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Enemy Ship Designs Thu, 22 March 2007 16:31 Go to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

Messages: 90
Registered: December 2006
Location: Germany
FREE MARS:

# Scout LGF-S Pastures (22kt) FM, fuel pod, rhino, battle speed: 1

# DD LGF-D StarFury (44kt) FM, 2 fuel pods, 2 X-Rays, battle speed: 1

# Priv Scully (80kt) FM, 3 fuel pods, battle speed: 1

# Scout Minera 50 (44 kt) FM, Mine pod 50, battle speed 1

# DD LGF-D Grok U(115kt), FM, fuel pod, battle comp, 3 beta torps

# DD White Star (a.k.a. "Thanks for the next mineral donation at Rutabega) (44 kt), FM, jet, 3 Yaks, battle speed 1 1/4

# Mini Bomber (124 kt), FM, 2 black cat, battle speed 3/4


VORLON:
I´m a bit stumped here, feedback wanted:

# BB (missile) (869 kt). Guess: TGSS, 6 or 7 elec, 0-1 beam deflector, 6+6+4 cap missiles (juggs or jihads? probably jihads, see below) , probably gorilla shields

Why not the customary sappers in the wing slots? I can´t match the weight with croby shields, so I think that´s an indication that he has at least gorilla´s and probably RS. With bears even with RS I think I´d rather put crobys. John suggests Alpha 8, 7 elec and the additional 4 sappers. Makes sense but puts their tech lower than expected so even higher chance of jihads only

# BB (beamer) (377 kt). Guess: Transgalactic (non-ram), 6 elec, overthrusters, 6+6+4 range 3 beams (collodials?), 8 shields

Again I can´t match the weight if I use crobys, but if he has ramscoops, why put the transgalactic instead of the prop 9 scoop? battlespeed 2 instead of 1 3/4 doesn´t seem to be worth it IMHO. Unless he put the IS 10, but then the missile BB wouldn´t "fit". Also note with low prop tech probably only jet and no overthruster so battlespeed 1 3/4


# B-17 bomber (546 kt) Guess: TGSS, 8 M-80, 1 elec, probably jammer

John suggests Alpha 8 plus tank, again sensible.

I can´t match the weight with Cherries, which is good news because that would indicate he doesn´t have W14 yet! Or can someone come up with a cherry-based design?

I thinK Johns suggestions are sound, meaning they don´t have NRSE and probable no IS 10 yet.


EARTH:

# FF FFury (22 kt): FM, 2 cow hides, 3 collodials, battle speed 1


IPSHA:

# DD Killer (100 kt): DLL7, jet, 2 BC, 2 betas, battle speed 1 1/4

#CC First Strike (126 kt): FM, 2 jets, 2 cow hides, 6 collodials, battle speed 1 1/2


[Updated on: Sun, 08 April 2007 19:25] by Moderator


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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Thu, 22 March 2007 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
Registered: August 2005
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# Shadow FF "Eater of Darkness" (33 kt, 77% stealth): Radio Ram Scoop (prop 6), 3 fuel pods, 1 cham-scan (elec 6), battle speed: 1
http://stars.arglos.net/img/shadow-eater-of-darkness.png


# Shadow DD "Sescort" (65kt, 77% stealth): Transgal Scoop, 2 baz, stealth, 2 overthruster, battle sped: 2
http://stars.arglos.net/img/shadow-sescort.png


# Shadow DD "Descort" (106kt, 75% stealth): Transgal Scoop, 2 delta, 2 comp, overthruster, battle sped: 1.5
http://stars.arglos.net/img/shadow-descort.png


# Shadow CC "Raider" (150kt, 91% stealth): Transgal Scoop, 3 super-stealth, energy cap, 2 shadow shield, 4 colloid, battle speed: 1.25
http://stars.arglos.net/img/shadow-raider.png


# Shadow CC "Raider (scrap)" (158kt, 86% stealth): Transgal, 4 col, 2 super-stealth, 2 bear-shields, RNA-scan, battle speed: 1.5

# Vorlon Scout "Smaugarian Peeping Tom": LJ6, fuel pod, rhino-scan, battle speed: 1
http://stars.arglos.net/img/vorlon-smaugarian-peeping-tom.png


# Hyak Scout "Smaugarian" (19kt): mizer, fuel, dna-scanner (bio6-prop3)

# Narn Scout "Scout" (22kt): mizer, fuel pod, rhino-scan, battle speed: 1.5
# Narn MF "Coloniser" (105kt): DDL7, col
# Narn Priv "Pollux" (116kt): DDL7, 2 fuel, col


[Updated on: Tue, 03 April 2007 23:38]

