someone on this forum said in one of the AR threads that if you are going to build cruisers, build cruisers not meata-morphs.
I disagree, meta-morphs work as well or better than cruisers and only cost 21 rescources, can have better sheilds, more aux slots and if you are willing to give up 4 sheild/armour slots you can put missiles/torps in the 8 slot instead sheild/armour. just my 2c worth, what do you guys think.

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I think, therefore I have headaches.

Honestly, I have absolutely no real experience in playing HE or building metamorphs, so the only reason I have for posting a reply is to see my writing on public display and blatantly raising my number of posts so that I can get to a higher rank.

Sorry.

The Crusader

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Crusader wrote on Mon, 17 February 2003 23:30

...so the only reason I have for posting a reply is to see my writing on public display and blatantly raising my number of posts so that I can get to a higher rank.

Bzzt, wrong! Top right of the page, click on the FAQ link and read the General Board section on "What are these military ranks I see assigned to users?"

[Updated on: Tue, 18 February 2003 11:01]

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Ron wrote on Tue, 18 February 2003 09:59

Bzzt, wrong! Top right of the page, click on the FAQ link and read the General Board section on "What are these military ranks I see assigned to users?"

Then I shall revert to my 1st reason for posting. I like to hear myself think out loud. What? Did I say that out loud?

Shame on me.

Well, I don't have Stars! loaded on this system (being as how I am at work and attempting to clean up a GroupWise user move from old to new post office (4 bad from 1,000 moved - not bad), but I can give you a general answer by reviewing the previous posts.

One poster suggested looking at the situation with max tech. Doesn't seem to be a realistic way of looking at the situation. We would be looking at the cruiser/early BB era of a game, not the nubian age, IMHO.

If I had Stars! with me and loaded up, I could even do some testbedding to get some numbers to crunch down and discover which answer is best via simple math, right? Well, sort of. It all falls back on the situation a player discovers himself/herself in. Again, IMHO.

I once played against a HE opponent who caught me by surprise with a BB-killing MM (I wish I could remember the configurations, but I did not save the game info). It did cause some early damage to me, but it was a temp situation that did not alter the flow of the war. He still lost fleets and worlds too rapidly to alter the situation. Seems to me that he might would have done better to continue research to BB tech and met me with those. OFC, his situation may have not permitted him the luxury.

I have no doubt that by adding computers, a MM can be given more initiative than a comparable CC, but can a player always be able to afford the cost in germ? Also, do addition resources and minerals required to create a MM capable of taking on a CC equals a cost-effective solution, when compared to the amount of fighting power purchased? These are typically the kind of questions that I ask myself concerning using utility hulls

[Updated on: Tue, 18 February 2003 14:45]

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freakyboy wrote on Thu, 20 February 2003 03:34

The meta will always be a better beamer than the cruiser. Just slap the 20% capacitor in that general 8 slot and you're laughing all the way to the bank.

Freaky, the benefit you receive from capacitors is capped at a 250% increase in beam efficiency. More than 5 flux capacitors is a waste.

1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 2.49 (249%)

I'll add some additional comments to the ongoing comparisons.

IMO, comparing an early Jihad CC to an early Jihad MM is a bit of a waste of breath. I understand what you're trying to do with an "academic" discussion, but both of these designs are so vulnerable to obsolescence I think most wise players would build them only in very limited numbers. In most games, the "jihad cruiser" era is very short. As soon as Jihad BBs come on the scene, especially with SBCs, both the Jihad cruiser and the Jihad MM (without jamming and limited shields/armor) will be toast.

Of course, every game and every situation calls for different tactics and ship designs, so these are "in general" comments. There are always situations where conventional wisdom flies out the window.

The largest problem with the MM as a beamer is weight. It is almost always heavier than comparable cruisers, so this almost begs for Range 3 beams. Range 3 beams are very costly in minerals and resources, AND they compound the MM's initiaive problem.

There are situations where the MM is a better front-line combat ship, but I believe those are windows of opportunity, and they tend to be brief. This can be useful if you are trying to destroy a large enemy investment with a comparatively lower investment. However, most of these designs are a temporary solution at best designed for a specific combat mission.

Here are some ideas for reasonably early MM designs that are useful throughout the game over the long term:

Sapper MM:
8 X Best Sapper
4 X Capacitor or Flux
Round out the rest of the slots with good engines, jets or overth

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Hetzer wrote on Wed, 19 February 2003 12:05

There seems to be enough interest in HE stuff that I was wondering if an all HE game might have any interest to anyone.

Not me. I've sworn off of HE; As soon as I finish the game I'm playing an HE in, I'm off the HE for good.

And playing an all HE game would take the fun out of being an HE, for me. I like the 3% tri-immune variety, and in a game like this the universe size would likely be medium-sized at best, and someone if not everyone would play a high growth -f design and ruin all my fun. Heck, I'd be dead before it ever got good! My 3% tri-immune needs lots of space and 900 years or so to get going. As for playing the aforementioned HG -f HE, that just doesn't appeal to me.

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zoid wrote on Fri, 21 February 2003 00:56

Don't expect them to do anything either, unless you put some kind of weapon that does actual damage on them. If I remember correctly, a ship equipped with only sapper weapons will not engage. It's been a long time for me, but it seems like I learned that one the hard way - Made a bunch of frigates or something with only pulse sapper weapons and they acted like unarmed ships. (Has anyone tried this lately? I may not remember correctly, or it might have been something I tried with v2.6 or v2.6b that was fixed later.)

I don't know of previous versions, but with i and j patches, your sappers ships ARE warships . They will engage unless your ennemy has no shield to start with.

However, when I get the BB hull, I almost never build sapper only ships. Of course it depends on the situation. I had once an enemy in the north using shielded CC's and another in the south building armor only CC's. So I did not want to build anything useless to fight in the south, especially because my ressources were tight and I would engage 2 ennemies at the same time. I had sapper-only ships to help the jihads-BB in the north, otherwise I would have built BB with a mix of beams (16) and sappers (4 in the rear slots)

FWIW,

YucaF

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