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Re: 2492 - Attacking Abel ASAP? - Dog House Mon, 16 July 2007 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Order for a gate at Dog House has been placed this turn. Asked Steve to let the fleet head to Verdi.

mch

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Re: 2492 - Attacking Abel ASAP? - cloaked galleons Mon, 16 July 2007 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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AlexTheGreat wrote on Sun, 15 July 2007 01:58

(any chance of a few 96% cloaked Galleons?)

I thougth there was some concensus that those were not really worth it ... tachyons and all ...

Have build some 97% cloaked ones. Wink

mch

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Re: 2494 - Attacking Abel ASAP? - cloaked galleons/Gates Tue, 24 July 2007 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Micha wrote on Mon, 16 July 2007 09:12

AlexTheGreat wrote on Sun, 15 July 2007 01:58

(any chance of a few 96% cloaked Galleons?)

I thougth there was some concensus that those were not really worth it ... tachyons and all ...

Have build some 97% cloaked ones. Wink

mch


I think we might have said that but I just thought it might be useful to get a look at the Abel/Squidcakes area (make sure that a gate exists & get a logistics report).

Gaim already know this but I forgot to mention that Steve will have a gate fleet at Hoover in 2 years. We will issue instruction to build a gate at Shannon when the time is right.

Shannon has 88 factories so Steve estimates that the gate will take only one year upon arrival.


[Updated on: Wed, 25 July 2007 20:11]

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Re: 2492 - Attacking Abel ASAP? - cloaked galleons Wed, 25 July 2007 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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AlexTheGreat wrote on Wed, 25 July 2007 05:47

Gaim already know this but I forgot to mention that Steve will have a gate fleet at Hoover in 2 years. We will issue instruction to build a gate at Shannon when the time is right.

Shannon has 88 factories so Steve estimates that the gate will take only one year upon arrival.



Gate Race will arrive at Dog House in 4 years. There will be around 60 factories at that time ... Gate done in 2 years?

mch

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Re: 2492 - Attacking Abel ASAP? Thu, 26 July 2007 03:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Registered: November 2002
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AlexTheGreat wrote on Sun, 15 July 2007 01:58

If we can defeat the VA then I think we would be favourites v the Shadows tho I'm still not sure what happens with the VA alliance if Abel is "orbited" - clearly the Vorlons are defeated according to the rules but can they still attack us, etc.? I'm assuming that the VA members are then independant & are free to either remain so or join us (but not share in victory).


We could take out the Shadow HW in the same turn. Problem solved. Nothing to worry about what the remaining members of the VA should/could do since the game would be OVER.
Very Happy

mch

--

Shadows don't have us set to friend, if they had there already would be a pak'ma'ra warfleet on it's way to eridicate the buggers.
Some of you might have it easier. Say it's a defense fleet and whack their HW.

pak'ma'ra

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 Sun, 29 July 2007 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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I think it's important to properly plan & co-ordinate the attack against Abel. Thus, I have put some thought into it & I will put a proposal.

Part 1 deals with the preparation, timing, gating to Squidcakes, first step towards Abel & reinforcements/Squidcakes garrison.

Part 2 will deal with the journey to Abel & the assault on Abel. I have not yet fleshed that out yet.

A. PREPARATION

1. Ship requirements, builder & Operator:
Ship ....... # Req ... Builder .............. Operator
Zaidzev ...... 400 ... Gaim,Pak,SPOO ........ Builder/Combine at Squidcakes (TBA)
Vladimir ...... 80+ .. Gaim,Pak,SPOO ........ Builder/Combine at Squidcakes (TBA)
Spartacus ..... 50+ ., Llort ................ Llort
BB 12xJugg .... 60+? . Pak, others? ......... Builder?
Red Pirates . 1200+ .. Drakh (700?), others . Pak (SPOO if 10 races - see below). Transfer
............................................. before gating (to keep away from enemy beams)
DD Sweepers ... 100 .. Llort ................ Gaim (allows more MF hits)
B-52 Bombers .. 60 ... Gaim ................. As for RPs for the same reason. 20 per year.
M.T.Probe ...... 2 ... Exist ................ Llort with 80K pop (would be nice if pop
............................................. could be transfered since Abel
............................................. is more valuable to SPOO I think
SF Coloniser .. 10 ... Llort ................ Llort
SFX ......... 5-10 each, mainly for repairs . Builder


2. Techs Required for B-52s
Tech .... How
Con15 ... Con14: Shadows provides via W-L in 2 years - Llort passes it on via W-L. Con15:
......... Llort hope to get it from the MT - if not then must be researched (SPOO?).
Elec12 .. Llort should have Elec12 by next year & will transfer via W-L.
Bio12 ... Gaim research Bio9. Llort will have Bio10 next year & will transfer via W-L. Gaim
......... research Bio 11-12.
Gaim Tech ETAs: Bio9 by 2497, Bio10 in 2498, Con14 in 2499, Elec12 in 2500, Con15 by 2502?,
............... Bio12 by 2502.


3. Ship designs:
(i) B-52 Bomber. FM, 12xHush-a-Boom, 4xLBU-74, 2xGorilla, 2xJ20. This design should be quite an effective planet killer & is LESS attractive than Red Pirates v missiles provided they are operated by a race with RS. They are also less attractive than scout chaff (tho more attractive than Red Pirates) v beams. No B-17 bomber design would survive the assault against Abel & probably no B-52 that contains more Bor than the proposed design.
(ii) DD Mine Sweeper. FM, 1xCroby, 2xGattling. These are to be used in fleets of 5 (to minimise damage per ship in a MF hit) & can take 4 MF hits if used in that way (any race).

