Home » Old Game Forums » Bab5v2 team » Talking to Mars (or rather about Mars)
| Talking to Mars (or rather about Mars) |
Fri, 30 March 2007 14:59  |
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The ships Mars is using to attack the Gaim are all low-tech.
IMHO it is very risky to use yaki-DDs not for skirmishing but for planetary attack. Just one weap level up there is the Black Jack, the most deadly orbital weapon against range-1-attacks. Which might indicate that Mars aren't very experienced.
Nevertheless it looks like Mars really hasn't gotten any tech from the Shadows, a rather confusing discovery leading to the question:
Is Mars an ally of the Shadows or not?
On the other hand, the Shadows' request that Gaim and Mars sort out their conflict indicates they are allied.
Perhaps they have the same communication problems, the Gaim run into when contacting Mars? Or are the Shadows that far behind? At gate-planet Kepler we can see that the Shadows are still busy transfering weap10 to (probably) the Dilgar.
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| Re: Talking to Mars (or rather about Mars) |
Sun, 01 April 2007 10:58  |
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Recent exchanges between Llort, Mars, Shadows, Gaim (Long):
| Llort wrote on Thu, 29 March 2007 15:36 |
Subject: Babylon5 2458
Greetings,
As you may know I have agreed to work towards a closer relationship with the Shadows. The Vorlon alliance is fast becoming a steamroller & I am interested to do my best to stop that.
As part of that relationship it is obviously advantageous for both of us to also establish a better relationship. Therefore, I would like to offer you a NAP. You can suggest the length but I think we should do it asap - the Vorlons are growing stronger every year.
Is that agreeable?
John/Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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| Martians wrote on Thu, 29 March 2007 23:40 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 2458
You invaded Martian territory.
At least, we do not want you to be located within the martian territory. We are going to remove you from that area. Other then that we have no quarrel with you and would be willing to discuss terms.
The Martians...
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| Llort wrote on Fri, 30 March 2007 8:50 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 2458
I made sure not to colonise any planet that I thought would be uncomfortably close to you & I plan no further colonisation north of Arcturius on the western edge or north of Shank in the more central north. Skunk & Lynx are among my most valuable planets to me - if you could let me keep them I would appreciate it greatly. However, if you cannot do so I would evacuate them for the sake of the greater good - my bases will deploy this year.
I have a lot of intel in Vorlon controlled areas and they now control a massive empire reaching from the extreme west to almost the eastern edge & north well beyond Magellan. As a CA & 2 x CA boosted JOATs they are going to be nearly impossible to stop even if we (Shadow Alliance & Independants) are on good terms let alone if we are bickering between us & spending our valuable econ on ships that will soon be obsolete. If the Vorlons concentrate on the objective (defeat Omega) & we are elsewhere fighting each other then the Vorlons have an easy victory.
So I implore you to allow us to stay at Skunk & Lynx but will cede them if you insist. Can I suggest a 15 year NAP with 3 year exit to get things going asap & we can extend it any time as we demonstrate our good will in the meantime.
John/Llort
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| Llort wrote on Fri, 30 March 2007 13:01 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 - game balance
Greetings to the Shadows,
I assume that you are aware of the Vorlon fleet headed for Smorgasbord (Drakh HW). It is comprised of beam & missile BBs, B-17 bombers, beam CCs, chaff, colonisers, LFs, SFXs & chaff. I'm sure that the Drakh do not have the capability to repulse it.
My HW is only 220ly from Smorgasbord & I too would have great trouble in defeating that fleet. If I don't get weapons soon I will be unable to help you or myself in any great way.
I have earlier (before I was even aware of this peril) sent an email to the Free Martians offering a NAP. Though I hate to do it I even offered to give up 2 of my planets as part of that agreement (if he insists).
Will I get weapons asap or will my Yak/Beta frigates/cruisers be facing battleships?
I forgot to say this in my email to the Martians but obviously the NAP is useless if I'm not to recieve help against the Vorlons. I may as well offer to fight on the Vorlon side since otherwise I face extinction.
Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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| Shadows wrote on Sat, 31 March 2007 2:41 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 - game balance
Even Shadows would not currently be able to defeat such a fleet. The Vorlon edge is way too great.
Shadows will transfer 6 destroyers at planets in the Shadow sector next cycle and begin supplying weapons technology. We shall encourage Free Mars to accept the NAP with the planet offer.
Kind Regards,
Shadows…
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| Martians wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 9:21 |
Subject: RE: Babylon5 2458
Hail John of the Llort,
As you no doubt have suspected, the Martians have consulted with their allies on the proper response to your envoy.
The Little Green Men have had much discussion regarding the response from their allies and the Martian Response to it.
The Martians have decided that it is in the best interest of all involved to work with you the Llort and for the most part with the rest of the IA group.
We are not sure what your relationship with the the rest of that group is. However, we are willing to enter into your purposed NAP agreement.
We are willing to let you stay at lynx. The other should be vacated and turned over to the Dilgar. In order for that to happen you must work with the Drahk and assist their exodus to the Northern realm. This exodus should not be hindered by the rest of the IA.
We are even willing to work with the Gaim and be more sociable.  Actually if they want to keep Rutabaga they must give up Draft to the Martians. Otherwise we will remove them. The Rutabaga /Misery cluster is the territory of the Martians. We are willing to let them stay but we want a world that will work for us. If this is not agreed upon then the Martians will remove the Gaim from the Rutabaga/Misery cluster. However, we will not pursue further actions against the Gaim.
