fact operated
* +2 fact, +1 mine operated
* Improve 1 tech, as you say, but -10 points

Any of which seems a better deal to me.


Actually, ISB is not as important to IT's as most peaple think. In fact, after playing with it for a while, I have found that IT races tend to be better without it, because their Econ is better. Ram scoops, who cares? It's an IT race, they have stargates and the antimatter fuel generator. 19% growth, as Iztok said before, its a little high for a race without many colonizable planets. Also, for this race, the difference between 18% and 19% is negligable. Factories and mines... maybe, but it slows the ramp-up of the race, which is a little slow to begin with, due to needing to find planets. Improve one tech, eh. All I really want is Con and Weap, it is not ment to be a really long-term race, though it could very well be.

Now for the reasons for taking it. Having an electronics boost is amazing. Especially with the NAS boosting your sight range, you can see half the map with your starting planets alone. The gravity +7 teraforming is everything. With such a little habitability bar, I can terraform a 25% planet to 90% or better with only 10 terraforming. Also, I get rad terraforming +3 with onlt one level of cheap reasearch, and +7 when I get to level 5. You will notice, if you actually make the hab ranges in a stars race creator, that I mad the Grav wider than the Rad to take advantage of the early terraforming. Its really nice to see all of those 40-50%'s turn into 100%'s in a few short turns. The energy doesnt help much early in the game though. I cant think of any others currently.
...



[Updated on: Fri, 18 May 2007 13:16]




If you cannot love, you will always hate, and in hate there is only death.
[img]http://dragcave.net/image/XIJh.gif[/img] <--- is teh dragon!

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