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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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By the way ... I've got the binary install working. It will be on Sourceforge the day after tomorrow (got to get a tooth fixed tomorrow) ... it's going to hurt Sad

Life? Do not talk to me about life! Razz



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NingunOtro is currently offline NingunOtro

 
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64 bit Microsoft problems have been adressed before, have a look at http://starsautohost.org/sahforum/index.php?t=tree&goto= 34184




If we were esteemed intelligent 'enough', they would have contacted us.
If we can not find them, either we are not smart enough, or they are smarter at hiding.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ekolis is currently offline ekolis

 
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ken-reed wrote on Mon, 20 August 2007 00:00

I used to love doing stuff myself. Now I've got old and there just isn't the time. I use the .Net framework to save games and such like. Here is the code:

string turnFileName = ConsoleState.Data.GameFolder + "\\Nova.turn";

FileStream turnFile = new FileStream(turnFileName,FileMode.Create);

Formatter.Serialize(turnFile, GlobalTurn.Data);
turnFile.Close();

Easy!

Ken



Heh, I guess you are using the .NET serialization... oh well! Razz

edit: eh, what the heck, I tried using the Java serialization now and it seems to be working... and another plus is, it doesn't require any external libraries! Very Happy


[Updated on: Mon, 20 August 2007 15:08]




Mr. Flibble says...
Game over, boys!

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 20 August 2007 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cathode is currently offline Cathode

 
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Guys,
I just found this thread... what a cool idea.

After years of not thinking about Stars! I played a game (single player even) and was absolutely glued to it for hours. Then I found this thread via the stars! wiki. I was never great at stars! myself, once the bean-counting started and monster races were discovered I was left behind... but I still had tons of fun playing other beginner to low-intermediate players.

An open source Stars! clone would be awesome, I also love the idea of the game becoming something more.

I was Jeff's graphic designer for the UI of Supernova. I'd be willing to help out with visuals for this project if the need arises (I think some others stepped up as well) I also design and build valid xhtml/CSS websites if that is useful.

Don't let Stars! fade away... Smile
-Ian

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 21 August 2007 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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I've spent today clearing the major bugs. There are tons more but ... they are trivial. Nova is ready to play.

No encyption yet. Folks will just have to trust the people they play with (is that bad?).

Right! I've stuff to sort out (the #### with my teeth for one). But, once I've got that sorted Nova version 0.00000001 is going to hit the world. Have fun!

Ken



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 21 August 2007 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Cathode wrote on Mon, 20 August 2007 21:54

After years of not thinking about Stars! I played a game (single player even) and was absolutely glued to it for hours.


Welcome (back) to the Madhouse! Twisted Evil Cool Very Happy


Quote:

once the bean-counting started and monster races were discovered I was left behind... but I still had tons of fun playing other beginner to low-intermediate players.


You might want to check other threads/forums to see how much things have improved (or not) since. Teleport


Quote:

An open source Stars! clone would be awesome, I also love the idea of the game becoming something more.


While Ken's ball was not the 1st to start rolling, looks like it could be the one to finally achieve the dream. And once we have a reasonable clone of Stars, WoW and Halo and HalfLife and GTA can start trembling! Pirate


Quote:

I was Jeff's graphic designer for the UI of Supernova. I'd be willing to help out with visuals for this project if the need arises (I think some others stepped up as well) I also design and build valid xhtml/CSS websites if that is useful.


That could be very interesting, indeed. Others have volunteered to draw varied artwork, icons, and even sounds, but there's been many ideas for improvement floating around that would belong to the realm of UI/usability, and thar's a different beast... Whip



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sun, 26 August 2007 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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I tried hard to get a "ClickOnce" binary install working with Nova using Visual Studio Express.

No chance. It's just too hard to get multiple programs into the same release (you can do it if you write some macros but that just seemed to hard).

Anyway, gave up and switched to the full Visual Studio 2005(just for the binary install project - everything else still works fine with Express). Took about 30 minutes to do.

The programs aren't turning up where I want them to - and I get no entries in the Start menu. But they seem to run (at least they do when you get the registry settings right - must improve on that with some better instructions.

I'm off to do some reading on the install wizard to try and tidy stuff out but, basically, Nova now has a binary install mechanism. I'll try and get it on SourceForge (or the Nova homepage tomorrow).

Ken

PS, if you haven't looked see the new Vista-type screenshots on the homepage.



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 27 August 2007 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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There is now a Nova binary release on SourceForge. Two points:

It's a bit big. Windows Installer is insisting on installing dotnetFX (at 22MB). Have to look into that one.

The programs get installed and seem to work (alhough I've only tried it on one XP machine so far). However, I've been unable to create any shortcuts (read the stuff about Sage, Orca, etc. but haven't got that bit to work yet).