B. TIMING

Since the B-52s are essential & cannot be queued until 2502 & at least 20 are needed at an approximate cost of 460 res + travel time to Zippy is 2 years (some could be added at Shannon), the departure year from Zippy looks like 2505 unless we leave in 2504 & gate the bombers a year after the war fleet (years in brackets if we want to do that). Therefore:
Gate Race:
Llort order Gate race to move from Hoover to Shannon in 2502 & pop-drop. Gate available in 2504.
Gaim/Llort:
Rendezvous at Zippy in 2505(/04) & gate to Shannon for 2506(/05). More ships can be added at Shannon.
Drakh:
Rendezvous at Shannon in 2506(/05) transfering, say, 10 Red Pirates to Narn if needed (see manipulation below).
Pak/SPOO:
Rendezvous at Dog House in 2506(/05).
Transfering Fleets:
Bombers & chaff to be transfered to Pak (or SPOO if 10-race battle) on arrival to Shannon/Dog House.

C. GATING TO SQUIDCAKES

1. Transfering Fleets upon arrival to Squidcakes (i.e. orders to transfer in same turn as gating)
(a) We need to determine who will operate the main/combined Zaidzev & Vladimir fleet. It seems to me that the priorities for the attack on Abel are:
(i) Kill the Vorlon Base (& ships) at Abel
(ii) Kill the Ipsha fleets (since the Ipsha are the primary missile ship builder)
(iii) Kill the Hyak fleets (maybe some missile ships as well)
I haven't fully analysed that yet.
Enemy beam ships are less of a problem apart from the need to avoid all the chaff being burnt early & keeping the bombers away from them since our main fleet should be big enough to handle whatever they have.

2. Battlegrid Manipulation for Squidcakes
This may change if we can get a scan of Squidcakes but I expect that all VA races will be there in some capacity or another. That assumed we have 3 primary options: 11 races (Narn sets Gate race to Enemy for one turn), 10 races (All IA & SA races) and 9 races (no Narn ships gated). Here are the grid positions:
E=Earth, D=Drakh, V=Vorlon, G=Gaim, L=Llort, H=Hyak, P=Pak, o=Gate, S=SPOO, I=Ipsha, N=Narn

____ 11 Races _________________ 10 Races _________________ 9 Races
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . o . . G . . . ______ . . E . . D . . V . ______ . . . S . . G . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. E . . . . I . H . ______ . . . . . . . . . . ______ . E . . . . . . H .
. . . S . . . . . . ______ . G . . . . . . L . ______ . . . . I . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . H . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. L . . . . N . D . ______ . . . . . . . . . . ______ . L . . . . . . D .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . P . . . . . . S . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . V . . P . . . ______ . . . I . . N . . . ______ . . . V . . P . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .


You may have a different opinion but, after examining the probable matchups, I think I like the 9-race version. This gives Pak a good spot to keep the bombers & chaff away from enemy beam ships but is still close enough to attack the Vorlons (3-spots away) & Ipsha (4-spots away). The down side is that Llort are within 2 spots of Vorlons & 3 spots of both Ipsha & Earth so if they all move that way maybe I would lose my fleet; however, SPOO is close to both Earth & Ipsha so probably not. Also Gaim is only 2-spots from Hyak & 3-spots from Ipsha but Ipsha is not far from anyone which is another good point in our favour.

3. Ships that gate in the assault year
I think it's a good idea to hold some ships until Assault year + 1 to avoid the loss of sensitive ships. I'd suggest that in the assault year:
(a) Send only 600 (half) the chaff.
(b) Send only 20 bombers (NOTE: 20 of the proposed bomber design destroys 4080 installations; LBUs=3600 + HaBs=480).
(c) Hold the M.T. ships (with pop) + SF Colonisers
Everything else gates.

D. FIRST STEP TOWARDS ABEL

It's all about clearing the minefields ASAP. IMO the sweepers need to be hardy. Using fleets of 5 DDs with shielding we can quite happily sweep at warp 10 &, even allowing for warp 10 losses due to engine explosions, plenty of sweepers should reach their destination (of course 10% are lost permanently). Those that don't make their destination do 9-10% damage & the next movement can be at warp 10 again.

E. REINFORCEMENTS / SQUIDCAKES GARRISON

1. Reinforcements
(a) We need to keep sending in warship reinforcements & chaff for at least 3 years after the initial invasion. These ships will also serve to protect additional bombers, etc.
(b) We need to send in 20 more bombers in the year after the invasion &, preferably, 20 more in the following year.
(c) The other support ships (chaff, M.T. ships with pop, etc.) should arrive one year after the invasion.
(d) At lease one SFX needs to be stationed at Squidcakes for each race sending in reinforcements. The gated ships should merge with the SFX for automatic healing of the reinforcements.

2. Squidcakes Garrison
We need to keep the gate open at Squidcakes, not only for reinforcement but also to gate out if necessary. We will need to assess the position at the time but, in general, I think the reinforcements will provide a sufficient garrison tho the incoming 2nd & 3rd wave of bombers will need an escort.

Part 2 will follow in a couple of days but I encourage criticism & discussion about Part 1.



[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2007 03:14]

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 Sun, 29 July 2007 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
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Adding my two cents before you go on:

Minesweepers: given my experiences with FA I strongly recommend using throwaway ships (FF, FM, 1 gattling, optional cheap shield to prevent a similar ship as counter-design for skirmishing) instead of the DD. They dabble as armed chaff that because of the high gattling init might actually get to fire and are much better at sweeping since thereŽs no efficient way to skirmish against them.

Stacks of 20-30 go in and then split up, targeting different 1-2 ly spots around the target world. Impossible to skirmish against and much faster at taking down fields since you can easily send in 30-40 at a world and be sure that some make it to the target area even at warp 8-10 while DD stacks will often be stopped. Since we have so many IS we can think about a minigun version but the sweeping power is much lower whereas a single gattling can take down most fields in a turn or two.

My suggestion is that Llort and maybe Drakh build most of them since they donŽt have the EP to build the standardized BB designs.

