Home » Stars! Clones, Extensions, Modding » FreeStars » Don't Let the Stars Fade Away
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Tue, 08 April 2008 01:46   |
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 Madoushi |
 | Civilian |
Messages: 2
Registered: April 2008
Location: Vancouver | |
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I got through about the first five pages, before I gave in and decided to chip in my two cents.
I first discovered Stars! around 2002, and even though I've only played the 2.7 demo, find it to have far more potential than Master of Orion.
I've never played the full version, indeed, I didn't even know a company in Finland was still selling serial numbers untill I just recently lost my job, so I have been looking for a free alternative.
However, I'm not a programmer or web designer.
Personally, my suggestion would be not to overtly worry about graphics.
Stars! was never about graphics.. it was about gameplay.
If the game plays good, graphics I think, are far less important.
In regards to ships being immobile when out of fuel.. I'm personally not hot on the idea. Perhaps it could be a flaw (or ram scoops could be a race advantage.)
However, if ships can't replenish on their own, fuel needs to be made a resource, and perhaps a Tanker class ship needs to be designed.
One thing I WOULD change is if ram scoops are left, ships should be able to refual at almost any star system, at least at a rate far greater than in open space, as solar wind tends to be far denser around a star.
Personally, I've never played a 4x game multiplayer. I would probably make a poor opponent, though I would not be adverse to a PBEM game.
However, I mostly play single player, and so AI is very important to me. One aspect AI has very rarely handled well is diplomacy.
Emperor of the Fading Suns had a decent system for handling it.
The other thing is, I'm a layidiot. Compiling intimidates me. Having to fiddle with a program is slightly unnerving as well. For me personally, I'd be happiest if I could just download a .zip or .exe and install it, but if given simple, direct instructions, I could probably make due.
In any event, I'll add more once I've read up more, but for now, I believe I will try to take Nova for a test run.
Good work, folks! I hope you keep it up! If you need any help with story ideas or documentation, I can offer my services. 
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Tue, 08 April 2008 03:28 |
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| m.a@stars |
 | Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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Welcome!
| Madoushi wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 07:46 |
I first discovered Stars! around 2002, and even though I've only played the 2.7 demo, find it to have far more potential than Master of Orion.
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You're not alone in that appreciation. 
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I've never played the full version, indeed, I didn't even know a company in Finland was still selling serial numbers untill I just recently lost my job, so I have been looking for a free alternative.
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You can still get a serial number from Ron here. Check this thread: Getting serial numbers 
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Personally, my suggestion would be not to overtly worry about graphics.
Stars! was never about graphics.. it was about gameplay.
If the game plays good, graphics I think, are far less important.
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Indeed. 
| Quote: |
However, if ships can't replenish on their own, fuel needs to be made a resource, and perhaps a Tanker class ship needs to be designed.
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Fuel used to be a "resource" in early versions. Seems it added too much complexity and little gameplay. 
But "Tanker" ships already exist: the "Fuel Transport" and the "Super-Fuel Xport". There's also a fuel-generating part for the IT PRT: the "Anti-matter Generator"
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However, I mostly play single player, and so AI is very important to me. One aspect AI has very rarely handled well is diplomacy.
Emperor of the Fading Suns had a decent system for handling it.
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Can you describe it in some more detail? 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme!  Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Tue, 08 April 2008 05:07 |
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| Madoushi |
| Civilian |
Messages: 2
Registered: April 2008
Location: Vancouver | |
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Empror of the Fading Suns:
http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=367
I think their download link for it might be broken, but it is abandonware, and so shouldn't be too hard to find. (I can send it to anyone interested, it is small enough to e-mail)
I find in many strategy games, even if the amount of 'options' for trade and diplomacy are vast, the computer is fairly basic: if they feel they are in a position of weakness, they will concede almost anything relative to the difference in military or economic strength. However, if they feel they are in a position of strength, they will 'demand' things from you unreasonably, and will attack you mercilessly if you refuse. (Civilization games are notorious for this, up to 4, the last one I played. Also, computer players in Civ have broken levels of production )
EoFS has a system where you can offer up to three things (techs, votes, planets, ships, maps, intel, money) and ask for or demand up to three things in return.