Oh well, a small step forward. Got odd jobs to do today. I'll start doing a bit more reading and fixing tomorrow.



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 27 August 2007 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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Tried getting rid of this inclusion of the .Net framework in the Nova binaries . From the MS website:

How do I turn off dependency analysis?

Unfortunately, there is no direct way to turn off dependency-analysis searching and resolution.

Thank you for the extra 22MB download MS!

Ken



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 27 August 2007 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ekolis is currently offline ekolis

 
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I have never had the .NET framework include itself (forcefully or not) in any application I've developed using it - what kind of installer generator are you using? The standard MSI builder that comes with Visual Studio shouldn't be doing that... and if it is, you don't have to actually distribute the dotnetfx.exe application - if you try to run an MSI and don't have .NET installed, I believe the MSI tells you that you need to download the framework. So next release, just delete the DotNetFX folder out of Release before you zip it up, if you can't figure out how to get it from appearing there in the first place... Wink


Mr. Flibble says...
Game over, boys!

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 28 August 2007 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ConstB is currently offline ConstB

 
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consider using WiX (http://wix.sourceforge.net/) for building MSI installs. it simplifies things a lot.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Thu, 30 August 2007 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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ConstB wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 22:43

consider using WiX (http://wix.sourceforge.net/) for building MSI installs. it simplifies things a lot.


Hey! Long time no see, oh fellow spacefaring species! Teleport

Any chance of ever getting more cool algorithms unraveled for the awe & benefit of all? Rolling Eyes



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Thu, 30 August 2007 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ken-reed is currently offline ken-reed

 
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I've had a bit of a hard time just recently. All sorted now.

But, I've a pig of a cold just now (life? don't talk to me about life! ... Douglas Adams quote).

I'm loaded up with "Lemsip" and off to bed. I'll follow up your ideas tomorrow (or, perhaps, the day after). I friend has said getting the first binary install working is a pig .... after that, it's a piece of cake!

Just to say what's happening ... Passwords in the Race Designer have now been turned on. You can now re-examine a race file (as long as it's your's).

I currently have a test game in progress: Hyper-expansion vs Super-stealth. Hyper-expansion is winning.

Basicaly, stealth means you can sneak up on your enemy. But, if he's got a fully armed battleship sitting there ... well, I don't think I need to explain the details Smile



Don't let the Stars! fade away.

http://stars-nova.sourceforge.net

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Fri, 31 August 2007 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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I've been gone a while, nice to come back and see there's an executable binary. Very Happy

(disclaimer: these are notes from the compiled binary)

Does turn generation work? There's no visible interface for it.

Also, the hull editor needs a way to input a value directly for cargo capacity rather than increment/decrement - especially if you're trying to move a privateer from 250kt cargo to 50kt. Also, a way to move ship slots and place them in more varied half-positions rather than the checkerboard grid would be nice. Additionally, it needs a way to modify the allowable items in a ship slot more directly - perhaps instead of the popup you have now, have a dialog off to the side with checkboxes to select what items it can hold and how many. Obviously engines, cargo bays, and base docks should not be combineable with anything else - you'd just set the size - but there's no reason to exclude scanner/bomb/miningbot(4) slots in principle Smile

Tech editor would benefit from a way to add brand new items, change trait restrictions, select if it's a MT item or not, and add (almost) any behavior to (almost) any item - maybe a "new behavior:" select box, where you can say open up a scanner and go to the dialog and select "new behavior: shield" and then you'd get a box to enter shield values, et cetera. I figure terraforming and planetary techs should be excluded, though you could still add new behaviors within the category, ie, a planetary scanner that upgrades defenses, or a terra tech that works on multiple environnent variables with different effectiveness. You would probably need to be able to add orbital abilities to ship sections anyhow in order to create the jump gate, and a mobile mass driver isn't that far-fetched for modding. Also, a way to add properties to ship hulls such as repair and fuel generation. For weapons, a firing effect selector would be nice (beam/torp effect, sound, and color), as well as a damage type selector: choose between beam, torpedo, cap missile, or sapper; OR checkboxes to select, ie: "damages shields" "damages armor" "split shield/armor damage" (if true, half damage to shields and half to armor as torpedoes, if false then damage hits shields first if it damages shields, then goes to armor if it damages armor) "double damage without shields" and "multitargeting" checkboxes. I like the fact that beams can have imperfect accuracy now.

Also, a race trait editor would be awesome. So would a host-defineable planet name list. One thing that would really shine is an ability to select galaxy shape at game creation - the default square, a circle, ring, spiral, or clusters... perhaps some others as well, and sliders to set the number and density of planets (which would determine total galaxy size).