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Fri, 23 March 2007 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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Registered: December 2006
Location: Germany
IPSHA:

Scout Smaugarian Peeping Tom: FM, fuel pod, bat scan (19kt)

-> someone trying to hide the fact that they´re JOAT, even going as far as renaming the ship so it appears to be a starting design... Smile

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Mon, 26 March 2007 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
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SHADOW:

CC 150 kt, Design unknown, spottet at Pervo in 2456

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Mon, 26 March 2007 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

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Skaffen wrote on Fri, 23 March 2007 21:01

IPSHA:

Scout Smaugarian Peeping Tom: FM, fuel pod, bat scan (19kt)

-> someone trying to hide the fact that they´re JOAT, even going as far as renaming the ship so it appears to be a starting design... Smile


What was the reason we consider the Ipsha to be JoAT?

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Mon, 26 March 2007 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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[quote title=Altruist wrote on Mon, 26 March 2007 21:17]
Quote:


What was the reason we consider the Ipsha to be JoAT?



Them telling us straight-up, I quote from an old mail:

Quote:


Gaim: "Die Gaim-HW ist Abdera, wir haben aber auch Kolonien bis runter nach Sadie. Nördlich von uns sitzen die Martians (Pheason), JOAT mit ziemlich zentriertem hab. Wir selbst sind IS (das bleibt nicht lange geheim, da die ersten speed bumps wohl bald auftauchen und unsere Flotten irgendwie immer schwerer werden... Wink )"

Ipsha: "Wir sind JOAT, HW Mongo. Östlich von uns sitzen noch die Hyak, CA, den genauen Heimatplaneten kenne ich noch nicht, ich glaube Deneb. Östlich von denen gibt es noch die Narn, Rasse unbekannt."




He could have been lying of course...

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Mon, 26 March 2007 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Earth also told me that the Ipsha were JOAT early in the game.

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Hyak: b17 Thu, 05 April 2007 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

Messages: 1068
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Heading for Narn HW Putty are 6 Hyak b17-bomber (each 484kt).

The Narn HW has about 67% defenses.

Weight of the Hyak b17 indicates usage of fuel mizer and m70-bombs. If that's correct, bombing would take quite a while or there are more bombers we aren't seeing at the moment.

I am more worried about the Vorlon 6 b17-bombers (546 kt) 47-ly SW of Pickett, accompied by a missile/torp-BB (869k kt). They might support the Hyak but they could also go vs the Pak'ma'ra.
  • Vorlon b17 (546 kt): Alpha 8 engine, 8 m80, fuel pod
  • Hyak b17 (484 kt): mizer, 8 m70, fuel pod
btw: I am mightily impressed that the Vorlons have weap 12 and con 13, altogether they needed to spend more than 95k RP for those 5 tech levels.

Since I found this so impressing I calculated a bit:
With 20% pop growth the Vorlons started phase II with about 820k pop on their HW. Putting 570k pop into LFs and keeping the HW on 250k pop to maximize pop growth for the next 10 years, boosts them to a total of 2.27mio pop. Enough to fill up the HW again to 1mio and have plenty of pop left for colonising and further growth in LFs.

It's realistic to assume at least 15/9/25 factory settings which means from on 2442/3 the Vorlon HW was able to produce 4750 res per year. Enough to get weap 12 and con 13 for phase III.

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Sun, 08 April 2007 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
Commander

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Ships designs as seen by the Narn (info via Llort):

Hyak are RS & ship designs are:
warships
Hipper (112Kt): CC FM,4xCow,6xXray [prob. obsolete]
Hipper II (120Kt): CC FM,2xMJ,2xWolv,6xXray [prob. obsolete]
Hipper III (120Kt): CC FM,2xMJ,2xCow,6xYak
Hipper IV (126Kt): CC FM,2xMJ,2xWolv,6xPB
B-17 [not scanned] (484Kt): B-17 FM,Fuel,8xM70

other ships (excluding obvious like SPT, OA)
HiFi Scout (35Kt): FF FM,2xCow,3xMJ,2xRNA
fPod (127Kt): SFX FM,2xCow,DNA
LF fm (143Kt): LF FM,2xFuel


[Updated on: Sun, 08 April 2007 16:50]

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Sun, 15 April 2007 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
Senior Chief Petty Officer

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Registered: December 2006
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(can´t edit my old post any more)