While that alone isn't very revolutionary, war is costly, and while ground forces are fairly easy to manufacture, space faring ships are a huge investment, and gambling them in battle is highly risky. Since the aim of the game is not neccessarily outright conquest, but rather to hold the title of Emperor for ten turns (more on that later), therefore gunpoint diplomacy is less common, while true bartering more frequent.
There are five Noble houses, each played by a human or computer player, and each has five votes. Every few years, a vote is held for the Imperial Regent. Whenever a player votes or pledges their votes for someone, they pledge them all, regardless of how many they have. The Imperial Regent can elect one of the other leaders as a spymaster, one as the Imperial Navy Commander, and one to lead the Stigmata garrison, tasked with contaning a hostile alien race to the planet Stigmata.
Often, when bartering for votes, offering one of those positions if elected is viable.
I guess in summary, my point is, I'd like to see the AI barter, rather than simply threaten or concede. 
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Tue, 08 April 2008 10:41 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| Madoushi wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 11:07 |
Empror of the Fading Suns:
http://www.the-underdogs.info/game.php?id=367
I think their download link for it might be broken, but it is abandonware, and so shouldn't be too hard to find. (I can send it to anyone interested, it is small enough to e-mail)
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That download link is slow but working. I don't know if I'll have enough time to play it, tho. 
Do you know if the patches/mods they mention are worth the trouble? 
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(Civilization games are notorious for this, up to 4, the last one I played. Also, computer players in Civ have broken levels of production )
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The trick is, as always, being ready for the AI's puny attempts at waging war. Civ is primarily a war game, even if other options for winning exist. In fact, I've seen the AI repeatedly beg for a certain tech vital to their economy. There's also the "Reputation" system which tends to hurt those who break their treaties... 
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Since the aim of the game is not neccessarily outright conquest, but rather to hold the title of Emperor for ten turns (more on that later), therefore gunpoint diplomacy is less common, while true bartering more frequent.
...
I guess in summary, my point is, I'd like to see the AI barter, rather than simply threaten or concede.
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"Enhanced" options for more "formal" diplomacy have been suggested, including the sharing of maps, but the AI is not a high priority at the moment (despite what some of us would like)
Who knows what the future may hold. Perhaps in Stars! there'll one day exist other, less bloody ways to victory.
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Mon, 30 June 2008 07:59 |
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| ken-reed wrote on Mon, 30 June 2008 06:59 |
Which edge? Left or Right?
Which part of the races hab setting? Left, centre or right?
Does "clicks" correspond to the percentage of the range? Nova works in percentages.
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There are 100 increments (clicks) in each hab range so yes a click is a 1% movement.
Usually someone will specify a reference point (centre, left or right) & # clicks (modifier) + direction if from centre. If someone simply said "5 clicks from the edge" I would assume it's from the closer edge.
[Updated on: Mon, 30 June 2008 08:06] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away |
Mon, 30 June 2008 21:46 |
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| m.a@stars |
| Commander |
Messages: 2765
Registered: October 2004
Location: Third star to the left | |
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| ken-reed wrote on Mon, 30 June 2008 12:59 |
| Quote: |
BTW, "clicks from edge" is meant to be the number of times you click in the racewizard from "all the way to the edge" to your race's actual hab setting...
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Which edge? Left or Right?
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It's the same for both edges. I meant "the nearest edge"
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Which part of the races hab setting? Left, centre or right?
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I'm not sure what you mean. For a practical example, as well as an accurate map of clicks-to-hab, please see The Hab Calculator by, among others, yours truly.
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Does "clicks" correspond to the percentage of the range? Nova works in percentages.
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Almost but not quite. Stars! works in the range of 0 to 100 clicks, both included, which makes a range of 101. 
So many Stars, so few Missiles!
In space no one can hear you scheme! Report message to a moderator
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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away