I like the starmap background - can it be customisable?

Hmm, there's no hab immunity checkboxes either. Grrr.

Very Happy


[Updated on: Sat, 01 September 2007 05:29]

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Sun, 02 September 2007 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Metorical is currently offline Metorical

 
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I'm going to keep this short and sweet, I want to help on this project!

I've only skim read the thread as I need to get to bed (in Japan at the moment so the timezone might be a bit off) but I'll have a good long read tomorrow and let you know where I stand and what I can do.

I've wanted/planned to put something like this together for years now but have only recently pulled enough of a skill set together for what I'd really like to do.

Anyway will chat some tomorrow hopefully.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 04 September 2007 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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Also, if a beam has less than 100% accuracy, will it be affected by computers and jammers?
How about a "jammable" checkbox for weapon attributes?


I'm suggesting all this because in my opinion it'd be nice to make the game as flexible as possible to allow for interesting scenario games as well as full-out mods. I found messing with StarEd to be frustrating for two reasons - the inflexibility of the limits on what I could change, and the clumsiness of setting up games with different rules. Apparently all Nova requires for the second is to ship out the rules file to each player on game generation so not only will there not need to be any busywork for the players but the changes will be easily visible. As for the first - it's your code, it's in your hands.




Now... for the kicker, a fully customiseable race traits editor in addition to the tech editor would go a long way to not only allowing modifications to cost and balance issues, but also make things very easy to advance toward a new level. The less you have to hard-code into the game, the more we can tweak as necessary to do all sorts if interesting things with the game and possibly end up with different evolutions of the game that take it far beyond the original.


[Updated on: Tue, 04 September 2007 21:55]

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Thu, 06 September 2007 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ConstB is currently offline ConstB

 
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m.a@stars wrote on Thu, 30 August 2007 21:31

ConstB wrote on Tue, 28 August 2007 22:43

consider using WiX (http://wix.sourceforge.net/) for building MSI installs. it simplifies things a lot.


Hey! Long time no see, oh fellow spacefaring species! Teleport

Any chance of ever getting more cool algorithms unraveled for the awe & benefit of all? Rolling Eyes

Thanks for still remembering me. Smile I'm currently completely off the topic, haven't played stars for years and forgot almost everything about it. Today I'm a Neverwinter Nights fan, sorry. Smile I'm interested in Nova as a developer, not as a gamer.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 10 September 2007 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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ConstB wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 14:28

Thanks for still remembering me. Smile


Thank the neverending interest in the racewizard & habcalc code. Teleport


Quote:

I'm currently completely off the topic, haven't played stars for years and forgot almost everything about it. Today I'm a Neverwinter Nights fan, sorry. Smile I'm interested in Nova as a developer, not as a gamer.


Awww, shame. Razz But you can always come back when you get tired of these other false gods. Pirate



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 10 September 2007 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Wed, 05 September 2007 03:43

Now... for the kicker, a fully customiseable race traits editor in addition to the tech editor would go a long way to not only allowing modifications to cost and balance issues, but also make things very easy to advance toward a new level. The less you have to hard-code into the game, the more we can tweak as necessary to do all sorts if interesting things with the game and possibly end up with different evolutions of the game that take it far beyond the original.


Flexibility is generally harder to code, but that's indeed a worthy route to take, IMHO. Cool Twisted Evil



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 10 September 2007 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 23:20

Also, the hull editor needs a way to input a value directly for cargo capacity rather than increment/decrement - especially if you're trying to move a privateer from 250kt cargo to 50kt. Also, a way to move ship slots and place them in more varied half-positions rather than the checkerboard grid would be nice. Additionally, it needs a way to modify the allowable items in a ship slot more directly - perhaps instead of the popup you have now, have a dialog off to the side with checkboxes to select what items it can hold and how many. Obviously engines, cargo bays, and base docks should not be combineable with anything else - you'd just set the size - but there's no reason to exclude scanner/bomb/miningbot(4) slots in principle Smile


That would be nice, indeed. But "improved" ship hulls would need altered costs and tech reqs, possibly requiring extensive testbedding to ensure game balance is preserved. Not a trivial undertaking, IMHO, even if costs/techs could be assigned "per slot" and their totals combined for the hull. Sherlock Whip

For weapons and other items, things would be the same or even "tighter". How to value each trait of a weapon or a shield? Twisted Evil


Quote:

You would probably need to be able to add orbital abilities to ship sections anyhow in order to create the jump gate, and a mobile mass driver isn't that far-fetched for modding.