Missile BBs: IŽm also building some but because of mineral balance IŽll go for an organic / gorilla combo instead of the fielded kelarium. Here I think stack size is not so important but Spoo can build this one to add if required since they donŽt have FK.

Bombers: I think we need more than that given that at least some of them will probably be shot down. We can also think about at least some LBUs with a low player number (not fully stacked bomber maybe to keep attractiveness down) to take out defenses for the later bombing in the turn.


[Updated on: Sun, 29 July 2007 14:02]

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 Wed, 01 August 2007 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Skaffen wrote on Sun, 29 July 2007 13:26

Adding my two cents before you go on:

Minesweepers: given my experiences with FA I strongly recommend using throwaway ships (FF, FM, 1 gattling, optional cheap shield to prevent a similar ship as counter-design for skirmishing) instead of the DD. They dabble as armed chaff that because of the high gattling init might actually get to fire and are much better at sweeping since thereŽs no efficient way to skirmish against them.

Stacks of 20-30 go in and then split up, targeting different 1-2 ly spots around the target world. Impossible to skirmish against and much faster at taking down fields since you can easily send in 30-40 at a world and be sure that some make it to the target area even at warp 8-10 while DD stacks will often be stopped. Since we have so many IS we can think about a minigun version but the sweeping power is much lower whereas a single gattling can take down most fields in a turn or two.

My suggestion is that Llort and maybe Drakh build most of them since they donŽt have the EP to build the standardized BB designs.


I hear what you're saying re. the disposable FF sweepers but IMO we should use fleets that can take at least 4 hits. Hopefully most of these will survive the drive to Abel. Over a full warp 9 or even warp 10 (note: biggest possible MF size is 97ly) distance enough of these will arrive to completely sweep a standard minefield. Of course sweeping the speed traps are more difficult.

I also like the idea of 2xgattlings because 2 such successful fleets of 5 will sweep the biggest possible MF.

Maybe a compromise is in order as follows:
FM,1xCroby,2xGattling. A fleet of 5 can take 4 hits & those that fail can happly move time & time again and still probably survive the entire journey from Squidcakes to Abel.

The cost is still reasonable (I/B/G/R = 17/42/6/61). I will modify the original strategy to this design. I think that Drakh should build as many RPs as possible so I will build the sweepers. I'll increase the number to 100 sweepers as well.

Quote:

Bombers: I think we need more than that given that at least some of them will probably be shot down. We can also think about at least some LBUs with a low player number (not fully stacked bomber maybe to keep attractiveness down) to take out defenses for the later bombing in the turn.


Yes, I think you're right. I suggest 20 bombers gate in the assault year (if any - probably depends on whether we can get a scan of Squidcakes and, if so, what we see) & a total of 60 (20 per year in case they're lost). The strategy will now reflect that as well.

I think the chances of getting specialist LBU bombers thru are virtually nil even if we only put 8 bombs on them - they are just too attractive. The suggested 12xHaB + 4xLBUs works well though provided the VA beam ships don't get into range & we have enough chaff. 20 such bombers is the equivalent of 15 HaB & 5 LBU-74 bombers, all with full loads, so I think that's fine.


[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2007 03:18]

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 Wed, 01 August 2007 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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FFs with gatlings might actually work better than DDs. We can assume to run into a lot of speedbumps, they will stop anything 99% going faster than warp7. Fleets speeding in minefields are checked in this order: speed-standard-heavy (to all SDs regret), this means their speedbump fields will *protect* our FFs, those will survive a lot until we run out off speedbumps to run into.

Also using mini-bombers might be a good idea. I can imagine that at the gate planet we'll find a few missile boats waiting with orders to kill bombers ... of course if they have beamers as well the chaff-like behaviour of mini-bombers is negated.
We can go for something like mini-bomber + FM + 1 bomb ... not sure what that does for attractiveness ... or we can at least send along *some* of those to act as bomber-chaff with a second chance to bomb should they survive ... or use freighter chaff but those do nothing as addition.

As for mutiple years of gating in bombers: assume the first year no bombers survive if not send enough, the second year maybe a few but that's the same year the gate will go down and never get up ... if VA is smart they have some highest init missile boats sitting close as well to take it out right after we gate in our first ships.

As for con15, I can have that in 2 years, already could have had it but I was trying not to research since it seems nothing was needed from me, so I was "wasting" resources into secondary ships etc trying to avoid also wasting minerals ...

mch

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 Thu, 02 August 2007 07:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Micha wrote on Wed, 01 August 2007 09:49

FFs with gatlings might actually work better than DDs. We can assume to run into a lot of speedbumps, they will stop anything 99% going faster than warp7. Fleets speeding in minefields are checked in this order: speed-standard-heavy (to all SDs regret), this means their speedbump fields will *protect* our FFs, those will survive a lot until we run out off speedbumps to run into.

Fair enough but it is essential that the sweepers are not destroyed as chaff - they are essential for their designated purpose so each FF will need a Croby else they are more attractive than Red Pirates even with standard shielding (one Croby makes them slightly less attractive). How many do you think we need?

Quote:

Also using mini-bombers might be a good idea. I can imagine that at the gate planet we'll find a few missile boats waiting with orders to kill bombers ... of course if they have beamers as well the chaff-like behaviour of mini-bombers is negated.
We can go for something like mini-bomber + FM + 1 bomb ... not sure what that does for attractiveness ... or we can at least send along *some* of those to act as bomber-chaff with a second chance to bomb should they survive ... or use freighter chaff but those do nothing as addition.

A single Hab mini-bomber might work but a single LBU mini-bomber has no chance. The B-52 is the only way a bomber that includes LBUs can survive. If we have chaff along they will protect the bombers. Without LBUs the bombing will take too long.

Quote:

As for mutiple years of gating in bombers: assume the first year no bombers survive if not send enough, the second year maybe a few but that's the same year the gate will go down and never get up ... if VA is smart they have some highest init missile boats sitting close as well to take it out right after we gate in our first ships.

Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it - I guess we won't know until we get a scan or we gate in. Probably best to have all the bombers ready to gate in the 2nd year just in case.

Quote:

As for con15, I can have that in 2 years, already could have had it but I was trying not to research since it seems nothing was needed from me, so I was "wasting" resources into secondary ships etc trying to avoid also wasting minerals ...

Good to know. Let's see what happens next year. Miniaturisation would be useful too.

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Re: mine sweepers Thu, 02 August 2007 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Concerning mine sweepers:
Usually I always rely on DD-minesweepers but this time I had also to keep in mind a very cheap and annoying but easily to counter Hyak minesweeper-design.
Hyak minesweeper "Protector":
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-qrt/hyak-protector.png

Spoo "FF Red Corsair", serving as anti-protector, minesweeper, and scout:
http://stars.arglos.net/games/tmp-bb-qrt/ff-light-corsair.png
cost: 7i, 17b, 3g, 25res


[Updated on: Thu, 02 August 2007 15:39]

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Planetary Tech Exchange between West & East Wed, 08 August 2007 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altruist is currently offline Altruist

 
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Now the SPOOmun Complat has a freighter with 40k colonists in the West at Boethius. The idea was to set up a planet for tech exchange by mutual conquest. This way we have a way to transfere tech between east and west when W/L doesn't work.

Andreas, John, any suggestions which planet we shall use?

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Re: Planetary Tech Exchange between West & East Wed, 08 August 2007 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Altruist wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 07:01

Now the SPOOmun Complat has a freighter with 40k colonists in the West at Boethius. The idea was to set up a planet for tech exchange by mutual conquest. This way we have a way to transfere tech between east and west when W/L doesn't work.

Andreas, John, any suggestions which planet we shall use?

I don't have a red planet any near Boethius. The best bet looks like Dave or Ruby.

Andreas?

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 - TIMING Mon, 13 August 2007 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

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Gate says that Dog House gate is done in 2 turns ...

mch

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 - TIMING Thu, 30 August 2007 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skaffen is currently offline Skaffen

 
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OK,
preliminary go at 2503:

The good news is: I will complete 69 B52s this turn, all of which should be able to reach Zippy in 2506. I didnŽt run any more testbeds but went with a 3 LBU design nevertheless to reduce attractiveness further and make them more fuel efficient. I think survival is more important than some more installations killed, we can improve on that with transfer to other races if they survive the arrival at Squidcakes. If anyone disagrees I can still change the design, itŽll probably lower the number produced by a few since IŽve been pushing queues.

The bad news: Most of them will have one or even two jumps at warp ten to make it in 06. So only around 60 will probably make it though I can supply a few more at Shannon from the Southern planets. Also they will all have to go through space without cloaking, some probably directly to Zippy.

I built around 50 supply lines as well so that they donŽt run out of fuel in space. Some RPs are in the minor queues as well but all-in all I decided to build B52s exclusively wherever possible since IŽm the only one doing it, leaving chaff and sweepers for you. IŽll also bring a smallish approx. 2 Mio orgy in SFs.

I think Llort should bring in more freighter chaff, scout chaff everyone can build and without the bombers everything is lost anyway. (Edit:)
Yes, letŽs assume Abel has around 5K res and we need at least 3 turns to get there, thatŽd be 15 missile BBs alone. More from other places, chaff etc. So my original rough estimate of 400 just wonŽt cut it IŽm afraid. Sad


The way to Abel as I see it:

Gating in everyone at once, blowing up the gate ourselves (optional):
+ fleet and esp. Bombers can move 16 ly towards Abel on the first turn, thus making it a warp 9 and warp 8 journey instead of two warp 9 trips.
+ we decide when the gate goes down
+ faster in the race for Abel

- lower chance of survival of the bombers as weŽre going in blind

Gating in a strikeforce first, bombers on the second turn:

+ another turn to gather bombers so maybe around 50 B52s more, in a pinch we can gate them in directly from Zippy.
+ maybe more warships by other races which could possibly be killed though

- a turn delay in the race.
- maybe total loss of the incoming fleet if they have a spare fleet at one of their gate planets since we canŽt risk too much of an escort as we need the ships for the first wave.

At the moment my suggestion is:
Gating in everyone at once and leaving the gate open for another turn. The second wave will consist of all the warships the East can supply in another turn of building, my bombers plus any chaff and freighter chaff the west can supply. We can still modify it at the final moment of course depending on our scan results but IŽd suggest building according to this schedule. Other ideas? Of course weŽll delay as long as they are still gathering but go in if they already made their move.


Minesweeping, based on Spoo scanning of 2503


-I assume thereŽs also some more standard fields we canŽt see yet plus more speed traps near Abel:

-Field at 1896/1202: Easy to target with some warships at warp 5, group should be strong enough to win a battle against skirmishers based on what we scan in the area and maybe go in double to minimize the chance of being stopped by standards.

-Field at 1876/1160:
I suggest going in with crash sweepers from Drakh and Gaim at Warp 10 straight for Abel (something like 1876/1160 or so). According to the chaff sweeping calculator around 350 chaff are needed to reduce the field far enough to the layers, 420 to sweep all 100 ly. Probably quite a few more due to the overlapping fields I didnŽt include in the calculation that have to be swept twice and the standard fields.

Quite expensive, especially on fleet slots so IŽll start merging fleets this turn and maybe scrapping a bit too. But I think itŽs important to make progress as fast as possible and the chaff that survives the speed trap hits doesnŽt die and can be used for the second leg of the journey. MM from hell but who said itŽd be easy? Wink

So Drakh should come in with as much chaff as possible and I see what I can do as well, plus it might be a good idea to transfer some of the otherŽs chaff to us on the turn of arrival (if they survive that is...) The more conventional sweepers target key points of course but hopefully the turn of crash sweeping will give us a good headstart.