How does this sound to you?
The Little Green Men
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| Llort wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 10:03 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 2460
Obviously you can't give up Draft (which is even better than Rutebaga) - too good & too close to Abdera. Maybe you should offer something else since it seems to me that buying time is especially important to you since your excellent econ allows you to make faster progress.
Try offering Frederick? (LOL ... no good for the Martians themselves tho). If no good then something else not too close to Abdera.
I know exact habs for Dilgars but only the centres for Mars. I'll check out possible planets a little later & make suggestions (gotta go to the airport shortly).
Having said all that, maybe there is also a question about whether the Martians can remove Rutebaga & the cost on both sides?
I will delay my reply until I have your input on the matter.
The Drakh reference. What do you make of that?
John/Llort
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| Llort wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 14:15 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 2460
Rutebaga is deep red for the Martians & -5/39 for the Dilgars!
Why not offer Frederick which is also red for the Martians but 45/82 for the Dilgars.
Failing that you could offer Grep which is -2/47 for the Martians & 68/92 for the Dilgars.
A 3rd alternative is Mu: -6/42 for the Martians, deep red for Dilgars.
Note: values are based on Martians having 60-clicks wide for all habs (Dilgar habs are known) & +/-7 terraforming ability for all habs.
John/Llort
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| Gaim wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 15:54 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 2460
Thanks for talking to them, as far as I see it that´s not even negotiating. I´m tempted to put the Gaim Tranlsatronic into rude mode and tell them to suck wet farts out of dead pigeons... 
Rutabega they were informed of before, never objected, suddenly they want it even though they can´t use it.
-giving up Draft for it is a joke
-Frederick the Dilgar are already colonizing next turn
As for you other alternatives:
-Grep isn´t really for me to give away, I wonder if they haven´t colonized it already anyway
-Mu they can have, even though I was building a colonizer next turn (strategic position and good Iron)
So I don´t see much of a chance for a trade if Mu doesn´t work, well, then Rutabega will have to make life difficult for them for another decade or so before they can take it out. I guess once they have CCs the dock will no longer be enough but they´ve been putting a lot of econ into taking it out, might as well go on...
I´ll write them a mail later (ccing the shadows to show my good faith efforts) and offer the place.
-The drakh reference I don´t get either, did they mean Gaim?
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| Gaim wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 16:06 |
Subject: Babylon: Rutabega & Co.
<Gaim Translatronic 0.60>
Dear Little Green Men,
the Llort have informed us that you want compensation in return for letting us stay at Rutabega because it is in "your" space.
We won´t go into detail of "your" space at this point and want to raise the historic fact again that you were informed beforehand about the colonizing mission and never objected then.
But in the spirit of a peaceful solution we´re willing to talk about a trade.
Your idea of giving up Draft for it, a breeder 50 ly from our HW is so ridiculous that we won´t even dignify it. If that´s your idea of trading we better stop right here.
We are willing to offer you Mu instead which the Llort scientists estimate as yellow now but with a good potential for you. Since Rutabega is also a not exactly a holiday destination for our people that sounds like a fair trade.
If you have any other, *realistic* suggestions we´re open to negotiations, but if your only option is Draft our people at Rutabega will just have to put on their hard-hats and wait for the bombs to rain.
A copy of this message has been sent to the Llort and Shadows to keep them informed of the progress.
Gaim Council of Hive Queens?
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| Llort wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 16:26 |
Subject: Re: Babylon5 2460
Hi,
While it's true that the Dilgars are about to colonise Frederick they do not actually have the right to do so based upon the fact that your HW is the closest one (i.e. it's in your space) so I think that it's reasonable to point that out & suggest that you will not contest it as part of our hoped for improved relationship.
John/Llort
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| Llort wrote on Sun, 01 April 2007 23:26 |
Subject: Babylon5 2460
Greetings Little Green Men,
Thanks for your considered &, for my part, fair response. I thank you for allowing me to keep Lynx & I will make arrangements to evacuate Skunk - this will take 3 years since I need to build 2 ships.
I did not quite understand what you were driving at in regard to the Drakh. Until we have better capabilities I think there is little assistance we can give to the Drakh other than advice. OTOH we certainly have no wish to hinder the Drakh in any way. AFAIK the Drakh intend to resist as much as possible but I have no knowledge of any intended exodus.
My 2c re. Rutebaga:
1. Since I know Gaim habs I know that Rutebaga is only a small green.
2. Draft is a big green & very close to the Gaim HW
3. Dilgars are about to colonise Frederick which, strictly speaking, is in Gaim space (since Abdera is the closest HW from Frederick) so there is already effectively an exchange.
4. Gaim also offer Mu to the Martians despite Gaim plans to shortly colonise it. I know only the centres of Martian hab ranges so I could be wrong in estimating that Mu is yellow to Martians (estimate based on 60-click range in each hab & with terraforming ability assumed at +/-7 in each hab).
In any agreement it is essential that both sides act fairly & responsibly. If one side squeezes the other too hard then, even if an agreement is reached, the oppressed side will feel a degree of bitterness. The deal reached has to be fair to avoid that situation.
John/Llort Mi-Ma-Ti
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