The Jump Gate is a "mechanical" item. The Mass Launcher could be another, I guess, so the hull definition itself needn't be "special". Cool

Trouble is, the Jumpgate more-or-less "extends" a capability ships already have, whereas the mobile mass launching is a somewhat different business. Also, would anyone want an expensive mobile cannon that can only shoot at planets, and not minefields, fleets, or wormholes? Confused



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Mon, 10 September 2007 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Coyote is currently offline Coyote

 
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m.a@stars[/email] wrote on Mon, 10 September 2007 08:38]
Coyote wrote on Fri, 31 August 2007 23:20

Also, the hull editor needs a way to input a value directly for cargo capacity rather than increment/decrement - especially if you're trying to move a privateer from 250kt cargo to 50kt. Also, a way to move ship slots and place them in more varied half-positions rather than the checkerboard grid would be nice. Additionally, it needs a way to modify the allowable items in a ship slot more directly - perhaps instead of the popup you have now, have a dialog off to the side with checkboxes to select what items it can hold and how many. Obviously engines, cargo bays, and base docks should not be combineable with anything else - you'd just set the size - but there's no reason to exclude scanner/bomb/miningbot(4) slots in principle Smile


That would be nice, indeed. But "improved" ship hulls would need altered costs and tech reqs, possibly requiring extensive testbedding to ensure game balance is preserved. Not a trivial undertaking, IMHO, even if costs/techs could be assigned "per slot" and their totals combined for the hull. Sherlock Whip

For weapons and other items, things would be the same or even "tighter". How to value each trait of a weapon or a shield? Twisted Evil



I mean in the the tech editor, not in the ship design screen in-game. ROFLMAO

As far as the conventional hull designs, honestly, how much playtesting and balance work do you think the Jeffs actually put in?

I don't see a problem with a game host altering the ship hulls a little to make for a different playing experience, since each player would be able to look at the tech browser.

Quote:

Also, would anyone want an expensive mobile cannon that can only shoot at planets, and not minefields, fleets, or wormholes? Confused


The sick freaks that play PP sure would! Crazy


[Updated on: Mon, 10 September 2007 19:44]

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 11 September 2007 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ConstB is currently offline ConstB

 
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Quote:

Thank the neverending interest in the racewizard & habcalc code.

Actually I have an idea to create a race wizard for Ken Reed's Nova. One available is too buggy to be useful. Unfortunatelly Ken uses BinaryFormatter to store race data so it will take time to reimplement it in C++. And I'm also not sure, maybe I'm just wasting time and Ken will change his mind and start using "old" good XML... Smile

Quite sad that Nova isn't in repository so nobody sees its current development status.

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Tue, 11 September 2007 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ConstB is currently offline ConstB

 
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you know, I actually made it. Smile

kinda crazy reverse engineering of .NET's BinaryFormatter.Deserialize is done enough to parse Nova race files. it actually just dumps race file as it reads it with all excess info that .NET puts in there. if you wander you may download and have a look how much code is needed to read current format of race files from non-.NET environment. and imagine how tricky would it be to save one. Smile I insist it must be an XML! Smile

sources are at http://wapjet.com/tmp/binaryformatter.zip
enjoy Smile

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 12 September 2007 02:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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Coyote wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 01:40

I mean in the the tech editor, not in the ship design screen in-game. ROFLMAO


But any "improved" rules you craft, be they for hulls, items, or techs, is going to have a non-trivial impact in-game. You know how tight things are in terms of balance and counterdesign. Unless you want to create the perfect cookie-cutter that'll win all games... Razz

Quote:

As far as the conventional hull designs, honestly, how much playtesting and balance work do you think the Jeffs actually put in?


Enough to at least make sure not one of them was the "be-all" and "end-all", except possibly the Nubian. Confused

Quote:

Quote:

Also, would anyone want an expensive mobile cannon that can only shoot at planets, and not minefields, fleets, or wormholes? Confused


The sick freaks that play PP sure would! Crazy


Sure, but, would they be competitive enough? Or would they just sink their resources in an expensive toy that didn't win them enough power to be worth it? Silly hair



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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Re: Don't Let the Stars Fade Away Wed, 12 September 2007 02:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
m.a@stars is currently offline m.a@stars

 
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ConstB wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 19:55

kinda crazy reverse engineering of .NET's BinaryFormatter.Deserialize is done enough to parse Nova race files. it actually just dumps race file as it reads it with all excess info that .NET puts in there. if you wander you may download and have a look how much code is needed to read current format of race files from non-.NET environment. and imagine how tricky would it be to save one. Smile I insist it must be an XML! Smile


Impressive! Not Worthy

Now if only the same could be done for Stars! r files. Deal

Or even for x and m files... Sherlock Whip



So many Stars, so few Missiles!

In space no one can hear you scheme! Deal

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