WeŽll also cover the area with as many of our minefields as possible of course, IŽm bringing in at least 50-70 speed traps plus some conventionals.

New edit: Effect of damage:
Ships will come in highly damaged from the gating. This will affect attractiveness. ShouldnŽt matter relatively since itŽs only distance overgating for each sending gate but might shift attractiveness towards eastern or western ships depending on distance.

Idea: we can try to use this damage to our advantage by keeping the chaff fleets separate and without SFX. Maybe the other fleets will get a turn of respite in space which would repair 11% IIRC while the chaff stays damaged. DoesnŽt have to work, if I were the VA IŽd send in some suicide ships just to force combat and prevent damage repair, not to cause more.


[Updated on: Fri, 31 August 2007 05:17]

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2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Tue, 04 September 2007 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 661
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Firstly, I have tested the situ where the VA use default BO (Armed,Any) for missile ships and it appears that standard scout chaff will protect the bombers.

I tested it using the standard battlesim with:
us: "Revenge at Last" B-52s, "Martyr" SF chaff, standard scout chaff & Red Pirates
them: Sapper BBs + 2 Ipsha "Removal of Shadows": (a) One with default BO as above & (b) one with Bombers/freighters,Any BO.

Ipsha (a) attacked standard chaff even after the bombers were sapped.
Ipsha (b) attacked "Martyr" SF chaff even after the bombers were sapped.

I was concerned that full miniaturisation might affect that so I then checked attractiveness for those ships with full miniaturisation & found that attractiveness rankings were the same as now with current tech levels.

So I hope I got that right but it seems that we do not need "Pretty Chaff" (scout with QJ5,X-Ray,RNA)

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Tue, 04 September 2007 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
Lieutenant

Messages: 661
Registered: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
A critical part of the attack at Squidcakes is, of course, battlegrid manipulation.

Could I please have opinions on the best scenario!

I think we need to assume that we will find Vorlon, Hyak & Ipsha ships at Squidcakes. Earth will probably have at least a scout but not necessarily.

Whether the gate is part of the battle depends on whether we feel we should destroy the gate upon arrival. The Gate race can, however, be pseudo-attacked if a race with only an observer (Narn?) attacked using a BO to specifically attack.

Each battlegrid pair is with Earth & without Earth. Here are the battlegid positions:

E=Earth, D=Drakh, V=Vorlon, G=Gaim, L=Llort, H=Hyak, P=Pak, o=Gate, S=SPOO, I=Ipsha, N=Narn


Gate to be destroyed:
___________ 11/10 (no Earth) Races____________
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . o . . G . . . ______ . . D . . V . . G .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. E . . . . I . H . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . S . . . . . . ______ . L . . . . . . H .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . P . . . . .
. L . . . . N . D . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . o . . . . . . S .
. . . V . . P . . . ______ . . . I . . N . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

____ 10 (no Narn)/ 9 (no Earth,Narn) Races____
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . E . . D . . V . ______ . . . S . . L . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . D . . . . . . P .
. G . . . . . . L . ______ . . . . I . . . . .
. . . . H . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . H . . . . . . V .
. P . . . . . . o . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . S . . I . . . ______ . . . G . . o . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

___ 10 (no Drakh)/ 9 (no Earth,Drakh) Races___
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . E . . V . . G . ______ . . . I . . H . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . V . . . . . . o .
. L . . . . . . H . ______ . . . . N . . . . .
. . . . P . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . P . . . . . . G .
. o . . . . . . S . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . I . . N . . . ______ . . . L . . S . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

9 (no Drakh,Narn)/ 8 (no Earth,Drakh,Narn) Races
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . S . . L . . . ______ . . . I . . S . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. V . . . . . . o . ______ . V . . . . . . o .
. . . . I . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. H . . . . . . E . ______ . G . . . . . . P .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . G . . P . . . ______ . . . L . . H . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

Gate NOT to be destroyed:

____________ 10/9 (no Earth) Races____________
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . E . . D . . V . ______ . . . I . . L . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . D . . . . . . P .
. G . . . . . . L . ______ . . . . N . . . . .
. . . . H . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . H . . . . . . V .
. P . . . . . . S . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . I . . N . . . ______ . . . G . . S . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

_____ 9 (no Narn)/ 8 (no Earth,Narn) Races____
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . S . . G . . . ______ . . . I . . S . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. E . . . . . . H . ______ . D . . . . . . P .
. . . . I . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. L . . . . . . D . ______ . V . . . . . . H .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . V . . P . . . ______ . . . G . . L . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

____ 9 (no Drakh)/ 8 (no Earth,Drakh) Races___
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . I . . L . . . ______ . . . N . . I . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. E . . . . . . P . ______ . V . . . . . . S .
. . . . N . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. H . . . . . . V . ______ . G . . . . . . P .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . G . . S . . . ______ . . . L . . H . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .

8 (no Drakh,Narn)/ 7 (no Earth,Drakh,Narn) Races
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . I . . S . . . ______ . V . . . I . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . S .
. E . . . . . . P . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . G . . . . . . . .
. V . . . . . . H . ______ . . . . . . . . P .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . G . . L . . . ______ . . L . . . H . . .
. . . . . . . . . . ______ . . . . . . . . . .



[Updated on: Thu, 06 September 2007 01:30]

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Tue, 04 September 2007 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Messages: 661
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Please express opinions, especially where questions must be answered (coloured orange)

Well, here's how I see it:

PREPARATION

1. Shannon Gate: Expected to deploy in 2506.

2. Ship Designs:
(i) "Revenge at Last" B-52: FM,2xCroby,2xJ20,12xHaB,3xLBU74.
(ii) "Martyr" Small Freighter: FM,RNA.
(iii) "Oliver" DD (sweeper): FM,Croby,1xGG
(iv) "Barricade" Galleon (unattractive ML): FM,4xCroby,2xJ20,1xDNA,3xMD50,5xST20.
(v) "Ampol III"/"Supply Line" (unattractive SFX): FM,2xCroby (Supply Line has Rhino).
Other ships are already in use.