Vorlons:
# B-17 bomber (546 kt) guess: Alpha 8, 8 M-80, 1 fuel pod

# LF Large Freighter (179 kt): TGD, stealth cloak (55% eff.), battlespeed 1.5

# SFX Super-Fuel Export (161 kt): TGD, battle speed 1.5

# CC Light Escort (172 kt): TGD, 2 caps, 4 collodials, 2 pulsed sappers, 2 crobies, battle speed 1.5

# BB Encounter Ship (869 kt): Alpha 8, 7 BC, 4 pulsed sappers, 16 jihads, 8 bears, battle speed 0.75

# BB Path of Light (377 kt): TGD, 6 caps, MJ, 4 pulsed sappers, 16 collodials, 8 bears, battle speed 1.75


[Updated on: Sun, 15 April 2007 23:52]

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Re: Enemy Ship Designs Sun, 15 April 2007 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Skaffen wrote on Sun, 15 April 2007 12:38

Vorlons:
# B-17 bomber (546 kt) guess: Alpha 8, 8 M-80, 1 elec, probably jammer


I've seen the Vorlon B-17. It is as above but fuel instead of jammer.

The Hyak B-17 design is confirmed.

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Hyak BB 2477 (showing weap16 tech) Wed, 16 May 2007 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
HYAK
BB called "Shieldee"
- AD8
- all weap slots hold the weap15 sapper except for the 4*slot which holds weap16 beams
- elec is all eny caps, same for the slot in the nose
- eny6 shields

mch

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Hyak weap16-BBs Fri, 25 May 2007 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Hyaks long awaited weap16-BBs:

Ark Royal (Hyak)
Weight: 1041kt ; Battle speed: 1.25
The speed of this design at the cost of initiative might make it possible to produce a very effective counter design.
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/hyak-bb-arkroyal.png

Parting of Shadows (Hyak)
Weight: 377kt ; Battle speed: 1.75
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/hyak-bb-partingofshadows.png

Partings (Hyak)
Weight: 353kt ; Battle speed: 1.5
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/hyak-bb-partings.png

Shieldee (Hyak)
Weight: 329kt ; Battle speed: 1.25
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/hyak-bb-shieldee.png

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2482: Ipsha Warships Mon, 28 May 2007 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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First Strike (Ipsha)
Weight: 126kt ; Battle speed: 1.5
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/ipsha-cc-firststrike.png

Destructor (Ipsha)
Weight: 248kt ; Battle speed: 0.75
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/ipsha-cc-destructor.png

Pure Power (Ipsha)
Weight: 961kt ; Battle speed: 0.5
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/ipsha-bb-purepower.png

Exhaustion of Shadows (Ipsha)
Weight: 1013kt ; Battle speed: 0.75
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-pdz4/ipsha-bb-exhaustionofshadows.png

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2482: Hyak/Earth Mon, 28 May 2007 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Hyak and Earth are using the same BB design:
Parting of Shadows (design see above)

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Re: 2482: Hyak/Earth Mon, 28 May 2007 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
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We should seriously think about using a beamer BB with an SBC in the front slot to gain init on their beamers. Depending on how many missile ships they field either 3 caps/3 jammers or 6 caps. At the moment I´m tending towards 3 jammers, quite a few missiles in the air.

The 6 SBC missile ships are a bad design IMHO, either go 4 SBCs/3 jammers and try to surive the first salvo of an all-out SBC design and hit back at the unjammed enemy who´d better bring a lot of chaff along or use 7 SBCs yourself and hope for init. 6 SBC combines the worst of both worlds: easy to out-init and no jamming for the counterattack.

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Re: 2494: Hyak/Ipsha Sun, 22 July 2007 05:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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I'm afraid I don't have a site from which I can upload images. I will send them in an email to you Micha - maybe you can do it for me? Note that the images can also me found in Narn turn (Hyak designs) & Llort turn (Ipsha designs).

Ipsha missile BB (estimate):
1009Kt TGSS, 20 Doom, 7 BSC, 8 Bear (or Gorilla).
i.e. same as Exhaustion of Shadows except for engine, Dooms (& maybe shields).

Hyak Range 2 BB: "Low Guard":
353Kt TGFS, 20 Disrupter, 6 EC, 1 BSC, 8 Bear.
This is a worrying design because it not only fires before the Zaidzev but also before the IA missile BB discussed last year!
(init = 20 v 19).


http://home.scarlet.be/ert/stars/download/Hyak_Low_Guard.gif

Ipsha B-52: "Scorched Earth":
602Kt TGSS, 3 Cherry, 6 LBU-74, 2 Bear, 2 OT.
The philosophy here is cleary to get out of base range quickly (Battle Speed=2.25). This will work well v beams tho Jug missiles can still reach if starting no more than 3 spots away. Because these are shielded they will, however, be tough to kill.
These B-52s are still a lot more attractive than FF chaff but close compared to scout chaff.