3. Ship Numbers:
Note that numbers stated are extracted from previous statements + your turn files. At this stage the following contingents are expected:

Race .. Zaid Vlad Spart Ides 12Jug 18Jug Olivr RatL Barr CroML Martyr Chaff RedP M.T SupF CroSFX
Drakh .... 0 .. 0 ... 0 .. 0 ... 0 ... 0 ... 0 .. 0 .. 0 ... 0 .... 0 . 331 .. 0 . 0 .. 0 .... 0
Gaim ... 250 . 40 ... 0 .. 0 .. 24 ... 0 ... 0 . 66 .. 0 .. 30? ... 0 ... 0 `250 . 0 .. 0 ... 50
Llort .... 0 . 15 . 110 . 30 ... 6 ... 0 . 240 .. 0 . 10 ... 0 .. 563 ... 0 `792 . 2 .. 2 ... 21
Narn ..... 0 .. 0 ... 0 .. 0 ... 0 ... 0 ... 0 .. 0 .. 0 ... 0 .... 0 ... 0 .. 2 . 0 .. 0 .... 0
Pak .... 161 . 44 .. 77 .. 0 . 102 ... 0 .. 88 .. 0 .. 0 ... 0 .... 0 . 789 .. 0 . 0 .. 0 .... 0
Spoo ... 166 . 29 .. 50 .. 0 ... 0 ... 5 ... 0 .. 0 .. 0 ... 0 .... 0 . 500 .. 0 . 0 .. 0 .... 0
TOTAL .. 577 `128 . 237 . 30 . 132 ... 5 . 328 . 66 . 10 .. 30? . 563 `1545 1044 . 2 .. 2 ... 71


Note: Steve has says he expects Pisces can contruct a gate by 2507. That being so, I have added ships from the Silver/Zucchini area & increased some other numbers made possible by the new gate.

4. Ship Transfers pre-gating
Expected enemy fleets are the driving factor determining what each race should fly.
1. Location of Vorlons: Since the Vorlons are building mainly Big Mutha BBs to date it is important that the IA races near them has either no significant ships or only one significant stack. I see the destruction of the Big Muthas early as a very important goal so probably the former. The following ships must not be near them in order of importance:
(a) Bombers
(b) Chaff (all types)
(c) Sweepers
(d) MLs
(e) SFXs
(f) M.T Probe/Super Freighters
2. Location of Ipsha: The Ipsha are likely to have some MegaD/Synchro BBs but they rather like missile boats so it is likely that they will have the largest fleet of Doom BBs. I see the destruction of those as the next most important goal. IMO the best strategy against them is to:
(a) Ensure that some SF chaff & scout chaff are both in range of missiles but not so close that the chaff gets fried by their beam ships.
(b) An IA race is nearby to (hopefully) destroy their ships in battle round 1 giving them only one shot at our chaff.
3. Location of Hyak: Likely to have predominantly MegaD/Synchro ships including some high-init ones but also a contingent of Doom ships. IMO we need to polish off the Vorlons & Ipsha first so it might be best to try for a position that places them at greater distance compared to the main IA force & take them on in battle round 2 if possible. Of course, as always we need to try for a good position for our more sensitive/specialist ships.
4. Location of Earthlings: Probably insignificant.

Conclusion: IMO it may be best to try for:
(a) Two major IA forces. One single-design range 3 fleet (Spartacus is probably the best choice since they have sappers as well as beams) to take on the Vorlon Big Muthas & one with the rest to initially take on the Ipsha.
(b) a 3rd IA race to fly the more sensitive unarmed ships to hide as much as possible (including the SF Chaff & bombers but excluding armed chaff). Hopefully that means that, since there are no armed ships in that direction the VA will head somewhere else.
(c) a 4th IA race to fly the armed chaff. Ideally (don't know if it's possibly yet since I haven't studied the positions well enough) the position should not too close to any VA race - ideally another IA race is closer than the nearest VA race?
(d) Unarmed ships & chaff should be split into several fleets to maximise the chances of escaping total destruction if they/some get caught & to avoid all chaff moving in the same direction & possibly moving out of missile range or into beam range.

Once we arrive at a battlegrid position decision we can determine the races concerned. As we've mentioned before, spare slots will be important.

Of course, my suggestions above are meant to be an ideal set. I expect that some will not be entirely possible.

GATING TO SQUIDCAKES

1. TIMING
As discussed, planned gating is:
2506: Gaim/Llort gate from Zippy to Shannon.
2507: ALL IA races gate Squidcakes: Pak, Spoo & Narn from Dog House & Gaim, Llort & Drakh from Shanno.

If gate at Squidcakes to be conserved:
2507: Gaim & Llort gate reinforcements from Zippy to Shannon.
2508: ALL IA races gate reinforcements & sensitive reserves to Squidcakes.

2. To destroy or not to destroy the gate, that is the question.
Since the last Pak spy with a realistic chance of scanning Squidcakes hit a minefield last year we are forced to go in blind.

IMO if the VA force at Arnold has left by the time we are ready to gate then we should leave the gate open for a year. As Andreas said, that affords us the chance to gate other ships in 2508, especially some of the more sensitive ships but also some reinforcements.

If, however, the VA fleet is still at Arnold then we have to either bite the bullet or wait. I know that Micha prefers the latter & I'm inclined to agree but I'm not totally convinced - Opinions. Assuming that we do bite the bullet we will, naturally, have to destroy the gate upon arrival. In this case Llort has 3 missile ships that can take down the gate.


3. Ships to hold in reserve if gate not to be destroyed

In this case, IMO we should gate the following in 2508:
(i) All except 25 B-52s.
(ii) Half the FF Croby MLs (Gaim)
(iii) Half the armed chaff (scout chaff & RPs). Note that Llort will have 186 SF Chaff reinforcements in 2508.
(iv) Half the SFX
(v) 80 Sweepers
(vi) M.T.Probes & Super Freighters (Llort)

4. Ensuring a scan
It is essential that Spoo &/or Drakh have surviving penscanners upon arrival. Depending on the scenario we go with that might mean ordering transfers to them in 2507.

5. Other gates
It appears that the VA have operational gates & smaller fleets at Milky Way, Bed Rock & Pi. Should we attack them if we can easily handle the situations there?


SCORING THE GOAL (the journey to Abel)

1. Sweeping
It is important to remember that we need only sweep a corridor & keep it open. Warp 9/10 sweeping will not necessarily be required. The best strategy will probably be seen only upon arrival at Squidcakes.

2. The first step
If the gate is to be destroyed then, as Andreas suggested, we can procede at warp 4 in year 1. If, however, the gate will remain open then it might be better to wait for reinforcements.

3. Mining the Route
The "Barricade" Galleon combo MLs can lay mines between Squidcakes & Abel (laying mines AT Squidcakes is useless since any VA ships that managed to gate there will automatically sweep the MF there). Gaim's FF Croby MLs will likely survive too but the "Tar Pits" have Buckley's (no) chance.

3. What Then?
From there I think it's a matter of "suck it & see". Most likely we will have to adjust our strategy according to our scan results.

The "Crikey, What Now" Scenario

There is, of course, a chance that the gate at Squidcakes has been/will be destroyed by 2507. What a bummer that would be! So what do we do if so? Some options:
1. Attack the VA through the gates at Milky Way, Bed Rock (& knock out Pi)? It's a long way to Abel from those gates but maybe we can just have a bit of fun by eg. wiping out Doris?
2. Try pinging all the planets in the region of Abel that might host a gate?
3. Give up?


THE END - INPUT & Constructive Criticism please


[Updated on: Sun, 09 September 2007 07:22]

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Tue, 04 September 2007 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 07:24

A critical part of the attack at Squidcakes is, of course, battlegrid manipulation.

Could I please have opinions on the best scenario!

I find Llort nowhere in the middle ... I think this is good. Some of our ships rely on not starting too close and be able to retreat on the board. I suggest we transfer all main warships to Llort because of that. And second because John has put so much work into this game, I think he deserves to do some kick ass shooting! Smile

Now, do we each keep a minimal on warships for ourselves? I think it's best to have a less races on the board as possible.
Maybe 2 IA races? One holding all the vlad/zaid, the other holding all the Sparts ... add in my 100 jugger BBs somewhere ... They might fit in with the zaids best to give that side some longer range as well.

As second race I would suggest pak or SPOO, in that order, pak seems to have more chance on ending up close to the Llort fleet. Often next to eachother.

mch

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Re: 2495 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy - part 1 - TIMING Wed, 05 September 2007 03:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Skaffen wrote on Thu, 30 August 2007 13:08

The bad news: Most of them will have one or even two jumps at warp ten to make it in 06. So only around 60 will probably make it though I can supply a few more at Shannon from the Southern planets. Also they will all have to go through space without cloaking, some probably directly to Zippy.


I calculate that you should lose only about 3 bombers due to warp 10? 3xLBU is OK by me. If you have to go thru space just make it look like you're going somewhere else if possible - if a couple of fleets have to go direct then that shouldn't raise alarms.

Quote:

I think Llort should bring in more freighter chaff, scout chaff everyone can build and without the bombers everything is lost anyway. [color=red][b]


Building as many as I can: 509 as it stands but if Steve can get a gate built at Pisces in time then 546.

Quote:

At the moment my suggestion is:
Gating in everyone at once and leaving the gate open for another turn. The second wave will consist of all the warships the East can supply in another turn of building, my bombers plus any chaff and freighter chaff the west can supply. We can still modify it at the final moment of course depending on our scan results but IŽd suggest building according to this schedule. Other ideas? Of course weŽll delay as long as they are still gathering but go in if they already made their move.


I'd prefer the extra turn for sure but not if the VA haven't left Arnold by then. I've queued extra warships, SF chaff & SFXs as reinforcements (19 Spartacus, 7 Vladimir, 186 SF chaff, 6 SFX) - extra scout chaff would be good & I know that Drakh has about 150 reinforcements queued. Some of the sweepers, bombers, etc. should be held back if gate staying - see my strategy paper.

Quote:

Minesweeping, based on Spoo scanning of 2503

-Field at 1876/1160:
I suggest going in with crash sweepers from Drakh and Gaim at Warp 10 straight for Abel (something like 1876/1160 or so). According to the chaff sweeping calculator around 350 chaff are needed to reduce the field far enough to the layers, 420 to sweep all 100 ly. Probably quite a few more due to the overlapping fields I didnŽt include in the calculation that have to be swept twice and the standard fields.

I don't think that crash sweeping is necessary. The MF you mention only needs partial sweeping - enough to clear a passage to the east. Conventional sweepers at warp 7 (& maybe 8 ) should do it. I am producing over 200 sweepers & Pak has more.

Quote:

WeŽll also cover the area with as many of our minefields as possible of course, IŽm bringing in at least 50-70 speed traps plus some conventionals.

I would be flabbergasted if any of the speed traps survive - they will be the very first ships destroyed at attractiveness > 8. Maybe as reinforcements tho (gated in 2508).

Quote:

New edit: Effect of damage:
Idea: we can try to use this damage to our advantage by keeping the chaff fleets separate and without SFX. Maybe the other fleets will get a turn of respite in space which would repair 11% IIRC while the chaff stays damaged.

And a very good idea it is!

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Wed, 05 September 2007 03:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Micha wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 15:33

AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 07:24

A critical part of the attack at Squidcakes is, of course, battlegrid manipulation.