http://home.scarlet.be/ert/stars/download/Ipsha_Scorched_Earth.gif

Hyak B-52: "B-52 Hab":
251Kt TGFS, 16 Hush-a-Boom, 2 Bear, 2 J20.
A differing philiosophy here. The HaB uses a lot less Bor so, with jamming, attractiveness is quite close compared to FF chaff - so much so that tech levels, particularly Con & # IA computers can change it. Attractiveness for the bomber tends to rise as Con does, as does # IA computers. I estimate that 6 BSC should keep the bomber more attractive than FF chaff. Con level 18+ should also keep the bombers more attractive with 4+ IA BSC. Of course, scout chaff will always be more attractive. These too are shielded & thus hard to kill but can be hit from a base mounted beam if starting only 2 spaces away.

http://home.scarlet.be/ert/stars/download/Hyak_B52_Hab.gif

I have prepared an attractiveness sheet for each VA (& IA for that matter) member. Let me know if you want it.

{edit: uploaded pix}


[Updated on: Sun, 22 July 2007 10:30]

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Re: 2494: Hyak/Ipsha Sun, 22 July 2007 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
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That Low Guard is interesting but might easily be counter-designed. The speed is horrible, lead duck approach to warfare.

Of course it doesn´t matter against our range 2 beamers but even our out-initted missile BB will get 4 shots!

I´d say let´s not worry too much yet and see what numbers they are building of that ship. If it turns our to be their main design and they go for huge numbers (> current PoS in any case) we´ll do a counter-design, if it´s only stopgap before they get W22 and go for that as a main beamber BB we´ll stick to range 2.

Possible counter-designs:

-range 2 with more comps

-fast range 3 (maybe even CC). 12 Heavy Blasters would be only 12 kt lighter, a bit risky as it could move into range on turn one if the random factor strikes against it.

-Optional: heavy BB with armor that moves 2 instead of 2.25: that way no move into range on turn 1 and then the move 2 should hopefully make it stay out of range even if heavier against the move 1s that ship makes on turn 2-4. OK, just tested it, doesn´t work, the lighter ship closes in so it´d have to be lighter. Sad

-out of the box alternative: BB or CC with range 1 (w18) or even range 0 (w13) weapons. That would only work with crowding though.

-Missiles will always work though, except for chaff of course... Wink


[Updated on: Sun, 22 July 2007 09:42]

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Re: 2494: Hyak/Ipsha Sun, 22 July 2007 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Skaffen wrote on Sun, 22 July 2007 09:30

That Low Guard is interesting but might easily be counter-designed. The speed is horrible, lead duck approach to warfare.

Possible counter-designs:

-range 2 with more comps

-fast range 3 (maybe even CC). 12 Heavy Blasters would be only 12 kt lighter, a bit risky as it could move into range on turn one if the random factor strikes against it.

-Optional: heavy BB with armor that moves 2 instead of 2.25: that way no move into range on turn 1 and then the move 2 should hopefully make it stay out of range even if heavier against the move 1s that ship makes on turn 2-4. OK, just tested it, doesn´t work, the lighter ship closes in so it´d have to be lighter. Sad

-out of the box alternative: BB or CC with range 1 (w18) or even range 0 (w13) weapons. That would only work with crowding though.

-Missiles will always work though, except for chaff of course... Wink

I thought about the lighter range 3 ship & also the Range 1 alternative (which overcomes the init problem if we added the BSC too + lighter weapon). I have tested neither but either might be a possibility. If we were primarily fighting range 2 ships then the range 1 should work but not against range 3.

IMO range 0 would be useless since the weapons are heavy & even with a speed of 2.25 we'd never catch them. Range o weapons can work OK as base killer (particularly v ARs) but are otherwise not very useful.

I also think that range <3 CCs would be a bad idea because, tho I've not tested those either, I think we'd lose too many against the Low Guard. A range 3 CC might work OK v range 2 BBs - lighter with greater range so should usually get a few shots in before they corner us.

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2497: new Hyak BBs Thu, 02 August 2007 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Hyak's 3rd generation BBs

Hyak Shieldee II
weight: 331 kt ; battle speed: 1.5
2 mega disruptors (weap22), 18 syncro saps
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-qrt/hyak-shieldee-2.jpg

They might be waiting for weap24 to update their missile-BBs.

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Re: 2497: new Hyak BBs Thu, 02 August 2007 16:16 Go to previous message
Micha

 

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Registered: November 2002
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Altruist wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 21:45

They might be waiting for weap24 to update their missile-BBs.

And they (Vorlons) probably already have it, Hyak mentioned the Vorlons having weap22 (or close) some year ago ... and Vorlon most likely doesn't build a single warship ...
Shall I try to see if I can get that info from Hyak? Or do you rather not want to know? Smile

mch

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