Could I please have opinions on the best scenario!

I find Llort nowhere in the middle ... I think this is good. Some of our ships rely on not starting too close and be able to retreat on the board. I suggest we transfer all main warships to Llort because of that. And second because John has put so much work into this game, I think he deserves to do some kick ass shooting! Smile
mch


I really don't care who flies the big fleet except that it should be someone with RS. I only care what gives us our best shot.

I will regard this as a totally astonishing victory if it happens no matter what the logistics. Besides, my warship contingent is the smallest of the 4 major contributors.

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Wed, 05 September 2007 04:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
AlexTheGreat wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 09:56


I really don't care who flies the big fleet except that it should be someone with RS. I only care what gives us our best shot.

I will regard this as a totally astonishing victory if it happens no matter what the logistics. Besides, my warship contingent is the smallest of the 4 major contributors.


I still stand with my first reason than: Llort seems best fitted, along with pak'ma'ra and nobody else ... Does that work? It means all transfers must take place before gating.

mch


[Updated on: Wed, 05 September 2007 04:54]

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Wed, 05 September 2007 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Huh ... somehow I missed this post at first ... or did you edit it later? ... I was already wondering what you were referring to with orange questions ...

AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 16:59


2. To destroy or not to destroy the gate, that is the question.
Since the last Pak spy with a realistic chance of scanning Squidcakes hit a minefield last year we are forced to go in blind.


Minehit at warp5! ArRgh!!

Quote:

IMO if the VA force at Arnold has left by the time we are ready to gate then we should leave the gate open for a year. As Andreas said, that affords us the chance to gate other ships in 2508, especially some of the more sensitive ships but also some reinforcements.

If, however, the VA fleet is still at Arnold then we have to either bite the bullet or wait. I know that Micha prefers the latter & I'm inclined to agree but I'm not totally convinced - Opinions. Assuming that we do bite the bullet we will, naturally, have to destroy the gate upon arrival. In this case Llort has 3 missile ships that can take down the gate.


Euhm, I think I was preferring the first ... shoot down the gate? Damn so much time between turns! (first time I find that annoying <g>)
Still, destroying the gate or not is something we decide in 2507 if we see a lot of VA ships at gates or if we see a BIG fleet heading for the Shadow HW ...

Quote:

4. Ensuring a scan
It is essential that Spoo &/or Drakh have surviving penscanners upon arrival. Depending on the scenario we go with that might mean ordering transfers to them in 2507.

Yeah, penscanners, have been thinking about that ... will probably build a few armed galleons with penscans next turn.
SPOO only has to have a couple of FF/DDs, so he can handle the sweepers for example, and not take part in any of the later larger battles ...

Quote:

5. Other gates
It appears that the VA have operational gates & smaller fleets at Milky Way, Bed Rock & Pi. Should we attack them if we can easily handle the situations there?


Don't bother with the other gates.

Quote:

There is, of course, a chance that the gate at Squidcakes has been/will be destroyed by 2507. What a bummer that would be! So what do we do if so? Some options:
1. Attack the VA through the gates at Milky Way, Bed Rock (& knock out Pi)? It's a long way to Abel from those gates but maybe we can just have a bit of fun by eg. wiping out Doris?
2. Try pinging all the planets in the region of Abel that might host a gate?
3. Give up?



Game over.
VA will have deployed their strike by then.

mch

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. pak ship numbers Wed, 05 September 2007 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Micha

 

Messages: 2342
Registered: November 2002
Location: Belgium GMT +1
Some updated ship numbers, currently owned+in queue

zaid: 144+17
spart: 71+6
vlad: 35+9
jugger BB: 100+2
scout chaff: 601+188
DD sweepers: 34+54

Also building a few croby SFX unless I'm getting them transferred ... I'll be sending in all available minelayers, don't care if they survive or not, the least they can do is act as chaff. Smile

Those are about the final numbers, any possible addition is for a second wave should that take place, most ships build past this date will not reach the gate in time.

I am NOT building bombers (no HaB) and I'm NOT building freighter chaff.

mch

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Re: 2503 - Attacking Abel. The Strategy (adjusted) Wed, 05 September 2007 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
AlexTheGreat is currently offline AlexTheGreat

 
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Messages: 661
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Micha wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 15:15

Huh ... somehow I missed this post at first ... or did you edit it later? ... I was already wondering what you were referring to with orange questions ...


Edited - you missed the "TO BE CONTINUED" at the end.

Quote:

AlexTheGreat wrote on Tue, 04 September 2007 16:59


If, however, the VA fleet is still at Arnold then we have to either bite the bullet or wait. I know that Micha prefers the latter & I'm inclined to agree but I'm not totally convinced - Opinions. Assuming that we do bite the bullet we will, naturally, have to destroy the gate upon arrival. In this case Llort has 3 missile ships that can take down the gate.

Euhm, I think I was preferring the first ... shoot down the gate? Damn so much time between turns! (first time I find that annoying <g>)
Still, destroying the gate or not is something we decide in 2507 if we see a lot of VA ships at gates or if we see a BIG fleet heading for the Shadow HW ...


Sorry, you did prefer the former - I reworded things & got a bit wrong.

Quote:

Quote:

There is, of course, a chance that the gate at Squidcakes has been/will be destroyed by 2507. What a bummer that would be! So what do we do if so? Some options:
1. Attack the VA through the gates at Milky Way, Bed Rock (& knock out Pi)? It's a long way to Abel from those gates but maybe we can just have a bit of fun by eg. wiping out Doris?
2. Try pinging all the planets in the region of Abel that might host a gate?
3. Give up?



Game over.
VA will have deployed their strike by then.

Probably so unless the Shadows can destroy the bombers or at least seriously slow down the VA. Destroying the bombers is not a complete impossibility with the right suicide ships & crowding.

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